american censorship regarding nudity...

Mods: I have no idea if this is the correct forum for these issues but please move them to an appropiate spot if needed...

Now i was planning on doing a lenghty post about american censorship regarding nudity because of a thread by Silo13

64 Years ago, Yesterday...

There were some picture from the US Bombing of Hiroshima. Above the picture of a charred body there was a picture of a woman breastfeeding her child. For logical reasons Silo13 censored the part of the picture which might have shown the womans nipple....(the thread might have been taken down over something so insignificant)

Why is it not allowed in America to show a womans nipple?? what is so mysterious about this little piece of hardware that it is not allowed to be shown on TV or pictures or anything else...??
I watch american shows/programs etc on a regular bases and i must say there seems to be no lack of any form of violence in every kind of programming (incl. children programming) but when it comes to a normal piece of the human anatomy it suddenly is regarded as something that may ruin our kids if they were to be exposed to this kind of nudity.

It makes absolutly no freaking sence what so ever...a man can walk around shirtless and show his nipples anytime of the day on national television yet a woman's nipple is something faul and evil and has to covered up...

Could it have something to do with the fear of moral and ethics sliding down the drain if you start allowing this because i have to say you guys crossed that point a long time ago with the exorbitant amount of violence in a lot of your televisionprograms....

I'd rather have my son watch a film with two people making love than two people trying to kill one other

- George Carlin (again...)

Could somebody try to explain to me this hypocritic point of view!!!

Thanks ever so much

Peace

I grew up in America. So when I first moved to Europe I was in for a big surprise, nudity seemed to be everywhere! It was rather disconerting at the time, not because I find nudity offensive, but because I'd never seen it displayed so non chalantly.

In the UK it is not unusual to see full frontal nudity. I remember the first time I saw the show "Embarressing Bodies" Oh dear..full frontal and then some! There was this other show, can't remember what it was called, but basically each week it would highlight one couple who were having sexual difficulties and by highlight, I mean it would show them having sex and then experts would come on and critique them on their techniques. These shows aren't shown on late night TV either!


I'm not sure why the big difference. I'd venture that one reason is that religion is not as ingrained in Europe - yes people go to church, but not nearly as much as Americans do. Religion ( and yes I am generalizing here) just isn't as big of a component in the lives of Europeans as it is in the lives of Americans.

Looking forward to reading what some others think.

Personally I believe the quality of my life has improved by seeing more sex and nudity, but hey that's just me.

I have thought about this too at times. If you have ever watched FX they show bare ends and explicit sex scenes but no nips. I can only guess after having this discussion a few months ago with some co-workers is that maybe the female breast is considered sexual in nature. We asked a bunch of different people about this and they all said the same thing. Most everytime you do see this part of a women in a show or in a movie its sexual in nature, So for me this is how I see it. I do remember watching educational programs where they would show tribes and the naked men and women, but now it's censored. That I dont get. It's not being shown in a sexual way, it's how those people lived their lives.
I personally think the violence on tv is way more out of control than any type of nudity there may be.

Good subject, and I don't understand it either.

There is nothing there that is so different or mysterious to any human. All a person needs to do is strip and look down, so are there going to be bans on the use of mirrors next?

The Human body is a natural and remarkable thing, and yet we fear offending people to the point where the Human body is covered up and made secret.

In the UK we have laws censoring the depiction of genitalia on TV. There is even a law describing the safe "angle" of a male member for depiction on late night TV!

No doubt, some people will be crying out "what about the poor kids!". Well, you worry about your kids, and leave the rest of the world alone.
I would rather my kids grow up with a decent sense of the Human body than be shocked and timid about seeing a boob!

If people are so worried about what their kids see, don't let them watch late night TV! But they shouldn't force controls on the rest of society just to relieve them of their responsibilities as a parent.

There was an interesting discussion here a few months ago where a naked guy at a festival was attacked and tazered by cops. Posters were actually suggesting that it was right to do so because he was in public and there were kids around. Why the hell are parents taking their kids to this kind of event anyway if they are so uptight about nudity?
The guy wasn't aroused, he wasn't performing any lewd acts, he was just a naked guy.

People need to grow up and get over themselves. People need to learn the one rule of "if it harms none, do what you will" and let others follow their own path.

It's a nosey, right-wing, controlling mentality that people have, they believe everyone else should live by their rules and follow their standards. Well, nature and life don't work that way.

I couldn't care less if another person is offended by any nudity, that's their hang up not mine. But I do care when their self-righteous wining starts to affect the lives of others to the point where stupid rules and laws are created to limit freedom.

My guess is that we've got a lot more Fundamentalist Christians here, who form a significant political segment and who are vocal beyond their numbers. These Fundamentalists believe in the Bible when it's convenient. Among other things, there is the prohibition (probably in Leviticus) against displaying the body. In the olden days that probably meant showing your face or anything south of there, but things have changed. Nevertheless, they believe Thou Shalt Not Show Nipple. Or Any Other Naughty Bits.

Remember, we had a Federal official who had a statue covered because it showed a woman's breasts. This statue was in a public building, but he wouldn't tolerate it. Some of these guys are seriously hard-core. Probably that wasn't the best choice of words...

Don't you remember the "wardrobe failure" of Janet Jackson? She appeared to flash a bit of nipple (I'm told that this didn't even happen, that it was actually covered). The US was in an uproar over that. Oh, my God, a nipple during prime time! It's the end of the world, our children are all corrupted. Yadda-yadda-yadda.

I grew up in North America, but I think it is absolutely ridiculous the way Americans associate the body with evil. I never understood it. I was always told that it had something to do with the Puritans who settled the states.

I think Canada is a little less silly but still a bit more prudish than Europe. It is actually legal for a woman to go topless in my city, but you never see it. There is still too much of a social taboo.

Too bad. It wouldn't bother me one bit. Vive la difference!

Originally posted by wayno
I grew up in North America, but I think it is absolutely ridiculous the way Americans associate the body with evil. I never understood it. I was always told that it had something to do with the Puritans who settled the states.

I think Canada is a little less silly but still a bit more prudish than Europe. It is actually legal for a woman to go topless in my city, but you never see it. There is still too much of a social taboo.

Too bad. It wouldn't bother me one bit. Vive la difference!

the reason america is like this is because it has not experienced the brutality of religious persecution as has europe. religious fundimentalists of any sect are inherently dangerous and should be put down. history has shown us what they are capable of. why do these people think that america was such a beacon of freedom back when it was formed. it sure wasn't because they had TOO LITTLE of religion. that's why france and england and italy don't let religious leaders gain much power. they have been through those horrors before and they are not going to let it ihappen again.

"Advanced" behavior regarding this stuff:

Marriage laws are non-existent men and women alike choose their mates and leave them as they please, without offense, jealousy or anger. They multiply in great abundance; pregnant women work to the last minute and give birth almost painlessly; up the next day, they bathe in the river and are as clean and healthy as before giving birth. If they tire of their men, they give themselves abortions with herbs that force stillbirths, covering their shameful parts with leaves or cotton cloth; although on the whole, Indian men and women look upon total nakedness with as much casualness as we look upon a man's head or at his hands.

The Indians, Las Casas says, have no religion, at least no temples. They live in_ large communal bell-shaped buildings, housing up to 600 people at one time ... made of very strong wood and roofed with palm leaves.... They prize bird feathers of various colors, beads made of fishbones, and green and white stones with which they adorn their ears and lips, but they put no value on gold and other precious things. They lack all manner of commerce, neither buying nor selling, and rely exclusively on their natural environment for maintenance. They are extremely generous with their possessions and by the same token covet the possessions of then; friends and expect the same degree of liberality. ...

Howard Zinn - a People's History of United States - 1492-Present
John Zerzan - Against Civilization - Readings and Reflections (1999)
Online Reader - Project Gutenberg


[edit on 7-8-2009 by pai mei]

That may explain why Europeans nowadays do not cow-tail to the religion, but its says nothing about why Americans do?

If they came here to get away from religious tyranny then why do they allow it such control over things? Religions in America may not be as scary (Scientology excepted) but they are way powerful and influential with some astonishing outcomes such as the demonization of the body, but acceptance of violence.

I have thought about this before and wondered why. This is the best theory I can come up with. I believe it all boils down to the age of America. Many countries in Europe are hundreds and even thousands of years older than America. America is the young squirt on the block. America was founded upon by the Quakers and various other religious groups in Europe. In recent past, especially during The Great Depression, fire and brimstone preachers came out of the woodworks. Their influence on America to "repent" caused a deep root of Christian beliefs to be instilled in a large part of society. Many of these Americans who attended the fire and brimstone preaching’s during the Great Depression are still alive today.

Basically, Christian morals do not believe in nudity. America is still deep-rooted in Christian based laws against nudity and various other beliefs. The secular world has not had enough time to snuff out these laws. I do not think that if a State held a public vote on allowing people to walk around in the nude that the State would vote on the birthday suit.

This is my theory and I am not an expert by any means.

I too have wondered this, but must admit, if a woman approaches me with a nipple showing I will have more than a passing interest in her. The Christian Right says nudity is a sin, and it's because of that, no doubt that we don't see bare breasts on TV in America. I guess they think it will lead kids to have sex. Well, I grew up in the '60s, and we just didn't have all of the sexual material we have today. There were a few men's magazines, and a few 8mm underground films, and Playboy, but that was about it. We kids has sex anyway, me with a lady friend of my Mom, who taught me the ways of the world. Taking away photos and videos of sex will not stop kids from doing it, it is a natural thing. A good education is paramount to preparing a kid for sexual adventures, and no amount of repression will stop it. This is why I am an advocate for school based sex education, because most parents will not talk about it with their kids.

reply to post by wayno


You have some excellent points there Wayno

the demonization of the body, but acceptance of violence.

That is exactly what i'm talking about!!!

On a further note: I'm in no way or fashion propagating that people should feel free to roam the streets wearing only their birthday suit. Now i may be from Europe but i have absolutly no intrest in being comfronted with male/female genatalia when i'm out with the kids......but a nipple?????

Come on.....we've been confronted (well, most of us) with a female nipple atleast the first year or so of our lives. How can it be regarded as something nasty and filthy...??

And about that supersticious creep who wanted to cover up a statue....John Ashcroft (i believe??)......didn't he have more of those weird religious twitches.

What a guy!!! And to think he was only the United States Attorney General



Peace

Japanese 'porn' or should that be 'honour' doesn't allow for either the nipple of genitals so I wouldn't be surprised if it was the original editor that edited out the nipple, and besides wince when is America afraid of a little nudity , seeing as they have mmost major Movies showing a little bit of nudity and the worlds largest red light or porn industry?

reply to post by Amaxium


Good theory, thanks

But then what's up with muslim countries???

They are pretty ancient cultures, right??

Those guys will allow only the ankles of a woman to be shown and the rest should be covered up. Isn't that kinda like the same thing but a bit more extreme??

And why is this whole religious BS only limited to women. Why are men allowed to show what ever they want but a woman.......

Does religion in general (christian, muslim) have a problem with women??

Peace

reply to post by DataWraith


Nahhh, Silo13 editted out that nipple himself out of fear that the thread would be taken down because of it.....precautionary measure.

Peace

Where I live (now) nudity is just, well, nudity.
Nothing more than that.
In fact the second to the last page of the newspaper often has a nude woman calendar girl of the day shot - right next to the comics and the word games.

On the beaches, on the televisions, newsstands, billboards, it’s everywhere.

And no one cares. No one.

Now I’ve learned not to care either and the freedom is AMAZING.
I was on the beach the other day and my top fell down exposing my bunnies (ok ok, my breasts)...
Years ago I would have been mortified.
Now, I’m just like, ‘Ooops, you naughty girls get back in there!‘ pulled my suit back up.

It’s natural, healthy, and honestly I much prefer it this way.

I’ve often wondered if making nudity isn’t taboo is one of the biggest reasons there are so many perverts in the USA.

Great subject for a post.

I’d like to add in another bit of info here but let me work on it for a bit - it would too easily spiral off into another subject.

S&F!

peace
gracie


[edit on 7-8-2009 by silo13]

I agree with just about everyone else. In America the Christians have made the nude body into a filthy thing to be covered up and hidden.

There's your answer.

Ugh, I dont understand how even seeing the vagina can be sexual. Americans are ignorant. Its a natural thing, not some hidden taboo, I think they (government and/or media) try to shun it on purpose to suppress certain emotions which lead to individuals that focus or seek sex out more & to increase the rate of rape.

I also wish nudity weren't so taboo here in America, i would like to walk around naked and not get beat up/fined/scolded/w.e its a damn natural thing WE weren't born with clothes on. Also i believe clothes weaken your senses to touch regarding the whole body, im sure hundreds of years ago in a tribal age when we wore near to nothing most of the time the whole body had to have been way more sensitive to even the slightest touch. Why is it important? I'd say human interaction, and to help develop certain psychic abilities.

[edit on 7-8-2009 by 4stral4pprentice]

Originally posted by DataWraith
Japanese 'porn' or should that be 'honour' doesn't allow for either the nipple of genitals so I wouldn't be surprised if it was the original editor that edited out the nipple, and besides wince when is America afraid of a little nudity , seeing as they have mmost major Movies showing a little bit of nudity and the worlds largest red light or porn industry?

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
reply to post by Amaxium

 

Good theory, thanks

But then what's up with muslim countries???

They are pretty ancient cultures, right??

Autowrench:
To answer both questions, Asian porn, in particular Japanese porn is the most sought after porn on the internet. Some is censured, but a lot is not. And, for the second question, Muslim porn is coming out too, there is a lot of Indian/Arab/Turkish porn now that wasn't there a few months ago. How do I know these things? I am a webmaster of an adult website, that's how. Human beings, mostly men but some women will always want to see other humans naked and having sex. This was programmed into our very DNA, so trying to deny it occurs is ignorant. Would it surprise you, dear reader, to know that most adult websites are owned and operated by women?

A man can take off his shirt and walk around most anywhere. Why can't I.

There are many men with breasts larger than mine and I'm a 40C.

I do not want to see any swinging parts below the belt of a man or anything below the belly of a woman.

But come on people a breast is a breast and we all have them.

I am a Christian and believe the scripture concerning modesty was probably mistranslated.