"And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another".

Best Biblical End Times societal generalizations:

2 Timothy 3:1 But understand this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For people will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, slanderers, without self-control, savage, opposed to what is good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, loving pleasure rather than loving God. They will maintain the outward appearance of religion but will have repudiated its power. So avoid people like these.

In the beginning of Revelation are 7 letters to 7 churches, the description of the churches are thought, by many, to be prophetical of Church history from its beginning to future's end. Thus this last church, The Church of Laodicea, would be a description of the Church at the end of the Christian era.. there are a few topics the letter addresses, but I draw attention to the financial topic:

Rev 3:14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write the following:

“This is the solemn pronouncement of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the originator of God’s creation: ‘I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either cold or hot! So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I am going to vomit you out of my mouth!

Because you say, “I am rich and have acquired great wealth, and need nothing,” but do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked, take my advice and buy gold from me refined by fire so you can become rich!

Buy from me white clothing so you can be clothed and your shameful nakedness will not be exposed, and buy eye salve to put on your eyes so you can see!

All those I love, I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent! Listen! I am standing at the door and knocking! If anyone hears my voice and opens the door I will come into his home and share a meal with him, and he with me. I will grant the one who conquers permission to sit with me on my throne, just as I too conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. The one who has an ear had better hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”
---------------------

In what form this poorness comes in is open for debate, it could be metaphorical, it could be spiritual, it could be salvational , or it could be quite literal as in ... you're living in a bubble, and it wont last forever.. better look around and notice the reality before it's too late.

How to make it through the last days; very similar to new age and hopi prophecy teachings:

Timothy 2:21-26

21Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.

22Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart.

23But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels.

24The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged,

25with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,

26and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

Originally posted by heliosprime

America IS a christian nation and has been delivered up for affliction and hate.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

Not a christian nation.

[edit on 14-8-2009 by TheAftermath]

Originally posted by TheAftermath

Originally posted by heliosprime

America IS a christian nation and has been delivered up for affliction and hate.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

Not a christian nation.

[edit on 14-8-2009 by TheAftermath]

The nation is its people not its government

Luckily the percentage of christians in America is dropping anyways.

Religion has no part in government, public policy, or anything else for that matter. It is a private belief system that is best kept to one's self.

The percentage of Americans who call themselves Christians has dropped dramatically over the past two decades, and those who do are increasingly identifying themselves without traditional denomination labels, according to a major study of U.S. religion being released today.

source

Originally posted by TheAftermath
Luckily the percentage of christians in America is dropping anyways.

Religion has no part in government, public policy, or anything else for that matter. It is a private belief system that is best kept to one's self.

The percentage of Americans who call themselves Christians has dropped dramatically over the past two decades, and those who do are increasingly identifying themselves without traditional denomination labels, according to a major study of U.S. religion being released today.

source

Charles Carroll
Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments.

Thomas Jefferson:
“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever.”

James Madison
“We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.”

George Washington:
“The thing that separates the American Christian from every other person on earth is the fact that he would rather die on his feet, than live on his knees!”

Daniel Webster
“There is no nation on earth powerful enough to accomplish our overthrow. Our destruction, should it come at all, will be from another quarter. From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence. I must confess that I do apprehend some danger. I fear that they may place too implicit a confidence in their public servants and fail properly to scrutinize their conduct; that in this way they may be made the dupes of designing men and become the instruments of their own undoing.”

“Hold on, my friends, to the Constitution and to the Republic for which it stands. Miracles do not cluster, and what has happened once in 6000 years, may not happen again. Hold on to the Constitution, for if the American Constitution should fail, there will be anarchy throughout the world.”

“If we abide by the principles taught in the Bible, our country will go on prospering and to prosper; but if we and our posterity neglect its instruction and authority, no man can tell how sudden a catastrophe may overwhelm us and bury all our glory in profound obscurity.”

“If religious books are not widely circulated among the masses in this country, I do not know what is going to become of us as a nation. If truth be not diffused, error will be; If God and His Word are not known and received, the devil and his works will gain the ascendancy, If the evangelical volume does not reach every hamlet, the pages of a corrupt and licentious literature will; If the power of the Gospel is not felt throughout the length and breadth of the land, anarchy and misrule, degradation and misery, corruption and darkness will reign without mitigation or end.”

Noah Webster:
“In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed….No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people.”

“When you become entitled to exercise the right of voting for public officers, let it be impressed on your mind that God commands you to choose for rulers just men who will rule in the fear of God. The preservation of a republican government depends on the faithful discharge of this duty;

“If the citizens neglect their duty and place unprincipled men in office, the government will soon be corrupted; laws will be made not for the public good so much as for the selfish or local purposes;

“Corrupt or incompetent men will be appointed to execute the laws; the public revenues will be squandered on unworthy men; and the rights of the citizens will be violated or disregarded.

“If a republican government fails to secure public prosperity and happiness, it must be because the citizens neglect the divine commands, and elect bad men to make and administer the laws.”

“Corruption of morals is rapid enough in any country without a bounty from government. And…the Chief Magistrate of the United States should be the last man to accelerate its progress.”

I wont bore you with more, including Franklin.

"And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. "

That one is easy "Palin" without a doubt.

Originally posted by contemplator
"And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. "

That one is easy "Palin" without a doubt.

No doubt.. those libertarean-leaning Conservatives are just no good.

Unlike "America is a major Muslim country" Obama.

reply to post by VinceP1974


You are sadly mistaken if you believe one needs religion in order to have morals.

Quite the popular myth perpetrated by the religious folks, but like most of their beliefs, its just untrue.

Originally posted by TheAftermath
reply to post by VinceP1974

 

You are sadly mistaken if you believe one needs religion in order to have morals.

Quite the popular myth perpetrated by the religious folks, but like most of their beliefs, its just untrue.

Autowrench:
I hear that loud and clear, TheAftermath, and you are so right. I am a Wiccan, and my own morals are a lot higher than some Christians I know, and that includes ministers and deacons.
At least I live the life I talk about, and do not hide behind a Bible and a shiny suit of clothes. The religions think they have a lock on morals and goodness, but they do not...and furthermore, some still think that America is a Christian Nation, and I for one would love to see proof of that. Actually, the Freemasons that started this country also hid behind Christianity when it came to public things. Behind the scenes everything is secular as can be, and know this, the ones running everything are not the government one can see.

Originally posted by TheAftermath
reply to post by VinceP1974

 

You are sadly mistaken if you believe one needs religion in order to have morals.

Quite the popular myth perpetrated by the religious folks, but like most of their beliefs, its just untrue.

Your argument is with the people I quoted.

reply to post by mostlyspoons


Hi mostlyspoons/

We need to look at who is in POWER and then you have your answer as to who controls and who says go.
The people will suffer because "When the righteous are in authority,
the people rejoice:but when the wicked beareth rule,
the people mourn" (Prov.29:2) ...This needs to change so that the World unites under Righteousness and not under some Evil unity for a select few who abuse their power for Greed!

ICXC NIKA
helen

Originally posted by TheAftermath

Originally posted by heliosprime

America IS a christian nation and has been delivered up for affliction and hate.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

Not a christian nation.

[edit on 14-8-2009 by TheAftermath]

Yet the myth and ignorance of the constitution endures. This nation is made up of a vast majority of christians. It was founded by christians. As a christian nation it gives power 'to the government" not from the government.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" means that there will be no "state" religion as back in england.

This antireligion attitude is typical of the ignorant who have no understanding of the founders and the true history of this nation.

And very typical of those who "shall be offended" as Christ prophesy predicts.

Originally posted by autowrench
I am a Wiccan, and my own morals are a lot higher than some Christians I know, and that includes ministers and deacons.
At least I live the life I talk about, and do not hide behind a Bible and a shiny suit of clothes. The religions think they have a lock on morals and goodness, but they do not...and furthermore, some still think that America is a Christian Nation, and I for one would love to see proof of that. Actually, the Freemasons that started this country also hid behind Christianity when it came to public things. Behind the scenes everything is secular as can be, and know this, the ones running everything are not the government one can see.

Such complete nonsense......

In 1954, a retired British government worker named Gerald Gardner claimed that he had been initiated into an ancient nature religion based on pre-Christian European paganism
. The practitioners of this religion were operating under the name New Forest Coven. Gardner set about to revive and repopularize this witchcraft religion by writing and publishing a book called "Witchcraft Today," in which he reconstructed and rewrote the fragments of remaining ritual and lore from the New Forest Coven.

He referred to the religion as "witchcraft," and to its adherents as "the Wica." Gardner claimed that this latter term was introduced to him by existing members of the New Forest Coven, and that its use was what keyed him in on the possibility that "the Old Religion still existed." He believed, as do many modern scholars, that this term derived from the Old English term "wicca," which is the etymological predecessor to the modern term "witch."

www.articlesbase.com...

The original source of this "garbage" was Baal worship in babylon after the flood.

A "Wiccan" can be no more "moral" than satan..............

reply to post by heliosprime


Then surely you agree that we are also a White nation right?

Also a female nation, since there are more women than men.

We are a cola drinking nation, since most people drink some sort of cola.

Most people wear shoes, so that makes us a shoe wearing nation.

So, using your logic, we are a white, female, shoe wearing, cola drinking nation right?

The only ignorance here is put forth by those who believe in a giant invisible man.

Remember, there is a reason its called faith and not fact.

Any time you wish to debate constitutional knowledge and law, feel free to start a new thread and I will give you a free education.

[edit on 15-8-2009 by TheAftermath]

Originally posted by TheAftermath
reply to post by heliosprime

 

Then surely you agree that we are also a White nation right?

Also a female nation, since there are more women than men.

We are a cola drinking nation, since most people drink some sort of cola.

Most people wear shoes, so that makes us a shoe wearing nation.

So, using your logic, we are a white, female, shoe wearing, cola drinking nation right?

The only ignorance here is put forth by those who believe in a giant invisible man.

Remember, there is a reason its called faith and not fact.

Any time you wish to debate constitutional knowledge and law, feel free to start a new thread and I will give you a free education.

[edit on 15-8-2009 by TheAftermath]

"We the people" is a fairly strong start.

Early Years
The First Charter of Virginia (granted by King James I, on April 10, 1606)
• We, greatly commending, and graciously accepting of, their Desires for the Furtherance of so noble a Work, which may, by the Providence of Almighty God, hereafter tend to the Glory of his Divine Majesty, in propagating of Christian Religion to such People, as yet live in Darkness and miserable Ignorance of the true Knowledge and Worship of God…
Instructions for the Virginia Colony (1606)
Lastly and chiefly the way to prosper and achieve good success is to make yourselves all of one mind for the good of your country and your own, and to serve and fear God the Giver of all Goodness, for every plantation which our Heavenly Father hath not planted shall be rooted out.

William Bradford
• wrote that they [the Pilgrims] were seeking:
• 1) "a better, and easier place of living”; and that “the children of the group were being drawn away by evil examples into extravagance and dangerous courses [in Holland]“
• 2) “The great hope, and for the propagating and advancing the gospel of the kingdom of Christ in those remote parts of the world"
The Mayflower Compact (authored by William Bradford) 1620 | Signing of the Mayflower painting | Picture of Compact
“Having undertaken, for the glory of God, and advancement of the Christian faith, and honor of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia, do by these presents solemnly and mutually, in the presence of God, and one of another, covenant and combine our selves together…”
______________________________________________________________________

John Adams and John Hancock:
We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus! [April 18, 1775]

John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”
• “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
–John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798

"I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." December 25, 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson

"Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell." [John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, April 19, 1817] |
.......click here to see this quote in its context and to see John Adams' quotes taken OUT of context!


Samuel Adams: | Portrait of Sam Adams | Powerpoint presentation on John, John Quincy, and Sam Adams
“ He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all… Our forefathers opened the Bible to all.” [ "American Independence," August 1, 1776. Speech delivered at the State House in Philadelphia]

“ Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, inculcating in the minds of youth the fear and love of the Deity… and leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system.” [October 4, 1790]

John Quincy Adams:
• “Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]?" “Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity"?
--1837, at the age of 69, when he delivered a Fourth of July speech at Newburyport, Massachusetts.

“The Law given from Sinai [The Ten Commandments] was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code.”
John Quincy Adams. Letters to his son. p. 61

Elias Boudinot: | Portrait of Elias Boudinot
“ Be religiously careful in our choice of all public officers . . . and judge of the tree by its fruits.”

Charles Carroll - signer of the Declaration of Independence | Portrait of Charles Carroll
" Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure...are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments." [Source: To James McHenry on November 4, 1800.]

Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech

“In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?” [Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787]

In Benjamin Franklin's 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach "the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern."

In 1787 when Franklin helped found Benjamin Franklin University, it was dedicated as "a nursery of religion and learning, built on Christ, the Cornerstone."

Alexander Hamilton:
• Hamilton began work with the Rev. James Bayard to form the Christian Constitutional Society to help spread over the world the two things which Hamilton said made America great:
(1) Christianity
(2) a Constitution formed under Christianity.
“The Christian Constitutional Society, its object is first: The support of the Christian religion. Second: The support of the United States.”

On July 12, 1804 at his death, Hamilton said, “I have a tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty, through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a sinner. I look to Him for mercy; pray for me.”

"For my own part, I sincerely esteem it [the Constitution] a system which without the finger of God, never could have been suggested and agreed upon by such a diversity of interests." [1787 after the Constitutional Convention]

"I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man."

John Hancock:
• “In circumstances as dark as these, it becomes us, as Men and Christians, to reflect that whilst every prudent measure should be taken to ward off the impending judgments, …at the same time all confidence must be withheld from the means we use; and reposed only on that God rules in the armies of Heaven, and without His whole blessing, the best human counsels are but foolishness… Resolved; …Thursday the 11th of May…to humble themselves before God under the heavy judgments felt and feared, to confess the sins that have deserved them, to implore the Forgiveness of all our transgressions, and a spirit of repentance and reformation …and a Blessing on the … Union of the American Colonies in Defense of their Rights [for which hitherto we desire to thank Almighty God]…That the people of Great Britain and their rulers may have their eyes opened to discern the things that shall make for the peace of the nation…for the redress of America’s many grievances, the restoration of all her invaded liberties, and their security to the latest generations.
"A Day of Fasting, Humiliation and Prayer, with a total abstinence from labor and recreation. Proclamation on April 15, 1775"

www.eadshome.com...

reply to post by heliosprime


Was there a point to all of that drivel?

A number of the founding fathers also owned slaves.

Does that make us a slave owning nation as well, or do you wish to just pick and choose the beliefs you agree with?

Originally posted by TheAftermath
reply to post by heliosprime

 

Was there a point to all of that drivel?

A number of the founding fathers also owned slaves.

Does that make us a slave owning nation as well, or do you wish to just pick and choose the beliefs you agree with?

So much for the great debate rebuttal.............

Slavery still exists in the world, so by your logic the entire world is a slave planet?

I would not characterize the statements of brilliant founding fathers as "drivel"............but then again your "twist" on the wolrd just inforces the original post about being offended............it would appear americas "existance" offends you. Why?

reply to post by heliosprime


Americans existence doesnt offend me at all. Religion being shoved down the throats of everyone does.

Originally posted by TheAftermath
reply to post by heliosprime

 

Americans existence doesnt offend me at all. Religion being shoved down the throats of everyone does.

The latest data indicate even now 76% of america considers themselves 'christian". That is a fairly established majority. I do not see priest and nuns on the streets clubing children over the head and draging them into church. I do see on every corner anti-god types with hammer and chissle chipping away at the religious freedoms of the 76%.

It is you who is "shoving" hate for god down our throats........it is you who are being "offended" at the use of God and Jesus in the everyday lives of those same 76%.