911, Iraq, PNAC , All roads lead to Israel...

Originally posted by JJay55
I'm not a dude. Hebrews existed well before they could be called Israelis.

Dude is a casual way of addressing people. It's even used in a unisex manner, like guy. I'll try to be more formal. Why don't you try to be a little more cordial?

Hebrew is a language. The first Jew was Abraham, I believe, who was from the city of Ur, in what is now modern day Iraq.

There is no peace in the Middle East because their laws aren't designed for peace.

I think there is some truth to what you are saying, but I am not familiar with the laws of Israel or of the Arab states. The difficulty is that although the legal systems may not be designed for peace, people themselves have the potential for peace built into them. Peace is nice. People generally prefer it to war.

People usually have to be goaded into war. I think peace in the middle east is still a live proposition. It remains to be seen if it can be achieved.

You might think they are like the West, but they are not.

People east and west are like human beings, except when they insist that they are different. That's a personal choice, not an inherent fact. Choices like that are the source of much of the world's problems. If you find the source of a choice like that it is usually some manipulator with a personal, for profit, agenda at the bottom of it all.

[edit on 5-8-2009 by ipsedixit]

Originally posted by JJay55
I am not talking about individaul muslims.

I am talking about individual human beings.

Originally posted by JJay55
But nice way to avoid the real issue of theology.

I'm not ignoring it, it's you that's making complex by involving what is written in books written by man.

Originally posted by JJay55When the time comes those partying muslims will be called to duty and they will comply to Islam.

Sorry, how many times has Jihad been called? But yet they're still out partying eh.

Ok, in order to understand terrorism and the threats of terrorism you will have to put aside emotion and feelings toward other individual humans. Yeah, I know, we all love each other deep down inside.

On 911 everything changed. For whatever reason, because the mujahadin were unemployed by the US, because OPEC took a dipstick to the oilfields, because the population doubled, because the Caliphate had too many chefs... they hired AQ to wake up America and the world. That was the line in the sand, the call to battle, the Awakening... according to them.
So in response NATO beefed up the military and made random battlefield moves against an enemy they knew little about.
Almost 10 years later Islam has not backed away from their goal. They can't. They are committed deeply, financially, intellectually, physically and spititually. They cannot back down and say... oh let's all live in peace because they don't believe coexistance is the right path. Islam has chosen (the grand mullahs, the q'tubs and all the heads of the OIC) have committed to destroy the West in favor of Islam.

Sure maybe this is a big goal but there is no way they will quit. Sure maybe their goal won't be met, but they won't stop trying. Sure they have kept right on schedule and made history on 911 and committed 15000 terrorism incidents since 911 and they won't stop. They have divided up kingdoms within Islam and appointed chiefs, one being Ghadaffi who will be king of Africa, that's documented also.

It's only Americans who are still confused, undereducated, and skeptical about this plan of Islam. Time to wake up.

Jihad means struggle, literally.
The Rules of War is a Roman concept that the West has adapted. Islam does not use the same morals and ethics. Instead Islam will use taqiyya, and urban warfare, human shields, homemade bombs and chemicals, industrial explosions, beheading, fires, and other means of mass destruction other than meeting on a battlefield in a traditional war.
Get it?

reply to post by ipsedixit


Yeah, but the fundamental differences are "kill whitey" and "forgive everyone".

Thats why christian fundamentalists are left alone and muslim fundamentalists are dangerous. It is laughable to me that people use the words "muslim extrmists" and "muslim fundamentalists" interchangeably these days, they are one in the same. Then they like to cite that christianity is "just as bad" and say "look at Koresh" as an example. That is the perfect example of the difference between fundamentalist and extremist.

Originally posted by jprophet420
reply to post by ipsedixit

 

Yeah, but the fundamental differences are "kill whitey" and "forgive everyone".

Thats why christian fundamentalists are left alone and muslim fundamentalists are dangerous. It is laughable to me that people use the words "muslim extrmists" and "muslim fundamentalists" interchangeably these days, they are one in the same. Then they like to cite that christianity is "just as bad" and say "look at Koresh" as an example. That is the perfect example of the difference between fundamentalist and extremist.

Exactly, because most people think in Western terms.
Meanwhile Islamic principle that if an Islamic land is attacked, jihad becomes fard ayn, or incumbent upon every individual believer to join or to aid in any way he can. Totally different.

I just don't take the muslim threat that seriously. I don't think that muslim extremists can mobilize the numbers. The last time the mullahs really got things going was Iran's war against Iraq. That was a horrible blood bath. I just don't think there is a big enough constituancy in Iran or anywhere else for that kind of activity.

What I think we are really witnessing in the Islamic world is the last hurrah of a medieval way of life.

[edit on 5-8-2009 by ipsedixit]

Originally posted by ipsedixit
I just don't take the muslim threat that seriously. I don't think that muslim extremists can mobilize the numbers. The last time the mullahs really got things going was Iran's war against Iraq. That was a horrible blood bath. I just don't think there is a big enough constituancy in Iran or anywhere else for that kind of activity.

What I think we are really witnessing in the Islamic world is the last hurrah of a medieval way of life.

[edit on 5-8-2009 by ipsedixit]

They haven't even planned to mobilize until 2010-2013. That's probably why you have a false sense of security. They are smart to plan that way, eh?
Meanwhile go here and see the 15000 incidents since 911:
www.thereligionofpeace.com

[edit on 5-8-2009 by JJay55]

reply to post by JJay55

The point I'm making is that the call for a war between Islam and everyone else by the religeous leaders has been called for a few times, but yet nothing.

Originally posted by ipsedixit
I just don't take the muslim threat that seriously.

No, me neither. I mean, apparently there are literally thousands of them wanting to kill us Westerners, and that may be true on foreign soil, and here we have our fair share of haters, we're not getting bombed every day, every week, or every month even.

To try and get the thread back on topic.....

911 was the Mossad. But that is not an Israeli intelligence agency per say it is a terrorist agency for the military industrial complex which feeds off of the hatred of the bigots and useful idiots concentrated in Israel. The US and Israel are not really different countries in a way. The US and Israeli agencies and their Neocon governments work for their own interests and those interests are guided by a racist, political ideology mixed up with a fascist version of a religion and Straussian philosophy. There is a total disconnect between the people of America (the sane ones) and the government. US foreign policy works for Likud Israeli interests first second and third. This is because the Zionists and MIC have overlapping financial interests. But most of all the press is Zionist. There is no war greater right now than the information war. Nothing would fix things faster than taking back the media or totally discrediting the corrupt lying fear mongering war cheerleaders we have now.

A lot of people have written about and shown the problems with official 911 story. There is the demolition of building number 7, there are the firemen's reports that the fires were almost out, there are numerous reports of secondary explosions etc. Because it has been said on radio and more so because people have made films about it, many people can recite the arguments for the inside job in their sleep. Fire burns buildings; it does not burn on the top of one for an hour or so and then blow it up in a matter of ten seconds, completely destroying everything including the foundations and leaving molten steal in the basements weeks after the event. It is physically impossible.

But what has been hidden from you and the dots which have not been connected in any 911 films is the Israeli connection. 911 has been hit with heavy disinformation. This tactic worked well for Area 51 a secretive base that was wasting trillions of dollars. Because of disinformation and a lot of idiots, if anyone said a thing about area 51 it was unfairly linked to everything from space creatures to crop circles. Currently in 911 "truth" there is disinfo spanning from Bavarian death cults, to a black pope, to lasers from outer space. Do not associate any of that nonsense with what I am saying.

What militates against Islamic extremism and the intolerance and violence practised (when it is practised) by muslims, is the facts of life in the modern world.

Societies constantly disrupted by internal political turmoil, whose populations are under educated, who routinely consign 50% of their citizens to second class and often completely segregated status can't compete in any department with modern highly integrated industrial states.

If it were not for the existence of the state of Israel, there would be almost no political issues between Islam and the west. The effort to impose the state of Israel in the middle east and the attendant military escalations, largely funded by the United States have led to the place we are now.

I'm very suspicious of the attempt to demonize Islam. I am not Muslim and I have no desire to "submit" to Mohammed's notion of who God is and what God wants. I think the Koran is a dangerous book and to be perfectly frank, I am surprised that it is allowed to be printed in Canada, considering the laws we have against inciting hatred on religious or ethnic grounds.

Having said that, I don't think that the source of our current problems is Islam or the Arabs of the middle east. I believe the real source of the trouble is oil, the west's determination to have a secure source of it and the fact that Israel is a very useful tool for the purpose.

I am all in favour of a Jewish homeland but not a Jewish nation state. If you look at the press in Israel you will find that I am not alone in this, even among Jews.

Originally posted by ipsedixit
I'm very suspicious of the attempt to demonize Islam.

Me too, and as a human being, I don't condone their actions either, however, the MSM is all too happy to give one side of the story, and it's really frustrating when you try to give the other side of the story, that people feel the need to just reiterate what we've all heard a thousands times already.

I started this thread to try and discuss the clear link from Israel to 9/11, and feel it has been hijacked to try and steer the issue away from the subject.

reply to post by Neo-V™


This thread is a copy of the previous "Bash the Israelis, Bash the Jews" anti-semitism wrapped in highly questionable conclusions. The Israelis were not involved in the attacks on 9/11!

posted by JJay55

I'm not a dude. Hebrews existed well before they could be called Israelis.
There is no peace in the Middle East because their laws aren't designed for peace. You might think they are like the West, but they are not.

Those atheistic Zionists occupying Palestine have nothing in common with the descendents of Jacob Israel. Even the Religious Jews in Palestine hate the Zionists, working against them. Even Israeli soldiers are rebelling, demonstrating against the senseless murders of Palestinian children.

There will be peace in the Middle East when the atheistic Zionists are gone.

Arabs and Jews and Christians lived side by side as neighbors for hundreds of years.

Originally posted by PGTWEED
This thread is a copy of the previous "Bash the Israelis, Bash the Jews" anti-semitism wrapped in highly questionable conclusions.

I'm sorry, but labeling me an anti-semite which you have basically done is the same as calling someone a racist who criticizes Islam. This thread, and when ever I post a thread in regards to Israel, it is to highlight the wrongs of it's Government, not a race of people of Jewish decent.

Your comment is the usual typical slanderous garbage that threatens free speech, if there is one place on the Internet I thought I would have escaped that, you'd think would be ATS, but obviously not.

And any way, Of course I'm anti-Semitic? Aren't you?

Originally posted by PGTWEEDThe Israelis were not involved in the attacks on 9/11!

That is your opinion, and unless you've got anything to refute the pretty solid argument Ryan Dawson has presented, you shall not alter my belief.

reply to post by PGTWEED

This thread is a copy of the previous "Bash the Israelis, Bash the Jews" anti-semitism wrapped in highly questionable conclusions. The Israelis were not involved in the attacks on 9/11!

I'm not sure how to respond to this but I think it should be answered.

First of all is this poster a young person or a newbie who hasn't researched 9/11? Such a person can often be confused with the sort of denier of the facts that battles in the trenches jail house lawyer style to defend the perps, even if it means trotting out the Jewish version of the "race card."

If you are the first sort of person, or a newbie, you need to know that five israelis were sent to New York by the israeli government to, in their own words, "document the event". They were seen by a witness "high fiving one another" after the buildings came down. They gave an interview about it on israeli television, telling their story. They are believed to have been working for Mossad.

A jailhouse lawyer type might say, "This proves nothing. My clients did nothing more than thousands of other New Yorkers were doing with their own movie cameras that morning. These men are innocent. Israel warned the American government about a coming attack more than once, as did tens of other governments (documented by Paul Thompson.) Israel warned the American government.

To understand why the warnings weren't heeded and why "warning the government" isn't quite the noble thing one might think, just substitute the words "the perps" for "the American government."

At the very least, Israel was so sure that those buildings were going to come down that morning that they sent a team of people to film the collapse.

A friendly government, who was that sure of what was going to happen to those buildings, would have sent a team of agents into New York to flood the switchboards of local police stations with bomb threats on the twin towers in an effort to get the buildings evacuated before the attack.

Hell, even the IRA, in the vast majority of their attacks on the British, phoned in bomb threats or tip-offs in advance of the explosions, to get the police to evacuate the areas to minimize civilian casualties. Not Israel.

Here are some of the arrested israelis on israeli television, admitting what they were doing.



I know there is no point addressing a "jailhouse lawyer", but if you are a newbie or a person who hasn't done much research into 9/11, research will uncover more evidence of israeli involvment in the 9/11 operation.

Qui bono? Was Israel a beneficiary of 9/11? To give a partial answer, just ask yourself "Where is Saddam now?"

Ok, so everyone wasn't included in the inside operation of 911... now they are all having a spaz?

Really the focus should be on future events instead of dwelling in the past for personal safety. If we know the events of 911 we will know how to protect ourselves in future attacks.

Originally posted by JJay55
Really the focus should be on future events instead of dwelling in the past for personal safety.

It's good to focus on what might happen but I think it is better to keep most of our attention on what's going on right now. When things happen it is in the right now.

But really we need to have a panoramic vision including past present and potential futures. People who don't know history are doomed to repeat it. Some people believe criminals should be made to pay for their crimes or at the very least that society should be protected from continued criminal activity by someone who has committed a crime, especially a serious crime.

If the perpetrators of 9/11 had been arrested in the months that followed 9/11, hundreds of thousands of innocent lives in Iraq might have been saved. Trillions of dollars from the US treasury might have been saved.

America might have taken a step to remove the shadow of the criminals who have controlled the country since the assassination of JFK from the scene.

In other news, scientists in Israel have come up with a treatment for bees suffering from the virus that causes colony collapse disorder.

www.israel21c.org...:technology&Itemid=62

I certainly don't advocate arresting anybody for doing that. It's a fantastic achievement that will benefit everyone. "High fives" to Israel and the israeli scientists.

Maybe a new 9/11 truth comission should be formed in Israel. Maybe they could get to the bottom of the story.

Has there been an inquiry of any sort in Israel? Has the question of Israeli government involvement been raised in Israel, I mean other than an admission by some young men that they were sent to document the event? Just asking.

Maybe the lack of an inquiry is another example of the widespread incidence of cranium collapse disorder that spread like wildfire in the media, the police, the insurance industry, the congress, etc., in the US after 9/11.

[edit on 6-8-2009 by ipsedixit]

Originally posted by Neo-V™

Originally posted by PGTWEED
This thread is a copy of the previous "Bash the Israelis, Bash the Jews" anti-semitism wrapped in highly questionable conclusions.

I'm sorry, but labeling me an anti-semite which you have basically done is the same as calling someone a racist who criticizes Islam. This thread, and when ever I post a thread in regards to Israel, it is to highlight the wrongs of it's Government, not a race of people of Jewish decent.

Your comment is the usual typical slanderous garbage that threatens free speech, if there is one place on the Internet I thought I would have escaped that, you'd think would be ATS, but obviously not.

And any way, Of course I'm anti-Semitic? Aren't you?

Originally posted by PGTWEEDThe Israelis were not involved in the attacks on 9/11!

That is your opinion, and unless you've got anything to refute the pretty solid argument Ryan Dawson has presented, you shall not alter my belief.

Your use of the term Zionists is the same as Saddam Hussein's. I highly doubt you are using the the word to describe the Arabs and Christians in Israel!

Originally posted by ipsedixit

Originally posted by JJay55
Really the focus should be on future events instead of dwelling in the past for personal safety.

It's good to focus on what might happen but I think it is better to keep most of our attention on what's going on right now. When things happen it is in the right now.

But really we need to have a panoramic vision including past present and potential futures. People who don't know history are doomed to repeat it. Some people believe criminals should be made to pay for their crimes or at the very least that society should be protected from continued criminal activity by someone who has committed a crime, especially a serious crime.

If the perpetrators of 9/11 had been arrested in the months that followed 9/11, hundreds of thousands of innocent lives in Iraq might have been saved. Trillions of dollars from the US treasury might have been saved.

America might have taken a step to remove the shadow of the criminals who have controlled the country since the assassination of JFK from the scene.

In other news, scientists in Israel have come up with a treatment for bees suffering from the virus that causes colony collapse disorder.

www.israel21c.org...:technology&Itemid=62

I certainly don't advocate arresting anybody for doing that. It's a fantastic achievement that will benefit everyone. "High fives" to Israel and the israeli scientists.

Maybe a new 9/11 truth comission should be formed in Israel. Maybe they could get to the bottom of the story.

Has there been an inquiry of any sort in Israel? Has the question of Israeli government involvement been raised in Israel, I mean other than an admission by some young men that they were sent to document the event? Just asking.

Maybe the lack of an inquiry is another example of the widespread incidence of cranium collapse disorder that spread like wildfire in the media, the police, the insurance industry, the congress, etc., in the US after 9/11.

[edit on 6-8-2009 by ipsedixit]

True, the Israeli Intelligence agents warned their American counter-parts that the US was about to be attacked by Radical Muslim Extremists. The American reply to their warning... "Thank you. We will take it under advisement."