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Feds at DefCon Alarmed After RFIDs Scanned

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posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 06:12 PM
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reply to post by EnlightenUp
 


But if we do that to our Passports and Driver's Licenses and credit cards, etc, do we risk ruining the card itself rendering it useless?




posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 06:23 PM
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i must be missing something about the whole RFID buzz deal.
not that i think it's right to tag people, but..

as i understand, these devices should store a unique ID for each person, that matches an entry in a database where your data is safely stored.
so if a hacker hacked into your chip, all they would see is a long number or hash key.

like having a unique tattoo, birth mark, defect, id card, etc.. which can be used to match you against saved records. we all have been tagged already one way or another. the thing about the RFID chip is that you can't lose it.

you have to pay a monthly bill just to exchange voice or text data with other users by using a handheld device. WHY would they implant a device in you can can store/send off data about you to anyone that wants if for free?

if the people who designed these things are using it to store information about yourself then they need to take a few programming courses.



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by Nivcharah
reply to post by EnlightenUp
 


But if we do that to our Passports and Driver's Licenses and credit cards, etc, do we risk ruining the card itself rendering it useless?


Yes. That's for whatever doesn't need it for continued use. Besides sneakers, they mentioned tires in the article linked to above (boycott michelin I guess). Some sort of blockage would be better for those.



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 06:50 PM
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Reply to post by Roadblockx
 


sorry to call you out on this roadbloack, but teh ip from your cell changes all the time. There is no set IP for a mobile browser.
Proof:
Go to www.whatismyip.com from your phone browser and write it down wait a lil bit til you change locations. Go to the page again and compare the IP given to you this time to the one you wrote down earlier. they will be different.
I have no idea why but it changes. Don't know if its time or location or what, but it does change


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 08:01 AM
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Originally posted by skeetontheconspiracy
Reply to post by Roadblockx
 


sorry to call you out on this roadbloack, but teh ip from your cell changes all the time. There is no set IP for a mobile browser.
Proof:
Go to www.whatismyip.com from your phone browser and write it down wait a lil bit til you change locations. Go to the page again and compare the IP given to you this time to the one you wrote down earlier. they will be different.
I have no idea why but it changes. Don't know if its time or location or what, but it does change


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



You're fine. I don't think you are calling me out on anything and appreciate the response. I completely agree that your IP will change just as it does for your router/modem at your house (unless you have a sticky IP or static). It changes because each wireless carrier is given a range of public IP's which they take hand out to their customers. Because there are so many phones and wireless devices demanding an IP address, the internet is now having to use 6 octets (xx.xx.xx.xx.xx.xx) instead of the original 4 octets (xx.xx.xx.xx). Hope I explained that well enough. I get geeked up when I get to talk my native tongue (networking).

The point I was trying to make was that the IP could be the mark of the beast because you would have A number tied to you no matter what. Even those that don't have a computer at home but have a cell phone would "mark" them.

Unless time is the mark of the beast..... Hmmm...



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 08:09 AM
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Originally posted by jaden_x
i must be missing something about the whole RFID buzz deal.
not that i think it's right to tag people, but..

as i understand, these devices should store a unique ID for each person, that matches an entry in a database where your data is safely stored.
so if a hacker hacked into your chip, all they would see is a long number or hash key.

like having a unique tattoo, birth mark, defect, id card, etc.. which can be used to match you against saved records. we all have been tagged already one way or another. the thing about the RFID chip is that you can't lose it.

you have to pay a monthly bill just to exchange voice or text data with other users by using a handheld device. WHY would they implant a device in you can can store/send off data about you to anyone that wants if for free?

if the people who designed these things are using it to store information about yourself then they need to take a few programming courses.



Good points. The deal with the RFID's is that you really CAN'T go anywhere without it. You could turn off your cellphone/smartphone/PDA and leave it in your car and not be "tracked". But you HAVE to carry your driver's license, state ID, passport, etc..... Once you enter a business or get close to a government building, that RFID reader would pick-up that signal and find out just who you are. That is a concern even for Joe Citizen. Not being able to travel without being tracked isn't right. Couple that with face recognition software and you really can't get lost in the crowd.....

As for the RFID database. Just like we discussed earlier and another poster mentioned the livestock database, yes all the RFID will have is a "number" or "identifier" that cooresponds to your personal info in a database. So if your RFID gets lost or data gets captured, it could be real easy to be at the scene of a crime using someone else's RFID chip and make it look like they were there. Long shot, sure. In the ballpark, yep.




posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 08:12 AM
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reply to post by jeasahtheseer
 


I am really jealous. I have been dieing to go since I entered the IT field 10+ years ago. I hear about it, watch the videos of it and one year will just have to bite the bullet and go. From the security papers I read right after the conference, I am amazed to hear of the new exploits and those that "hacked" at the conference. I couldn't even imagine what that has to feel like when your name shows up on that board as getting hacked.




posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 09:17 AM
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Originally posted by Roadblockx
Originally posted by jaden_x


Good points. The deal with the RFID's is that you really CAN'T go anywhere without it. You could turn off your cellphone/smartphone/PDA and leave it in your car and not be "tracked". But you HAVE to carry your driver's license, state ID, passport, etc..... Once you enter a business or get close to a government building, that RFID reader would pick-up that signal and find out just who you are. That is a concern even for Joe Citizen. Not being able to travel without being tracked isn't right. Couple that with face recognition software and you really can't get lost in the crowd.....


Simply put any IDs with RFID chips in a foil pouch.

This is the way shoplifters beat RFIDs in store's they use bags lined with foil the beat the sensors at the doors.

Antistatic bags used for electronic will also shield your cards and passport
www.ece.rochester.edu...

My bank gave me a debit card with a RFID chip and the first thing i did was buy a shield
www.rfid-shield.com...

They also make these for passports.
www.thinkgeek.com...

You just have to be smarter then the government.
Or the average bear.


[edit on 6-8-2009 by ANNED]



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by jaden_x

as i understand, these devices should store a unique ID for each person, that matches an entry in a database where your data is safely stored.
so if a hacker hacked into your chip, all they would see is a long number or hash key.



If you read the article, this is exactly the way it is done (for humans, I don't know about cattle or library books, there are many ways to tag).

But nothing is totally secure actually. The hacker only needs to copy that hash onto another chip and he is you now.

Those who are pointing towards the weakness of radio (wireless), should see that wired IDs are not any better than wireless ones. ATM cards are not wireless but get routinely hacked using a fake ATM.

Security is an illusion. Everything seems secure until someone smart comes and breaks it. You can only make things more and more difficult for an average hacker, that's all you can do. And change the method every year or so.

Given enough motivation and time, anything can be hacked. This is the bottom line.



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 09:52 AM
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reply to post by ANNED
 


Interesting.... I hadn't given much thought into that. I thought I had a great million dollar product (wallets with RFID protection) but some yahoo beat me to it.


rfid wallet

RFID is just not a great idea in its current state. More security has to be built into it but anything man made can be hacked. The only variable is how much patience and time does the hacker(s) have along with how much motivation is there.

I would volunteer my mother-in-law for testing......



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 09:55 AM
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Mod Delete.

[edit on 6-8-2009 by king9072]



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 12:23 PM
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This "news" isn't news at all. I recall some five or so years ago talking with my boss (who was Defense Attache at an embassy) about a German "hacker" who demonstrated precisely this problem already back then! TPTB knew it then and *still* implemented the blasted things for "greater security". Gotta ask you all just how secure you feel knowing that your whole life can be lifted any time, anywhere. Bend over for it - it won't hurt so much anymore since it's been done so many times to you already....

How long is it going to take for you people to get angry enough to do something about this stuff?



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 01:02 PM
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reply to post by CosmicEgg
 




I'm that mad now. It's the sheeple that continue to donate the money, be used for misinformation, tell on their neighbors... etc.

The thing I haven't seen or heard is WHAT is there to do?? I am in IT. I work from a project plan and knowing that A + B should equal C. What is the plan? What steps are you or anyone else outlining? What is the goal?

Yes we are mad. Sure. But WTF do we do about it? There is NO action plan. I am ready to rally around someone. I would love to be that person but I am not great at organizing large groups of people together for a cause. Setting up a website and providing a secure way for those to coordinate their plans, all over it! But someone has to be good at recognizing those strengths and knowing how to capitalize on them. Is that you? Are you wanting to lead the revolution?



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by Roadblockx
 


Excellent story, thanks for posting it.

In the source referenced in the OP, I found this comment interesting:


Posted by: LandShark | 08/4/09 | 5:22 pm Now not only you need a tinfoil hat, you need a tinfoil wallet as well.


They said the metallized bags that snacks (like Frito chips for example) come in are adequate but the antistatic bags are not adequate to act as a Faraday cage to keep the RFID stuff in your wallet safe (or cell phones). Interesting.



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by Roadblockx
 


Well, a couple of years ago my life started to push me in a very clear direction. That direction has dropped me off the government radar more and more. Now I consume as little as possible - I'm not subject to media manipulation because I don't subscribe to any magazines, I don't watch tv, I don't read the news but maybe twice a month for a laugh. I'm still in the process of selling off all the stuff I had accumulated over the years and needed to save for some unknown reason. I went through all that stuff and coldly decided what I could live without. Turns out it's nearly everything. Everytime I reach a tough item, I just ask myself if I could leave it behind when TSHTF.

As I'm lightening my load, I'm also freeing myself from all the crap society has conditioned me to believe. It's so liberating! The lightness is just incredible.

Maybe that's the place to start...



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 08:40 PM
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reply to post by CosmicEgg
 




That is AWESOME! You serioulsy will have to keep us (or at least me) updated as you go through this. Tell me, do you have any pets? What are the items you have decided you CAN'T go without? Maybe that is where I am most curious!

It is informants like you who will continue to remind those of us who haven't removed those items we feel we can do without. I know my wife wouldn't be too cool with me giving away the furniture.... Yikes...



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 08:44 PM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


I appreciate your contributions to the thread. 72 hours ago I was oblivious to the entire RFID chips and the impact it has on the everyday activities I do. Just completely oblivious....


Great posters on here that are much more intelligent then I am have really opened my eyes and my mind (and hopefully others as well) . I am looking for an updated article on this to add something else insightful to this thread.

If anyone has a list of items that currently contain RFID chips (either in the US or abroad), please post it on here. I am extremely interested.

[edit on 6-8-2009 by Roadblockx]



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 08:50 PM
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Originally posted by SemperParatusRJCC
We'll if they start chipping people. I for one am cutting mine out. Those bastards aren't gonna track me that easily. And if it releases cyanide, well Ill have to do it quick.


Crap! Not sure how I missed your post.

How do you know you have it? Or how would you know you got it? It could be slipped in during surgery, part of your fillings for your teeth.... Maybe in your glasses or contacts...






posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 09:03 PM
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Originally posted by Roadblockx
If anyone has a list of items that currently contain RFID chips (either in the US or abroad), please post it on here. I am extremely interested.


I'm pretty sure you could pick up a very cheep RFID USB scanner on the net - I'm thinking less that $20 my self, they can't cost that much, with the right software wich should be available for free somewhere you could scan things at random, just wave your driving licence under it for instance and see if you get a hit.

Clearly you can buy the readers easily or else how would people make use of the RFID system?

I'd be interested in what people find out - that could make for a very interesting thread.



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 09:05 PM
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I'm a bartender in Vegas so I thought I'd post this as I know how happy it will make all of you.

A few days ago we had some Def Con nerds (yea, I said nerds) come into my place of employment and rack of $750 worth of food and beer for 5 guys.

They proceeded to pay for it with an official United States Government credit card.

yup, 750 bucks worth of food and beer for these 5 clowns all paid for by us.



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