ATS Hunts For The Missing Thunderbird Picture

I FOUND IT!

Or something close to it...

Lost Tbird Pic Found?

Seems the good folks at unexplained-mysteries have researched this as well, back in May, and this article turned up.

reply to post by The Soothsayer


I posted that link before. Apparently it's a hoax.
From the link:

That photo was published in an issue of Strange Magazine 19 in 1998. It’s referred to as the “Ivan Verlaine” photo. It’s a complete hoax. Later, in Strange 20, Mark Chorvinsky showed how the photo was manipulated from “a posed photograph of the capture of the outlaw John Sontag,” in 1892.

Apparently the magazine actually says that it is a hoax. I'm in the process of trying to get access to the last two issues of the magazine, even though apparently the "Thunderbird" series was never finished because the author died.

It's got to be in one of these: www.strangemag.com...
But it can't be the answer, especially if the magazine declared it as a hoax, and if they continued the search in later issues.

[edit on 8/6/2009 by ravenshadow13]

errm, pic ain't in the "Mysteries of the Unexplained" '82 edition.

[edit on 6-8-2009 by Deep Thoughts]

reply to post by ravenshadow13


Whoops! Guess you did... with all the information you posted, it was easy to glance over a couple things.

Oh well. Methinks I'll have to look through my books; have a lot of stuff from the 70s and earlier that deal with stuff like that. Who knows, it may turn up.

The hunt goes on...

reply to post by The Soothsayer


That would be great

Sorry that I posted a lot! I hope it's not really intimidating. I won't post anymore, I'll let everyone else have the pleasure of doing the Google searching.

Edit- I currently have my Facebook and Twitter asking my friends about it. So, who knows. Let's keep searching, shall we?

[edit on 8/6/2009 by ravenshadow13]

If anybody has a google account, try searching google.com/groups. I haven't been on in a few months (and I lost my log-in info ... looking for it now) but they have usenet groups going back to 1981. You might be able to find some leads. I'll look into it later on, myself.

reply to post by theWCH


groups.google.com...

If I had, I probably would have made several copies of it and been more careful
about preserving it for historical purposes. It came into my hands from a friend
who was equally interested in cryptozoology, much like myself. I'm sure it is
out there floating around, it's just a matter of time before it turns up. I
wouldn't be suprised if there is a jpeg of it on the internet somewhere, might
just require a good comprehensive online search.
Best Regards,
Kurt F. Beswick, artist
Oculus Graphic Design
www.oculusdesign.com...

Well, there's one. Still looking.

Here's another who thinks that it's not real: groups.google.com...


This is interesting:
groups.google.com...

Just as a sort of personal postscript to this piece, when I first heard
this photograph described, I immediately flashed to an existing, real,
photo from the same period, that was evidently meant to illustrate the
size of the redwoods in California. In that picture, six men, looking
pretty ragged after chopping down one of those monster trunks, stand
fingertip to fingertip in front of it. According to the Beaman
Collection, who hold the copyrights to the redwood photo, that is one of
the era's most often reprinted images.

I'm going to go find that picture.
I think it's this one: [atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b02151e4f4af.jpg[/atsimg]

Well... that's not right, is it? I don't think that's it... I can't find anything else like it. The Beaman Collection seems to be at a school in Indiana...

More: groups.google.com...



[edit on 8/6/2009 by ravenshadow13]

Not sure if this has been covered:

Most paranormal researchers consider this story to be a good example of Old West
creative writing on the part of the newspaper. But there may be a hint of truth
in it. In 1970, a man named Harry McClure claimed that he knew one of the
cowboys when he was a small boy. The real story, as the cowboy told the youth,
was that the creature they shot at had a wingspan of 20 to 30 feet. They did not
kill the Thunderbird, however, and returned to town only with their fantastic
story.

One more intriguing element to this anecdote is that a photo was supposedly
taken of the great creature, held up with its wings spread by several
townspeople. Remarkably, many people recall seeing this photograph printed in
Fate, National Geographic or Grit magazine, or in some book about the Old West,
but as yet this photo has not been produced.

groups.google.com...

Obviously, the cowboy would be dead, and Harry McClure probably would be as well. Names are good, though. Sometimes they have family members who know crap and are just waiting for somebody to ask them.

Maybe somebody else can try this too, with their own search words: I'm running and advanced search and limiting my search to the time period of "1 Jan 1981 - 1 Jan 2002" and I'm coming up with virtually NOTHING in terms of search results. And most of the results look pretty spammish. This, of course, means nothing other than the fact that the topic wasn't being widely researched until after everybody and their mother was online. We might have to rely on books.

Have we looked into Jim O'Neil? This isn't the photo in question, but it could be interesting.

And while Fortean Times reports the quest for the photographic evidence of the great Thunderbird, a Michigan photographer has, perhaps, captured him in his native element: as a lightning strike from the bowels of thunderclouds in the sky.

"The lightning of a midnight storm has sculptured a Great Bird in the night sky over a beautiful bay on Northern Lake Michigan," says Jim O'Neil. "It was claimed this mystical bird was the connecting link between the Indian People and the Great Spirit --- a great protector, and showed himself upon their landscape, their waters, and their great natural cathedral."

O' Neil says the Thunderbird photo (which he sells in a limited edition), has become the “epitome" of all his work. His Upper Michigan Peninsula Shores Gallery features a series of his photographs of Thunderbird lightning here.

pyramidmesa.com...

Let me tell ya, I've never seen anything close to a Pterosaur in Michigan. I also haven't heard stories. Sounds like he sells fake photos to tourists, if you ask me. I'm going to look into him, though.

Meh ... found him; he's just your typical "Yooper" with a cool picture of lightening. Nothing to see here.

[edit on 6-8-2009 by theWCH]

I recall reading a book as a young boy, back in the '70s, so the "Mysteries of the Unexplained" idea wouldn't work for this one. The book was a hardback that my mother had and it had a number of mysteries from around the world in it along with a few pictures. The "thunderbird" picture didn't really look like any of the ones I've seen so far. It was more like the one with the bird-like creature hanging on a barn or building with a number of hunters standing in front of it. I don't think they had their arms out, though. The bird looked very much like a normal eagle or other bird of prey, not a dinosaur or flying lizard. The bird was large, with a wingspan that almost reached to the eaves of the building, which was wider than the five or six men standing in front of it.

I'll ask my mother if she still has the book somewhere, but I'm not hopeful. She's moved a number of times since then and the book very well may have gotten lost during that time.

I seem to remember that the book's title was something like, "Monsters, Ghost and other stories of the unexplained" or something along those lines but an amazon search has yielded no good hits on it yet.

reply to post by soontide


/mfkr8h

If you look through this search, I searched for books with "Unexplained" in the title before 1980. You could also do one for Monsters, if you remember that was in the title.


Here, this one is for "Monsters" and "Ghosts" in the title before 1980.
/mazvq2


[edit on 8/6/2009 by ravenshadow13]

reply to post by theWCH


It was worth checking out, though.

Somehow I think the timeframe must be earlier for the actual picture. I'd say between 1950 and 1980 is when it was published in things.

Thank you for checking out the Google Groups.

reply to post by ravenshadow13


Yeah, the photo probably vanished before the 'net really took off. I was mostly hoping for names and claims. If we want basic Thunderbird information then Harry McClure might be worth looking into, but I can't find much in the way of real information on him. I mean, there were probably 100's of people named "Harry F. McClure" living the South West during that time period.

With some research topics, those old usenet posts (especially ~1988-2002) can be a nerd's dream come true.


[edit on 7-8-2009 by theWCH]

Anyone remember the movie Jeepers Creepers 2?

When I saw the picture on the first page, all I could think of was the winged demon from the movie:

www.youtube.com...

I remember towards the end or toward the middle (I forget), the winged creature is basically a skeleton hanging inside some kind of a barn. As if it were a trophy, put on display.

Wow. Great thread Raven! It's a lot to take in, and you seem to be moving at break-neck speed! You'd better not get an ATS speeding ticket.

I'll do so lead-searches from my side as soon as I've got a moment to spare. Great work though!

paranormal.about.com...

1st thing that came up under google images - lots of big bird pics there...

reply to post by watchZEITGEISTnow


That one isn't it. There are a few posts and threads about it, it was featured in a magazine as an example of a Thunderbird Hoax.

But thank you!

Edit- I have a feeling that it isn't online, and if it is, it's scanned into a document. I really don't believe that it's sitting around as a JPEG file.

[edit on 8/7/2009 by ravenshadow13]

Is this it? (sorry, haven't gotten the hang of embedding pics yet).




TA



[edit on 7-8-2009 by TheAssociate]

I found that picture in five minutes using google search engien.Its not a photo just a drawing.I liked the photo of the big prehistoric bird found by confenerate soldiers.

Since almost every website that details accounts of the the Thunderbird myth / fable say that the 'original' photograph of the Thunderbird doesnt exist, and was probably never taken - and seems to be a recollection of various images pieced together from people's collective subconscious, and indeed part of the myth itself.

It would seem your hunt for a Thunderbird picture is more of a wild goose chase.

Here's two links that describe the 'legend' and the hunt for the photo, though Im sure you have seen them already.

en.wikipedia.org...

web.archive.org...



[edit on 7-8-2009 by danny-arclight]

I've seen this photo too, and it is possible I have it on a VHS tape.

I have a series of tapes of an 80's mysteries TV series (can't remember it's name off the top of my head) and I'm sure there was an American monsters episode and I'm feeling that it may be where I've seen this picture.

I'll go have a dig through them and see if I can find it (If it is even there).

If it is I'll get a video of the segment with my camera and upload it.

Fingers crossed.