Simon Peter and Apostolic Succession, page 2

orangemandave said:
Jesus never founded the Roman Catholic Church they came hundreds of years after his death and jumbled pagan dates in with their own version of Christianity.

I am afraid that you need to take a closer look at the early years of the Church. Jesus Christ most definitely founded the Roman Catholic Church when he appointed Peter as his successor, and leader of the Church at the beginning of Christianity. St. Paul and many other saints were instrumental in spreading Christianity throughout various countries thereafter.

The Holy Roman Catholic Church certainly took many, many decades - even centuries - to arrive at its organizational structure. Naturally, the Church in the beginning was quite small compared to today.

But Jesus Christ was most definitely the founder. That's why they call it "Christianity", and not some other name.

As far as paganism is concerned, you are correct to a certain degree. I would argue, however, that Catholicism has a LOT more in common with Judaism than it does with paganism.

As Christianity gained more and more popularity - due in part to its charitable acts to the poor - it overtook paganism as the main religion in Rome. As a result, a small number of pagan practices - completely unrelated to the heart of Christianity itself - were adopted. Just because Christianity adopted some of the practices of the pagans - however minor and trivial they may be - does not negate the religion in and of itself.

Religions borrow from other religions all the time. Cultures borrow from other cultures all the time. This is the natural order of things as religions and cultures interact and meld together.

If anything, Catholicism has most in common not with paganism, but with Judaism. In fact, a large number of Catholic prayers have a direct, even literal meaning, from Jewish prayers. Even the sacrifice of the Mass, and the altar in a Catholic Church, have a relationship to sacrifices as offered in the Old Testament.

Where in the bible does it refer to prayer beads?

What is wrong with praying the Rosary? Do tell. "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen." What is wrong with asking for the Mother of God to pray for us and our sinful ways, now and before we die? I am really curious about what you would challenge about asking for prayers for our sinful ways. (What kind of angry, malevolent person would object to this practice?)

The Rosary is hundreds of years old in the Catholic religion. It originated from St. Dominic, and even some of the laity that - instead of praying the Divine Office as monks did - would pray 150 "Our Father" prayers on a string of beads.

The Rosary is a religious practice that has been practiced in many other religions that pre-date Christianity, including Buddhism. Using prayer beads to pray is a very ancient practice.

As far as the Bible not mentioning "prayer beads", I would remind you that the Bible doesn't mention a lot of modern day sins either - such as abortion, pornography, etc. That doesn't make it any less sinful. It just means that in these cases of modernity, Biblical principles would guide a Christian or Jew's perspective on these matters regarding sin.

Likewise, the Bible - in many, many places - does advocate that we pray to God. That is a core principle that runs throughout the Bible. This is true throughout the Old and New Testament.

If the Rosary is anything, it is prayer - a principle well-advocated for in the Bible through and through.

You think Jesus would approve of a church that has murdered millions, abused millions, aided the Nazis etc i don't think so.

If you can name a single religion on planet Earth that isn't guilty of human errors, then I would be glad to hear of it.

The Church of today never aided the Nazis. If you have legitimate proof to support your claim, I would appreciate some solid, academic references proving your allegations. And please, don't quote a conspiracy theorist.

Regardless, the Church today is actively engaged in ministering to the poor throughout the world - including many Third World countries. The Church was publicly against the Iraq war. It is the only religion I know of that fights against the murderous abortion industry. It stands up for the lowly, operates soup kitchens for the poor, educates students through their schools and universities, etc. It is a very benevolent institution.

As far as "murdering millions", you must be referring to the Crusades. Give me a break. At that time in history, you could make the same claim about murdering millions against radical Islam - which even today is rampantly more murderous than any other religion I can think of. Christianity is tame compared to radical Islam.

As far as "child abuse", you can make the same allegations statistically for any other institution that has interaction with children - including other religious authorities, school teachers, nursery schools, etc.

The Catholic Church has instituted rigorous background checks for any employee of the Church that might have any contact with the poor or children. It has been a problem, but no more so than in any other religious institution, and the Church has taken assertive steps to correct the problem in recent years. Statistically, the number of priests that have abused children has been less than 1% of all priests.

Funny how you turn your eye towards the negative - which is minimal - and completely ignore all the positives that the Church brings to the world - which is quite great.