I've just been reading "And The Truth Shall Set You Free" by David Icke...

...and here are some random thoughts.

Christianity as Solar Allegory

First, I was intrigued by the fact that a the section os "Zeitgeist - The Movie" that dealt with Christianity as being a Solar/Zodiacal symbol system was based around an early section in this book. Sorry, CBA to look up his sources.

Just to run you through the idea, if you haven't come across it... JC is the sun, 12 disciples, 12 signs of the zodiac, is born just after the winter solstice, dies and is reborn just after the vernal equinox... the movie in particular gives a huge list of deities but they include Mithras and Osiris and many more.

Now I remember reading in Sir James Frazier's The Golden Bough that Christianity had nicked wholesale the celebration days of older religions, but this put it in a whole new perspective.

The Reptilian Thing

Yes, he goes into the reptilian thing. I'm kind of in limbo on this one.

I can't rule out the possibility. The universe has stuff in it that scientists won't look at.

One logical niggle. If this has been going on for centuries, why don't we have legends about it? I mean, for example, why aren't there were-lizards, not werewolves? If it were that prevalent, surely it would be more prominent in folklore. The closest we can get is vamprism, but it's not a good fit imo.

A Legal Issue

On the other hand, Icke, in this book, as in all the others, makes some serious allegations. I'm not going to repeat them, but they involve child abuse and ritual murder, and you know who the main list of suspect comprises.

Why hasn't he been sued?

Britain's libel laws are notoriously good for litigants with deep pockets. There are plenty of powerful people in there who've been alleged, in the book, to commit serious and quite specific offences, which is actionable as libel in UK common law if untrue.

They wouldn't have to touchthe reptilian thing.

It is odd, I have to say.that somewhere I've heard of GHW Bush hushing up a case somewhere that had some of these allegations - the victim was the plaintiff and her case was quashed IIRC.

The Overarching Conspiracy

This is another aspect of the book that bothers me. Everything is knitted together in this one huge morass of bloodlines and possession from the "lower fourth" dimension, which makes me think of Molesworth book) and inconsistencies in behaviour are excused with the left hand not knowing what the right hand was doing.

How much predictive value such a system provides is open to debate. Icke, however, has been accurate in many of his predictions. This may of course be due more to personal contacts he has cultivated than to any inherent predictive strength in the theory itself.

Gouch Whitlam's removal from power

Here I think he's flat wrong.

Icke's thesis is that Whitlam was making it difficult for mining companies in which sHer Maj had interests to operate in Australia and rape its resources. He was costing her money so she had him removed. She got her Governor-General to remove him from office, which he had powers to do.

Well... it's possible that she had no objections to Whitlam's going, but in his fantastic book The Crimes of Patriots, ex-WSJ staffer Jonathan Kwitney provides what is to me a much more plausible account which is borne out by plenty of external facts.

Whitlam was goiong to refuse to renew the US lease on super-secret base Pine Gap.

The US found out about this, and decided to destabilize the Whitlam government. They had contacts in the Aussie secret service (the initials of which escape me atm) and the CIA were funding plenty of MPs in the right-wing opposition.

Whitlam got a list of those MPs.

He walked into Parliament on Friday afternoon, and said he was going to use Parliamentary privilege to name the Opposition MPs taking Uncle Sam's dollar the following Monday.

There followed some frantic communication between Washington and the Canberra CIA office, and elsewhere, and CIA asset Sir John Kerr, Governor-General of Australia who, as explained above, had the constitutional authority to remove any uppity colonial who had the temerity to displease his masters.

It was that communication that caused a young CIA operative to start selling secrets to the Russians. He got caught but the subsequent court case revealed the substance of the narrative above. It was later the basis for the film The Falcon and the Snowman, Who remembers the falcon now? He kind of had to act all angsty, and pose with a falcon (that was how he got his name apparently. Not by just posing with it, keeping them.) It's kind of like watching whatshisname play grown-up Annekin Skywalker.... But Sean Penn's snowman was a revelation. It's a film I'd recommend.

But I digress.

The point is there's already a very good narrative that provides a far more immediate motivation (Pine Gap and then the impending revelations of just how much the CIA was distorting Aussie politics) and ties it all in to a very specific timeframe.

Anyway, that's enough for the moment. Later.

Interesting stuff, not read the book yet but have a preety good idea on the content with what you have posted now ty.

Now you mentioned the reptillian thing, well if we look it is in plain view really.
take a look at this tour of City of London and the square mile.






Also we do have myths of reptiles and snakes, Saint George and the dragon, also some of the bible stuff of creation and the adam of eve and the snake.

somewhere about is this reptile or snake creatures in symbology.
Also if you type in Lion man carving around 40 thousand years ago into google image, that should come up.
its a carving of a half man half creature that was carved by homo-sap hunter gatherers.

it has been erased mainly the symbology or clues, but some still here.

We have one here in the UK on our coin I think, even though the official line is its a lion, Im not so sure.

The truth may be quite scary, also you will get people jumping on the bandwagon for ulterior motives but the real truth shall set us free.

I just cant get past the David Icke purple tracksuit TV interview looking like a man whose mind had fallen out. Great footballer though.

Originally posted by Sparkey76
Also we do have myths of reptiles and snakes, Saint George and the dragon, also some of the bible stuff of creation and the adam of eve and the snake.

There has been snake symbology around for ages. Icke is the first person I've come across to suggest that all the other meanings attached to that symbology (which also, of course, make sense, as they'd have to do for a good cover story) are not the true meaning.

And as I said, there's no legends of were-lizards. I can't get over feeling that something like that would have become part of the myths and legends going back thousands of years, especially as the further back you go, the more concentrated the bloodlines would have to be. The more concentrated the bloodline, the more sure you're going to get transformations.

UFOs, for example, go back thousands of years. Ever seen any of the Renaissance paintings that clearly depict them in an otherwise unremarkable portrait? Weird. And of course there are plenty of anomalous reports, as gathered by Charles Fort, Jacques Vallee and others.

Yet I don't know a single instance of a human/reptilian legend or story. And snakes can, and do, mean all sorts of things in symbolic systems.

It would be interesting to see if any genetic analysis could be made to differentiate between human and reptilian hybrid DNA. Mind you, considering scientists (them again!) considered 90% of DNA to be "junk" until recently (and I have to say I thought that idea was nonsense when I first heard it many years ago) I don't think they'd know where to start looking if they could stop laughing long enough to even try.

reply to post by chickenbroncitis


Have a look at his interview with Project Camelot.

You're right: his mind had fallen out. In the interview, he explains what happened, and what he did next, which is one of the coolest things I've ever come across.

there's a lot of people coming forward with this cia/govt child abuse stuff - i posted some utube vids about it on another thread. I think its true - wouldnt surprise me at all, given the people we have running the country; and i dont think young kids have the ability to lie about or make this stuff up.

Icke also discusses that in his book, 'alice in wonderland and the world trade centre disaster'. I think all his research into politicians and their machinations and manipulations looks solid and i think all the symbolism is there to see that this illuminati stuff is real too. Look at the hand signals all the 'elected' leaders make - bush, clintons, sarcozy, etc they all make the same hand signals. this cult is worldwide and at the very top of power structures. just his expose on what the bushes have gotten up to is bad enough.

re: the reptilian/alien issue. I think that aliens exist and are on earth. i think there are probably a lot of different races here - maybe one of them is a reptilian one. there is snake/dragon symbology all over the world, that is not open to question. from mexico (snake down the pyramid) to china (dragons everywhere) to bhutan (drak yul - the dragon kings), to japan to asia in general, to england - st george and the dragon - to snakes on the crowns in egypt etc. it is world wide symbology. whether it means they're actual lizards or not i do not know. But i do know the vertical pupils are real as ive seen them. i have heard a legend of one of the roman emperors being seen to shapeshift.

As to which alien race is at the top/in control i dont know. perhaps he is right and it is reptiles. there are also dwarves visiting here (black dwaves of taiwan with magic powers who lived in caves; magician dwarves in mexico and egypt (bes - dwarf god); dwarves in england and new zealand, etc; trolls in norway, ...); giants (nth american legends and skeletons, new zealand race of giants; giants of patagonia; giants in the bible; king og of bashan had a 13 foot bed; fossilized giant in ireland and in nth america; tombe de giganti in sardinia; gigantia in malta; legends of giants building baalbeck and tiwanaku; etc; modern day giants; giants connected with gilgal refaim; epic of gilgamesh = in sumer - the king was a giant and could pick up a lion under one arm; etc.); blue/green skinned race - gods (or demons) shown with blue/green skin in china, bali, indonesia, japan, india, egypt (osiris had green skin), ireland (tuatha de danaan had green skin/modern day witch legends have green skin ...see disney links to secret societies), vampires sometimes shown with blue skin, gods/demons of india sometimes with blue skin/fangs; etc) ..; dropa race of yellow skinned aliens in china; the elongated head race - skulls found in egypt, malta, nazca/paracas (peru), siberia/russia, marquesas islands . for an example look at nefertiti and akhenaton's skulls (he was a 'living god' aka real alien). I think the elongated heads race are a good candidate for our creators and skulls/physical evidence is found worldwide. dont be confused by skull binding explanations. yes, normal people bound their kids heads to IMITIAate their gods. real elongated heads have greater brain capacity by one half than normal human bound heads and look alien too - look at nazca/paracas skulls and nefertiti.
grey/starchild skull in peru.. (another race)....etc.

re: the shapeshifting factor for the lizard aliens of icke. yes i do think there IS a race of aliens with ablity to shapeshift. hence the legends of werewolves, skinwalkers of north american indian legend (read: hunt for the skinwalker) which can also shift into wolves; vampires can shift into wolves/bats; the mexican gods were 'were-jaguars' had the ability to shapeshift into jaguars..etc. whether they could also shift into lizards or were really lizards i dont know. but there is a lot of dragon symbology.

there is ALSO a lot of LION/JAGUAR symbology. look at the car infront of you next time on the road. the lion/dragon has also merged together into a dragon/lion beast in symbology.

personally, i think that on this planet there are one or more alien races that eat humans/drink our blood. Possibly not all the alien races wud do this, but i think a couple might see us as food... well, we eat animals too, should it come as such a surprise that something might eat us?

it might explain some satanic/human sacrifice/blood drinking rituals. think about it - throughout hisotry there has been religions with human sacrifice and blood drinking. phonecians - blood sacrifice of kids; mexican human sacrifice/cannibalism; cannibalism in pacific/human sacrifice; and india (kali -/demon gods) ; cannibalism in indonesia - dyaks (head hunters); also celtic head hunters/human sacrifice - druids; etc... golden woman of russia/blood sacrifice; dare i say, jewish religion -almost sacrifice of son isaac to 'god'; animal sacrifice; (christianity mimics human sacrifice/cannibalims in eating the blood/body of christ, but doesnt advocate it at all); er hittites - blood/animal sacrifice etc. this is not a new phenomena.

So i think people shud pay a bit more attention to illuminati/satanic/ritual sacrifice stories as its not exactly new, so likely to be totally true.


Whether the top race are lizards; i actually think a good candidate for a top alien race on earth (or for one alien race) is vampires. what we call vampires. Demons or gods with fangs - depictions of them can be found in MANY religions. demons in india, china, thailand, bhutan, indonesia, japan, mexico, peru - are all depicted YES, wiht FANGS. and sometimes green/blue skin. often with horns too (which im not sure about, but it is a consisstent depiction). they are often called the devil/or demons. Depictions of gods with FANGS - the most numerous fanged statues can be found in the archaeological park at st augustin colombia.
And in europe of course we've had the vampire legends and stories which also go down into the mediterranean. these vampires look pretty much the same as the fanged demons of religions of other countries all over the planet.

bhutan - drak yul. dragon kings. DRACULA. son of hte dragon. order of the dragon. green and black dragon societies in asia...
vampires drink blood ... interesting in light of all the religions obsessions with blood drinking, cannibalism and ritual sacrifice.

also represented as lions?/jaguars?

[edit

[edit on 18-8-2009 by rapunzel222]

where was i. oh, lion and jaguar thrones. jaguar thrones of mexico. just like the lion thrones of the hittites. gods referred to as jaguars in mexico - were=jaguars (big teeth); gods referred to as lions in europe/mediterranean - 'there are no pacts between lions and men ' achilles (demi god - half alien in other words). 'the lion's share' of the spoils of battle/riches. holden lion symbols on cars everywhere - lion with paw on the globe. lions in asia everywhere. the lion/dragon combined.

now think of the movie twilight. vampires - have strength, speed, sparkly (maybe). like superman a bit. (who wears a BLUE suit incidentally). achilles - great strength and speed in fighting. indian gods that fought in battles moved fast etc. skinwalker legends - fast running creature that roars (like a lion). can swim fast. zeus the god swam the mediterranean. the greek gods were also shapeshifters. zeus took form of bull/eagle/swan etc. the 'shining ones' of the gods. the golden or shining woman in russia who was worshipped. sparkly vampires? or not.

they like the holy of holies to be very DARK. egypt/sumer/greek temples. home of the god is always very dark. 'thou shall not see my face for it shall strike fear into you'. from the bible.

exsanguinations/cattle mutilations. common feature? no blood - all 'sucked out'. vampire carcasses? or not? (ufos/grey aliens were often reported. in one instance hooded figures). also human mutilations and other animal mutilations like cats etc.

parallel with bermuda triangle cases of boats found with all crews missing, and in some cases, blood splatters etc..??? or not. (ufos often implicated re: bermuda triangle cases/or seen by pilots etc/on radar). if not vampires i think its another type of carnivourous alien.. maybe like the predator movie.

black eyed kids. what are they?
(type of alien?)
bacardi symbol of a bat with flames. and flames on roof of their office building.
pirates and vampire connection. pirates connected to rich families. skull and bones club. symbol to ward off vampires in nth america was rearrange bones of body into the skull and bones symbol.

admittedly there are tonnes of holes in these connections, but still.

(witches (green skin) often depicted as eating kids - handsel and gretel for example) oh and the blue skinned people of the appalachians. photos on internet. they really are blue.

[edit on 18-8-2009 by rapunzel222]

It must be heartening to David Icke that so many are not only prepared to treat his claims seriously, but to go further and actually treat even his most fantastic and poorly supported claims as eminently reasonable and plausible.

And yet I would submit he is not owed such a courtesy given his demonstrable double standards. The primary exhibit being Icke's arrangement with the International Humanities Center, an NGO outfit with easily documented connections to individuals and foundations Icke has explicitly and consistently damned as "reptilian" conspirators:

www.paranoiamagazine.com/tangledweb.html

BB

reply to post by BillyBan


I disagree on christianity, but i am a firm believer that the world is run from england.

I think a lot of what the man says is very plausible and though I am a believer In the UFO phenomenon now, I needed to see a UFO before I would one hundred percent come out and believe that they exist... I have seen four now the last one just last night while walking my dog.

I know it is a bit of a mistake among peers to say that reptilians exist but I do think that it is possible that they are among us and if that is true then I would think that to remain hidden for so long, manipulating us as has been mentioned then I think that they are extremely dangerous to us because such a species would have the ability to change us, to enhance us to the point where we would not be concerned with war and the disgusting nature of what our society and cultures are about. We exist to feed and to take and only a few actually have any altruistic nature at all.

We have not been educated to what it is that is truly important thus I assume the reptilians if they are for real are not here for us but are here for themselves only because we are not worthy of wasting time upon because given the choice we also would only serve ourselves?
I have done a lot of charity work and in my opinion most of the other volunteers (very rare exceptions) I met were not there for altruistic reasons but were there to flesh out a curriculum vita, to look good and pure among their friends or to just meet other people and broaden their social circle.

Few were actually volunteering because they wanted to give something back. I volunteered my time for years, then one day I was sick of biting my tongue, had a massive bust up with the main administrator over derogatory comments made against the very people they were meant to be helping and walked away.

I am not talking out of my backside; I saw it with my own eyes. People tend to suck in general terms and they do not even know that they suck and that is probably not their fault but just a by-product of their environment because if you swim in faeces you are going to end up smelling like faeces. I am still in the faeces but these days I use stilts and glare down at the swimmers lol.

Back to reptilians, If they can phase shift and shape shift and have an intelligence that far surpasses our own then how easy would it be for them to not only keep us in the dark but also to use our natural propensity for cynical thought and natural scepticism against us by all and every means. You only have to mention the world reptilian in a thread even on a conspiracy forum and you can sense the snickers and shielded sideways glances. A short time later and the quick reaction force have jumped into the thread and the person/s who mentioned reptilians are heating up like a spit roast.

In the mainstream a reptilian theoriser would be taken apart and dumped at the side of the virtual highway. There is no leeway and no room for debate on the subject among the mainstream and all debate seems to take place in hidden spaces away from ridiculing laughter. I watched a kid play grand theft auto once at PC world and nearly fell over when some placard wearing social dropout in the game shouted “Aliens among us, reptilian death ray.”

It seems that it is ok to mention reptilians but first you must be a social misfit and secondly you must be of a subclass that is easy to laugh at and thus discount as a fool worthy of nothing but retorts and insults.
If it is possible that we have been visited for thousands of years and that we may even be a by-product/product of an extraterrestrials genetic experiment then it is not a large leap even if you are told otherwise to assume or hypothesise that the race behind these experiments are reptilian in nature.

Many have said these reptilians are ugly but having never seen one I would think that humanoid reptilians would be the opposite of ugly and would be incredibly beautiful to look at but that is only my subjective opinion because I can sit and watch an insect or other “ugly” life form for an age while someone else would run screaming for the raid or mallet.

I think that just as it is entirely possible that the UFO’s we see in the sky are extraterrestrial in origin and not all secret military projects that it is also entirely possible that reptilians are here and are the real controllers of this world. They let us pretend we rule and behind the scenes they laugh at us and carry on doing whatever it is that a manipulative reptilian master race would do to an oblivious subjugated mammalian race.

H. G. Wells Eloi and Morlocks comes to mind only unlike the Eloi, we seem to deserve exactly what we get and I think Reptilians are here and have always been here giving us exactly what we deserve.

The reptilian thing might work as a metaphor or as an ugly propaganda prop, especially if one wants to target certain groups without being too gratuitous with one's scapegoating. I note that in Icke's most recent book, "The David Icke Guide to the Global Conspiracy", most of the reptilians seem to be Jews, and that Icke seems to go out of his way to discover or imply Jewish ancestry for those other ostensibly non-Jewish reptilians.

Remember the differance between Jewish , Hebrew and Zionist was one is a faith one is a race or people and the other is a political party basically. I'm no expert but that is my understanding and that is the way it has been put forth by many including icke. When the ADL was trying to get Icke's speaking arrangments barred on the jewish issue but he stated that the conspiracy involves people of all races, faiths and political parties by compartmentalization.

Now on the reptillian agenda. this topic intruiges me and one cant help but look at all the legends and sybology that we have spoke of. I must add in the Sumerians beliefs of being created by this race and the Egyptian and Sumerians aswell as other civilizations of the time using the headdresses in ritual to hide the face. Icke also visited a Zulu Shamin that spoke of the "chituari"(check spell) and when they first saw the white man the thought is was the chituari also very interesting is that he spoke of when he saw an advertising or the actuall film of star wars with darth mall he said that it was like these beings he emphasised on the horns or spikes in the head and their arrangement or abundance.

on the cia/mk-ultra and all that he talks about the childern abducted from kinder care or taken on an outing and having accounts of shape shifting and speaking of "Enki" and "En.Lil" sumerain deities. Another one worth looking at is the Story of Cathy O'Brien who was a slave by her accounts and the accounts of an ex-cia officer now her husband. She and her daughter were subject to beastality andrape with inanimate objects as well as people in high up. One video she has out there is where she and her husband go to a doctor of the vaginal area , she explains that when she was in her 20's her handlerhad cut a muscle inside her that then pertruded like a tounge and engraved a face with an exacto knife the doctor asseses it and gives her opinion and testimony of what she sees. It reminds me of the movie trolls or the leprachaun that face is litterally engraved on a muscle that was cut, it has a nose which hangs off and eyes aswell as a mouth. Now this is shown in like a 15 min video and i think the doctors office is about 7 min into it this is some sick stuff. She wrote 2 books that I know of "Transformation of America" and something else. now she names names and companies ect.. now I look at as If she wrote it and it was published in the 90's and its still on the shelf and she hasnt been sued for slander by the Raegan's , the Bush's, or the Clinton's whom she names and gives detailed testimony through supposed reverse hypnosis. interesting # .........

Originally posted by Marshall Law
Remember the differance between Jewish , Hebrew and Zionist was one is a faith one is a race or people and the other is a political party basically. I'm no expert but that is my understanding and that is the way it has been put forth by many including icke. When the ADL was trying to get Icke's speaking arrangments barred on the jewish issue but he stated that the conspiracy involves people of all races, faiths and political parties by compartmentalization.

No. Icke is clearly making being of Jewish ancestry, rather than being a Zionist, an important indicator of whether one is a reptilian hybrid. Sure, he tries a disingenuous trick of redefining most Jews as "Khazar/Sumerian", taking up Koestler's Thirteenth Tribe story and running with it, so he can dodge accusatons of anti-Semitism. But, as the following examples from "The David Icke Guide to the Global Conspiracy" make all too clear, Icke is using Jewish ancestry to detect reptilians.

• The Rockefellers, formerly Rockenfelder, and the Roosevelts, formerly Rosenfelt, had changed their names to hide their Jewish origins (p.143).
• Round Table founder Lord Alfred Milner, was a “Rothschild front man” (p.154).
• Round Table “head” (sic) Cecil Rhodes was an “utterly ruthless Rothschild agent” (p.220)
• Adolf Hitler was of the “Rothschild Bloodline” (p.155).
• Nazi ideologue Alfred Rosenberg reportedly “had ‘Jewish’ ancestry” (p.157).
• Seven members of the Project for the New American Century – William Kristol, Robert Kagan, Paul Wolfowitz, Elliott Abrams, Dov Zakheim, Douglas Feith, Richard Perle – are “Khazar-Sumerian” (pp.267-272).
• In 1994 it was reported that “seven members of Bill Clinton’s National Security Council were Jewish (Sumerian-Khazar)” (p.274).
• French President Nicolas Sarkozy’s mother is from “one of the oldest Jewish families in Salonika, Greece”, while his father was “a descendant of aristocracy in Sumerian-Khazar Hungary” (p.275).
• Theodore Herzl was the “founder of Zionism and a Rothschild puppet” (p.413).
• Former World Bank Presidents, Paul Wolfowitz and James Wolfensohn, and the current incumbent, Robert Zoellick, are “Sumerian-Khazars” (p.432).
• Hilary Clinton’s father’s family is “reported to have come from the Jewish (Khazar/Sumerian) ghetto in Lodz, Poland” (p.437).
• Prescott Bush, the grandfather of George W. Bush, was actually George H. Scherff from Germany; Icke adds: “the name Scherf with one ‘f’, is Ashkenazi Jewish” (p.441). Prescott was also a “Reptilian hybrid Rothschild agent” (p.155).
• According to one source cited by Icke, Bill Clinton may be “a descendant of the Rothschild family” (p.449).
• Media mogul Rupert Murdoch is a “Khazar/Sumerian” (p.459).

Icke also makes some blunt statements about the alleged extent of Jewish control:

• “…Jewish (Khazar/Sumerian) traders controlled virtually the entire world diamond traffic by the end of the eighteenth century…” (p.220).
• “How come there are so many Khazar/Sumerians in positions of political, banking, business, military, academic and media power when they represent only two per cent of the US population, and the same in so many other countries?” (pp.274-75).

He doesn't talk about any other ethnic groups, just Jews.

BB.

I too bought and started reading Icke's book, but halfway through stopped, his premise was too preposterous. Why would he name Willie Nelson and Boxcar Willie as being Reptillian aliens...what have they ever done to push the alien agenda or the NWO. The more I read, the more stupid I felt for having bought this crap. Given, some of his hypothesis' are based on legitimate concerns, but really...Willie Nelson an evil, child eating Reptillian?

wow he pokes at willie ?! havent got that far in that book yet
( I tend to jump arround books ) not ol' willie daamn ......... I have to agree there but I still defened his nature is not at the jewish faith but merley a blood line and a political idiology and does say that its not all Jews in an anti-semetic sensne and that its more than jewish but all currupted people in the fold but then again I havent finished the book thats just going off interviews and his own documentaries. It all derives from these beings mingling into society in differant ways . A summerian tribe called Hicsas migrated into egypt in time they mixed into the ruling class or becase of them egypt became a monarchy there was a civil war , treaty and these hicsas were granted Cannin ect.. Sitchin covers this Von Danikin covers it and others most of Ickes stuff is other peoples work brought togeather , even the reptile stuff he said himself first time he heard of it he put in the back of his head as interesting but looney but after more pople came forward so did he puting this togeather. He says something along those lines in one of his videos.

I respect the guy for his mind although I do not agree with everything but what can be proven is undeniable

I wonder if any suits are pending for slander or deffomation ......
At least he is causing minds to think he should be a nobel peace prize before oboma should lol there are some things left for speculation