Hezbollah Stockpiles 40,000 Rockets Near Israeli Border

reply to post by mattpryor


Yeah, Hezbollah are for ever invading Israel. Hezbollah attacks against Israeli targets has always been in response to Israeli aggression and border incursions. Of course, the Israeli owned media machine will always spin it differently, which is why I don't read the corporate stuff any more.
The Israelis just last week rolled tanks up to the border and overflew Lebanese airspace...again! They do this all the time but where is the western media outrage to this provocative incursion into another sovereign state's airspace? If this was happening elsewhere it'd be all over the papers.

Originally posted by Britguy
reply to post by mattpryor

 

Yeah, Hezbollah are for ever invading Israel. Hezbollah attacks against Israeli targets has always been in response to Israeli aggression and border incursions. Of course, the Israeli owned media machine will always spin it differently, which is why I don't read the corporate stuff any more.
The Israelis just last week rolled tanks up to the border and overflew Lebanese airspace...again! They do this all the time but where is the western media outrage to this provocative incursion into another sovereign state's airspace? If this was happening elsewhere it'd be all over the papers.

Ok, you are wrong, allow me to correct you.

FIRST and formost, the Terrorists Hezbolla have moved 40,000+ rockets and terrorists troops to the Isreali border.

In "RESPONCE" to the terrorist threat on the border, they moved defence personalel and equipment to "COUNTER" the terrorist threat on their border.

Allow me to put it terms you should be very ablle to understand, "britguy"

Remember WW2 whenGermany was sending in unguided rockets into Englands population centers?

that is what the terrorists do.

Remember what England did back to Germany, firebombing cities and such.

Well, well, how does that compare???

What, same thing, no kidding.

reply to post by mrmonsoon


Aha! Poor little Israel, the victim once again then.

How can you seriously compare events of WWII with what Israel does to the Lebanese? Sure, just like the allies in WWII, Israel in it's last spat with Lebanon did bomb civilian infrastructure well away from any area of conflict and indiscriminately use cluster munitions over population centres. It was a crime back then as it is today.

The spin machine goes into overdrive every time in the western media but it always seems that UN monitors, independent foreign journalists etc have a different story to tell. Just because a Murdoch rag tells it one way doesn't mean it's true.

Can you provide a link or two from a credible source showing that that Hezbollah moved troops and thousands of rockets to the border BEFORE Israel made it's move? By credible I mean not the Jerusalem post or CNN, ABC, BBC or any Murdoch owned or other corporate rags?

[edit on 7-8-2009 by Britguy]

reply to post by Britguy


Britguy, there is one crucial thing which you are failing to understand.

Hezbollah's beef with Israel has nothing to do with Lebanon. Lebanon is an independent country and is not at war with Israel. Hezbollah does not represent Lebanese people, it is not sanctioned by the Lebanese government, and is not controlled by the Lebanese government.

Hezbollah's beef with Israel has nothing to do with land. Or water. Or resources. Or resistance. And it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Palestinians.

Hezbollah's beef with Israel is very, very simple to understand. Here are two quotes from Hassan Nazrallah, leader of Hezbollah, which hopefully illustrate my point:

"If they [the Jews] all gather in Israel it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide."

"They [the Jews] are a cancer which is liable to spread at any moment."

Shall I spell it out?

THEY HATE JEWS.

Once more for good luck?

THEY HATE JEWS.

It beggars belief that people living in the civilized world actually support them and vilify the IDF for protecting its citizens (who have only EVER wanted to live in peace and be left the hell alone).

Originally posted by mattpryor
reply to post by Britguy

 

It beggars belief that people living in the civilized world actually support them and vilify the IDF for protecting its citizens (who have only EVER wanted to live in peace and be left the hell alone).

You gotta be kiddin' me! So they want to live in peace and be left alone? It's a bit late for that after all the death and suffering they have heaped upon the inhabitants of the land they now live on, isn't it? Is it any wonder that the dispossessed inhabitants fight back in the face of such brutality and bigotry?
The fact still stands that Hezbollah have not attacked Israel and are a defence militia. I guess the Lebanese government and armed forces staff are also to be considered terrorists for their stance against Israeli aggression?

Originally posted by dragonridr
Nothing happens in that country without Hezbollahs permision.Everyone knows if there is a spitball sent across the border they knew about it there in total control.

Oh really? So Israel only fires upon Hezbollah or enters Lebanon only with Hezbollah's permission? Obviously not.

You can't dismiss the false flag attempts and automatically place fault that easily.

reply to post by dzonatas


No, clearly his simple idea got past you...

He meant that every intrusion/terrorist attack/every rocket that flies from Lebanon to Israel is from the terrorisite group Hezbolla.

And regardless of their lies, please, they know about every one of their terrorist attacks.

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
reply to post by dzonatas

 

No, clearly his simple idea got past you...

He meant that every intrusion/terrorist attack/every rocket that flies from Lebanon to Israel is from the terrorisite group Hezbolla.

And regardless of their lies, please, they know about every one of their terrorist attacks.

Well then, also simply said, prove it.

reply to post by mattpryor


Actually, water supply does play a huge part in all of this. It is the main reason why israel refuses to give back territory it captured, such as the Golan Heights, which supply a significant amount of Israel's fresh water supply. it is also a major agricultural area and also brings in significant tourist revenue:

The area is also a key source of water for an arid region. Rainwater from the Golan's catchment feeds into the Jordan River. The area provides a third of Israel's water supply.

The land is fertile, with the volcanic soil being used to cultivate vineyards and orchards and to raise cattle. The Golan is also home to Israel's only ski resort.

BBC

maybe you won't be so quick with the accusations of libel?

Originally posted by mattpryor
Hezbollah's beef with Israel has nothing to do with Lebanon. Lebanon is an independent country and is not at war with Israel. Hezbollah does not represent Lebanese people, it is not sanctioned by the Lebanese government, and is not controlled by the Lebanese government.

I didn't think it was possible, but you've made a boob of yourself twice inside of two pages!

Hezbollah represents, by a democractic mandate, the majority of Lebanons Shi'a. They control 11 of the 30 cabinet positions in the Labanese Government. I think by any stretch of the imagination, they are a good representation of Lebanons population.

Hezbollah's beef with Israel has nothing to do with land. Or water. Or resources. Or resistance. And it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Palestinians.

It does, actually. It was formed as a response to Israeli interference and military invasions of their country. Go read some actual history, it might help you, instead of regurgitating this tripe.

Hezbollah's beef with Israel is very, very simple to understand. Here are two quotes from Hassan Nazrallah, leader of Hezbollah, which hopefully illustrate my point:

It would be nice to have a source for that quote?



[edit on 7/8/09 by stumason]

Originally posted by mattpryor
reply to post by Britguy

 

"If they [the Jews] all gather in Israel it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide."

"They [the Jews] are a cancer which is liable to spread at any moment."

Shall I spell it out?

THEY HATE JEWS.

You know what's funny?
The Israelis hate the Arab nations just as much....kind of negates your quote there, doesn't it? Both sides would be as likely to say "spill the blood of the infidels!". Kind of makes picking a side rather stupid, don't you think?
It's a religious conflict, so there can really be no RIGHT or WRONG unless you happen to buy into one of the two religious ideologies.

I am simply pissed at Israel because they have killed a LOT of people over there in recent history, and have made the lives of MILLIONS pretty rough.

Religious doctrine is the real culprit here, and this is just further proof
that religion is a bunch of CRAP 99.9% of the time.

reply to post by stumason


Please allow me to assist you with that.

www.israelshallstandforever.org...

In there it gives the reference statement by him and it's source:

article.nationalreview.com...


BTW, here is another quote for the terrorist leader:
" the destruction of Israel, and liberation of Palestine and Jerusalem is the primary principle of Hezbolla.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by mrmonsoon


I was hoping for an actual source, not another set of obviously biased people (the guy writing in the first link is some evangelical pastor) providing yet more unsourced quotes. This is what is known as a secondary source and has to be treated with caution unless it can be verified.

I'll ask again, can you provide me with a direct, primary source for these quotes attributed to Hezbollah? You wouldn't accept me posting a link that claimed George Bush said "I am a really a reptilian space monkey", would you? You'd like to see a direct quote, or better yet a video, of him saying it himself.

It wouldn't bother me if he is a Jew-Hater, that's his issues to deal with, but we can't just go throwing around claims without any evidence to back them up, can we? I like an informed, educated debate, yet this thread and others like it are always full of BS claims being made by both sides trotting out biased, secondary sources to back their dubious claims up.

reply to post by dzonatas


By your own thinking......

Prove they didn't.

There is radar telemetry that shows the rockets coming from Lebanon and going into Israel, there is no denying that.

There are two choices; it came from the Lebanese army or from Hezbollah terrorists........

The obvious cause of the attack is the Hezbollah terrorist.

Originally posted by Ignorance Denied

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
reply to post by stumason

 

Please allow me to assist you with that.

www.israelshallstandforever.org...

In there it gives the reference statement by him and it's source:

article.nationalreview.com...


BTW, here is another quote for the terrorist leader:
" the destruction of Israel, and liberation of Palestine and Jerusalem is the primary principle of Hezbolla.

You have to be F**KING kidding me, are you living in another dimension or something, Hizbollah are the agressers?

If this is your conclusion my friend, then i hope you are standing on the highest building in tel aviv when they bomb the sh*t outta the place.. Israel is like a scurge, and you are one of the flee's on her bollocks!!!!!

Gee, you asked for sources and I happily provided the sources, so what the problem????

Now, hoping for my death -that verges on death threats and legal action against you.

Now your TAc violating attack has more slur's.

Well, it is a well know fact that in any debate when one side needs to move to personal attacks, it is because they vcan notndebate the facts as presented and there for attack the presenter. For that matter, in compation debate, you automaticly lose at that point.

reply to post by FlyersFan


And I would look to where they got those 40k rockets from and how. If you can figure that out I think you may finally be shocked.

As for me and this fight for a nation that wasn't a nation but 70 short years ago? Well, they are both bringing whatever comes upon themselves. Israel has caused as much harm as has been done against them. They have stuck to the 'preventive' measures that the Bush regime thought so highly of. All that the preventive mentality does is create more and more hatred towards you as a nation because you quickly become viewed as an aggressive bully.

reply to post by stumason


You asked for sources and I gave you two.

Now that there are sources to prove the truth, you decidse you don't like those sources....

Ok, what sources do you like?????

When I have more time, I will find the samething from other sources, but you got what you asked for, sources now you have to accept the truth.

reply to post by mrmonsoon


I think i made the difference quite clear as to what you call a source (someone else, with vested interests, saying someone said something) to an actual source (someone actually recorded as saying something).

Think of it as "evidence". What you are providing as a source is, at best, anecdotal. Provide me with a reputable source quoting the man saying it, not a Evangelical pastor saying he said something. That isn't a source.

I think the only reason why you're shirking the chance of proving your claims is because you cannot, hence the need to rely on dodgy, anecdotal quotes and not not a proper, legit source.

Oh, I've already looked for these supposed quotes and they are fabrications, much like the oft quoted Iranian President remark which he never made about wiping Israel off the map. But, if you actually want an intelligent debate, I challenge you to prove me wrong.

But I know you can't, as the quotes you attribute to him apparently apparead in the Beirut Times on 22 Oct 2002, yet the Newspaper itself denies ever printing those words and challenges that the translator had "an agenda"..

Eugene Goodheart asks whether I am familiar with two statements he attributes to Hizbullah’s secretary-general, Sayed Hassan Nasrallah (Letters, 7 September). Goodheart uses the inflammatory quotations to accuse Nasrallah of being ‘an anti-semite with fantasies of genocide’. If I am unfamiliar with the statements, it is because they are in all likelihood fabrications. The first (‘If they [the Jews] all gather in Israel it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide’) was circulated widely on neo-con websites, which give as its original source an article by Badih Chayban in Beirut’s English-language Daily Star on 23 October 2002. It seems that Chayban left the Star three years ago and moved to Washington. The Star’s managing editor writes of Chayban’s article on Nasrallah, that ‘I have faith in neither the accuracy of the translation [from Arabic to English] nor the agenda of the translator [Chayban].’ The editor-in-chief and publisher of the Star, Jamil Mrowe, adds that Chayban was ‘a reporter and briefly local desk sub and certainly did not interview Nasrallah or anyone else.’ The account of Nasrallah’s speech in the Lebanese daily As Safir for the same day makes no reference to any anti-semitic comments. Goodheart’s second quotation – ‘They [the Jews] are a cancer which is liable to spread at any moment’ – comes from the Israeli government’s website at /99hyz. For the record, a Hizbullah spokeswoman, Wafa Hoteit, denies that Nasrallah made either statement.

Source 1 by American Journalist Charles Glass

Charles Glass is an American author, journalist, and broadcaster specializing in the Middle East. He writes regularly for The Spectator, was ABC News chief Middle East correspondent from 1983-93, and has worked as a correspondent for Newsweek and The Observer. His work has appeared in newspapers and magazines, and on television networks, all over the world.

Glass is the author of Tribes With Flags: A Dangerous Passage Through the Chaos of the Middle East (1991) and a collection of essays, Money for Old Rope: Disorderly Compositions (1992). A sequel to Tribes with Flags, called The Tribes Triumphant, was published by Harper Collins in June 2006. His book on the beginning of the American war in Iraq, The Northern Front, was published in October 2006 by Saqi. His most recent book, Americans in Paris (Harper Collins), tells the story of the American citizens who chose to remain in Paris when the Germans occupied the city in 1940. He has received awards from the Overseas Press Club and the Commonwealth and George Foster Peabody Awards. [1]

One of Glass's best known stories was his 1986 interview on the tarmac of Beirut Airport of the crew of TWA Flight 847 after the flight was hijacked. He broke the news that the hijackers had removed the hostages and had hidden them in the suburbs of Beirut, which caused the Reagan administration to abort a rescue attempt that would have failed and led to loss of life at the airport. [2]

Glass himself made headlines in 1987, when he was taken hostage for 62 days in Lebanon by Hezbollah, the Shi'ite Muslim group, becoming in the process the only Western hostage in Lebanon known to have escaped, which he describes in his book, Tribes with Flags.

About Charles Glass

Shocking, no?

Oh, here is another person who has done the leg work and proven those quotes were never uttered by Nasrallah

Linky

The first quote never appears in the transcripts for this speech, nor in the paper apprentyl attributed to it. The second was not even uttered by him, but was a woman interviewing a Hizbollah MP for her Phd dissertation, who later admits she got the quote wrong anyway.

Feel free to provide more quotes, but I bet you $1000 you cannot find any shred of proof he ever said those things, aside from regurgitated claims on right-wing, evangelical or pro-Israeli websites. Any other link I look at it wioth these quotes debunks them quite effortlessly, much like the infamous Iranian presidents quote.