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Gov't insurance would allow coverage for abortion

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posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by Avenginggecko
Personally, I believe it is the woman's ultimate right to do with her body as she wishes.


That's completely untrue
the baby inside her is not her body

It completely goes over my head how people don't see this




posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 10:26 AM
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I wonder if it will cover vasectomies as well? How about tubal ligation?

Just sayin'



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 10:27 AM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by Avenginggecko
Personally, I believe it is the woman's ultimate right to do with her body as she wishes.


That's completely untrue
the baby inside her is not her body

It completely goes over my head how people don't see this


That's your opinion... and that's fine, we don't force people to have abortions...

But illegal abortions is just as unjust as mandatory abortions.

Imagine it was illegal to masturbate because all the sperms were considered potential babies...just like a fetus...a potential baby...



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by Jezus

That's your opinion... and that's fine, we don't force people to have abortions...


I disagree with you that this is my opinion
this is not opinion

that other baby is factually another body
I do not consider it opinion and I don't see how anyone could



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by Avenginggecko
Personally, I believe it is the woman's ultimate right to do with her body as she wishes.


That's completely untrue
the baby inside her is not her body

It completely goes over my head how people don't see this


How is that completely untrue? I said it was the woman's right to do with her body as she wishes. Your argument is that the fetus isn't the woman's body...

Okay, let's go with that.

Instead of abortions we simply remove the fetus from the woman's body and set it on a table or in a container to live and grow as it pleases. Problem solved.

It is still ultimately her body because the fetus is 100% dependent upon the woman to maintain itself, and therefore it is the woman's right to end her unwanted care of said fetus if she likes.

It's not going over anyone's head that the fetus is a body.

1. By far the most abortions that occur are in the first trimester
2. A fetus can not feel pain until it develops a neocortex in the third trimester.
3. A fetus does not have any higher cognitive function or consciousness until its birth.
4. A fetus is completely dependent upon the mother's body, therefore it is my belief that the mother has the ultimate right in determining whether or not she would like to end its care.



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 11:19 AM
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I'm pro-choice and even I see this as completely wrong. The government has no business funding such things.



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 11:24 AM
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Thought I posted this earlier, but I can't see that post. Anyway, here's what Ron Paul has to say about it in an artcile he penned.

Robn Hood run amok
www.tenthamendmentcenter.com...



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by Avenginggecko

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by Avenginggecko
Personally, I believe it is the woman's ultimate right to do with her body as she wishes.


That's completely untrue
the baby inside her is not her body

It completely goes over my head how people don't see this


How is that completely untrue? I said it was the woman's right to do with her body as she wishes. Your argument is that the fetus isn't the woman's body...

Okay, let's go with that.

Instead of abortions we simply remove the fetus from the woman's body and set it on a table or in a container to live and grow as it pleases. Problem solved.

It is still ultimately her body because the fetus is 100% dependent upon the woman to maintain itself, and therefore it is the woman's right to end her unwanted care of said fetus if she likes.

It's not going over anyone's head that the fetus is a body.

1. By far the most abortions that occur are in the first trimester
2. A fetus can not feel pain until it develops a neocortex in the third trimester.
3. A fetus does not have any higher cognitive function or consciousness until its birth.
4. A fetus is completely dependent upon the mother's body, therefore it is my belief that the mother has the ultimate right in determining whether or not she would like to end its care.



Why is it dependent on only ONE person, the mother? What about the father's choice? He as an obligation to pay child support if the mother decides, doesn't he? So he has no say in the matter?


Also, what a very novice suggestion: "Instead of abortions we simply remove the fetus from the woman's body and set it on a table or in a container to live and grow as it pleases. Problem solved." I'm not saying I am a genius but d@mn... every time I read that post I get dumber. I wish there was an email address the government offered to report people who make other dumber as you would be on your way....


But the fact is that there is "something" growing inside the woman as soon as the sperm hits the egg. It's growing. Growing means living. Whether it's mold, plants, whatever.. It's growing, has life. Abortion then is killing whatever is growing. Isn't that what it comes down to? Killing whatever is growing?



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by nunya13
 


Great view and contribution to the topic. That is exactly what I was trying to say (at least the end part...)


Those that have been here from the first post has seen me ask but explain how the "flag" option works please. I'm still new to this and you can U2U me if you'd like.



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by Aggie Man
I wonder if it will cover vasectomies as well? How about tubal ligation?

Just sayin'


I hope it does. I would be completely cool with tubals, vasecs and other birth control procedures (including education on sex). But I don't agree that parents aren't notified when their child gets an std test done at school or has a preg test taken at school. How can those parents not be told? Maybe in a situation where the dad is raping the daughter over and over. Fine. Small percentage (or am I underestimating this?) The sex education would also explain rape, incest, etc... and how to report this.

Good funding for education would probably solve sooooooo many of these problems. Not just sex ed but a good all around education.



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by Roadblockx
 


Wow thanks for completely attacking me personally. It really shows your level of caliber in the discussion.


It was obviously a sarcastic comment in response to his completely shirking the fact that a mother's body controls the life of the fetus and making the assumption that people don't take into account the fetus' life.

And by the way, before you insult someone's intelligence you should really make sure you're using "dumb" in the correct way. Not trying to make you sound "dumber", but really.


I never brought the father into the discussion and I believe if a father wants the child he should have some say in the matter, but that doesn't change the fact that the mother is the ultimate caretaker and decision maker in her pregnancy.


But the fact is that there is "something" growing inside the woman as soon as the sperm hits the egg. It's growing. Growing means living. Whether it's mold, plants, whatever.. It's growing, has life. Abortion then is killing whatever is growing. Isn't that what it comes down to? Killing whatever is growing?


Yes, that is what comes down to it. So I suppose you must support a woman keeping her child even if it means her life is endangered by the fetus, or if she is a victim of incest, rape, or child molestation and becomes pregnant due to one of those. That was my original point in my original post, had you cared to read it. If you base abortion on the basis of morality and murder, then it's wrong to take an "innocent's" life regardless of the situation.

However, if you accept that a woman has a right to control her body and what goes on inside it, then you must accept the fact that if she does not want to carry the fetus to term, then it is her choice. I also stated that whether or not she chooses to keep the fetus or abort it, she will have to deal with heavy emotional consequences (good and bad) for the rest of her life.



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 12:30 PM
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It's just more crazies trying to force their opinions on everyone else... if a woman wants to abort her baby, she can do so with nothing more than a clothes hangar and a quick google search on "how to abort my baby at home". NOTHING you can do will change that.

Why can't people understand that just because you feel a certain way, does NOT mean everyone else does? And to go one step further, by forcing your opinions on anyone else (or even expecting them to blindly agree) is exactly what our great democratic nation fights against. By forcing your opinion, you are only exposing yourself as a self-righteous dingus and most intelligible people will swarm away from you as soon as you do.

Stop being so fascist and try to understand that you are not in a position to tell someone to, or not to, abort their baby. It's their body, it's their life, it's their time and resources- not yours. Stop trying to control other people and take a good long look in the mirror.

My point- stop trying to change the world with your self-righteous crusades and start by changing yourself.

If I could see any single one of you, I COULD have at least 10 things to change about you based on my own personal feelings... but that's not a good way to live life (judging people). It is when we learn to observe, rather than judge, that we may reach a true state of enlightenment. Observe other people, learn from them, don't make their mistakes. But do NOT try to change what you have no control over- it'll only turn into a power struggle.

STOP JUDGING, START OBSERVING. LET PEOPLE DO AS THEY WISH WITH THEIR BODIES AND LIVES.



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by Avenginggecko
 


I save the attacks for a select few. You made the list. Congrats.
Stupidity has a way of getting under my skin.

Definition of dumber

Here is the formula I came up with to decide whether or not an abortion is permitted (the thing to remember is - BE ACCOUNTABLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS). Abortions seem to allow the mother to get out of her stupid decisions:

Can NOT have an abortion
1. Mother had cconsensual sex (whether she was drunk, high or otherwise doesn't matter).
2. Egg was fertlized more then 48 hours ago

Can have an abortion (parents notified, unless result of incest)
1. Rape (proven in court)
2. Incest (proven in court)
3. Endangers health of child (requires 2 doctors to agree)
4. Mother is younger then 15
5. No previous abortions in 12 months

Why do I say 15 as a cut-off? Had to start at some number and 14 sounded too young. Suggestions on a different age?

15+ should be smart enough (with their parents oversight) to not be in those situations. Yes, I am involving the parents in this. We can't expect our young people to make the decisions by themselves. We need education for parents and young people so they know that they don't have to hump like rabbits. There are other things to do.



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by ninecrimes
It's just more crazies trying to force their opinions on everyone else... if a woman wants to abort her baby, she can do so with nothing more than a clothes hangar and a quick google search on "how to abort my baby at home". NOTHING you can do will change that.

Why can't people understand that just because you feel a certain way, does NOT mean everyone else does? And to go one step further, by forcing your opinions on anyone else (or even expecting them to blindly agree) is exactly what our great democratic nation fights against. By forcing your opinion, you are only exposing yourself as a self-righteous dingus and most intelligible people will swarm away from you as soon as you do.

Stop being so fascist and try to understand that you are not in a position to tell someone to, or not to, abort their baby. It's their body, it's their life, it's their time and resources- not yours. Stop trying to control other people and take a good long look in the mirror.

My point- stop trying to change the world with your self-righteous crusades and start by changing yourself.

If I could see any single one of you, I COULD have at least 10 things to change about you based on my own personal feelings... but that's not a good way to live life (judging people). It is when we learn to observe, rather than judge, that we may reach a true state of enlightenment. Observe other people, learn from them, don't make their mistakes. But do NOT try to change what you have no control over- it'll only turn into a power struggle.

STOP JUDGING, START OBSERVING. LET PEOPLE DO AS THEY WISH WITH THEIR BODIES AND LIVES.


Perhaps you can tell me then why ONLY the woman gets to decide the fate. It took more then her to get in that situation and if she decides to have it, the father will be responsible.

So go ahead, tell me how you would handle these two situations:
A. woman preg and wants to have baby, father wants abortion
B. woman preg and doesn't want baby, father does



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 12:39 PM
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Either way, this is Population control, insured by TPTB



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 12:43 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 12:44 PM
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reply to post by ButterCookie
 


With the building of DIA, TPTB should have a safe place to call home... Population should be the least of their worries. You and I discussing BHO's health care plan would throw up more red flags then pop control.



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 12:49 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 12:49 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 12:51 PM
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