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There is only ONE unpardonable sin in the Bible

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posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 02:10 AM
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Preliminary note to aggressive athiests: yeah, yeah, sky faries, imaginariy tales, inb4 too weak to think for yourself, etc. We get it. Peace, bro.

For those of us more interested in the nuance of doctriene, I've always found the concept of there being a SINGLE unpardonable sin both fascinating and terrifying. The blood of Christ washes away the sins of the repenters, sure...but what if you committitted the UNPARDONABLE SIN and wanted to be washed in the blood of lamb but couldn't?

What, exactly, is this sin that prevents all parndon, even as Christ clasps repentant child molesters and serial torturuers to his chest?


LUKE 12:10: "And everyone that says a word against the Son of Man, that will be forgiven; But he that blasphemes against The Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
MARK 3:29: "Whoever blasphemes against The Holy Spirit will never have forgiveness, but is guilty of everlasting sin."
MATTHEW 12: 31-32: "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come".

This is some hardcore stuff they are laying down.

AND YET... these definitions seem somehow...well, a bit vague to me. For example, how does a man literally committ this sin? What leads him to it ? Can it be comitted uknowingly? Is it often comitted? What is its fundamental nature? Why of all sins is this the ONLY unpardonable one?

Thoughts?




posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 02:32 AM
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Hmm. Seems like putting a middle finger to the sky and telling the holy spirit to go die would prolly guarantee eternal damnation. Its not so bad though. I did it a bunch of times.



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 02:35 AM
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I am just jumping in because I was allways curious about this one too.....

I know the FRUITS of the holy spirit are love, joy, peace, etc, et, etc..... so sometimes I wonder if mental abuse could be it (intentional mental abuse) because I sure know the mental abuse I went trhough killed those aspects in me many times......I had to fight to be happy again after abuse and trauma over and over again...so I kinda thought purposeful mental abuse, killing someones joy over and over on purpose???

JUST a guess though, would love to see opinions too.



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 02:39 AM
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Words of man to control man. Yes, the original scripture, probably had some wise things in. But the rehashed bible for mass control is no mark to stand by. All the good bits got taken out, all the stuff that actually ment anything. All that was left was a few moral stories, and some damnation. That is not, I believe, the true work of God.

When I was athiest/agnostic. I'd often tell God to go # himself. Scream HA # YOU and silly things like that. I was young and foolish, for sure. but I certainly don't think that it's earnt me an eternity in hellfire


That's just daft.



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 02:43 AM
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reply to post by silent thunder
 


I completely forgot this one. Let's say that for some reason the christian god is real, and I decide to turn christian. since i was an atheist, and have obviously committed blasphemy, then it means i'm basically screwed right?

hypothetically speaking, it wouldn't make any difference for me anymore if i turned christian in 40-50 years, because i would still be damned to hell.
wow, this really makes me wonder if christians read this part of the bible, they should give up on atheists since we literally have no hope left if the bible happens to be accurate



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 02:45 AM
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So if you unknowingly do this and one day decide to get religion you can go as far as LUKE and MATTHEW only to find out your screwed. I don't understand God punishing somebody that didn't know the facts.



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 02:46 AM
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I understand blasphemy to mean making a mockery of God, cursing God or lying about God. It is some hard core stuff, knowing that you will never be forgiven for a sin that is a "slip of the tongue" sometimes. The act of blasphemy is voicing a damnation of God, literally. It is often committed by some, I know I have blasphemed the Lord many, many, many....times. The fundamental nature of blasphemy, in my opinion, is that it is an abomination to everything spiritual.

So, what happens if you are guilty of blasphemy and never forgiven. If you believe in an afterlife, does that mean you are damned to the grave forever and eternity?



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 02:48 AM
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Originally posted by newworld
reply to post by silent thunder
 


I completely forgot this one. Let's say that for some reason the christian god is real, and I decide to turn christian. since i was an atheist, and have obviously committed blasphemy, then it means i'm basically screwed right?

hypothetically speaking, it wouldn't make any difference for me anymore if i turned christian in 40-50 years, because i would still be damned to hell.
wow, this really makes me wonder if christians read this part of the bible, they should give up on atheists since we literally have no hope left if the bible happens to be accurate


Being an athiest is not an unpardonable sin. Repentant athiests are welcomed back into the Church. This was decicively settled at the end of the Late Antique period with the Donatist controversy.

You take Christans to task for not even reading the bible, but it seems you may not have read my OP very carefully. Again, athiesim is not unpardonable, and neither (as spelled out in the bible) is blasphemy, Its just this one mysterious sin specificually directed not against God in general but THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Why was this aspect of miscoduct so structly singled out by the apostolocs?



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 02:49 AM
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Originally posted by silent thunder
Preliminary note to aggressive athiests: yeah, yeah, sky faries, imaginariy tales, inb4 too weak to think for yourself, etc. We get it. Peace, bro.

For those of us more interested in the nuance of doctriene, I've always found the concept of there being a SINGLE unpardonable sin both fascinating and terrifying. The blood of Christ washes away the sins of the repenters, sure...but what if you committitted the UNPARDONABLE SIN and wanted to be washed in the blood of lamb but couldn't?

What, exactly, is this sin that prevents all parndon, even as Christ clasps repentant child molesters and serial torturuers to his chest?


LUKE 12:10: "And everyone that says a word against the Son of Man, that will be forgiven; But he that blasphemes against The Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
MARK 3:29: "Whoever blasphemes against The Holy Spirit will never have forgiveness, but is guilty of everlasting sin."
MATTHEW 12: 31-32: "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come".

This is some hardcore stuff they are laying down.

AND YET... these definitions seem somehow...well, a bit vague to me. For example, how does a man literally committ this sin? What leads him to it ? Can it be comitted uknowingly? Is it often comitted? What is its fundamental nature? Why of all sins is this the ONLY unpardonable one?

Thoughts?


Great question.

Think about this for a moment.

What does holy mean?

How can one send away what they don' know?



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 02:54 AM
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Originally posted by Mr. Toodles
Hmm. Seems like putting a middle finger to the sky and telling the holy spirit to go die would prolly guarantee eternal damnation. Its not so bad though. I did it a bunch of times.


Nope, that wouldn't do squat, the Holy Spirit confirms things to your soul, apparently you've not experienced it in your lifetime? well you probably will someday, what it feels like is described differently by different people so I won't be able to tell you exactly how it will feel for you or happen to you, but to me, the Holy Spirit confirmed and spoke without words by how I would describe as playing a guitar string and the note kept playing for minutes later, the guitar string was I would describe as my soul, that's the best way I can describe it, and I suppose to deny that happened would be a sin, I don't think I'm required to tell people about it, but I do just to share the rarest experience I've ever experienced, it was cool to put it bluntly, I've seen UFOs and it was way better than that, I've never seen an ET but if I did I'd be happy to talk about that too, paranormal? yes but doesn't mean it didn't happen, what I learned is that I can't expect anyone to believe me, the only people that can even relate are people that have had similar experiences, I guess I don't know exactly how I could deny that experience, but if given the chance I know I wouldn't deny it, the only extreme case I can think of is if someone knew by the power of the Holy Ghost that Jesus was the Christ and someone asked them to deny it or die, but even in that case I can see them being forgiven because the fear would drive anyone to do and say anything, I suppose only those who volunteer to deny what they know to be true, only those would have a chance at denying. So even attempting this sin I would say is probably not easy to do.



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 03:01 AM
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reply to post by silent thunder
 


I was catholic before, so I am somewhat familiar with some of the beliefs (such as atheists and other members of other religions being welcome into the faith). but for some reason, as far as i noticed, most preachers seem to skip over this one command of not committing blasphemy against the holy spirit.

the question is, who EXACTLY is the holy spirit? according to catholic belief, the holy spirit is part of the holy trinity, which means that insulting the holy spirit would logically be the same as insulting god.

If the holy spirit is not one with god (as the holy trinity implies) then does that mean that atheists and others can freely speak ill of the christian god without punishment?

I committed (as many atheist have) blasphemy against this god. so, if, for the sake of argument the god of the bible is real, then I among others WOULD basically be screwed if the holy trinity concept happens to be true.



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 03:04 AM
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Originally posted by silent thunder

Originally posted by newworld
reply to post by silent thunder
 


I completely forgot this one. Let's say that for some reason the christian god is real, and I decide to turn christian. since i was an atheist, and have obviously committed blasphemy, then it means i'm basically screwed right?

hypothetically speaking, it wouldn't make any difference for me anymore if i turned christian in 40-50 years, because i would still be damned to hell.
wow, this really makes me wonder if christians read this part of the bible, they should give up on atheists since we literally have no hope left if the bible happens to be accurate


Being an athiest is not an unpardonable sin. Repentant athiests are welcomed back into the Church. This was decicively settled at the end of the Late Antique period with the Donatist controversy.

You take Christans to task for not even reading the bible, but it seems you may not have read my OP very carefully. Again, athiesim is not unpardonable, and neither (as spelled out in the bible) is blasphemy, Its just this one mysterious sin specificually directed not against God in general but THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Why was this aspect of miscoduct so structly singled out by the apostolocs?


You know when Jesus says "Truly truly"?

Truly truly, life is here...for we know no other.
Truly truly, this life that we know goes forth generation to generation.
Truly truly, this life we have is freely given.
Truly truly, it takes a man and a woman to join as one in conception to produce a new creature on the earth.
Truly truly, our health is our vitality and strength.
Truly truly, we must bear children to cross our own lives meaning Jordan, that is "to descend" so that they are ascending time.
Truly truly, New Jerusalem is a new born, it comes down out of heaven when the curtains are ripped top to bottom.

Truly truly knowing these things, what is the unpardonable sin?



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 03:04 AM
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Just found this...not sure what to make of it but maybe it can shed some light on the subject.



Just What Is “The Unpardonable Sin”?

Jesus spoke of a sin that “shall not be forgiven...neither in this world, neither in the world to come” (Matt. 12:31-32). This sin is most often referred to as “the unpardonable sin.”

Widespread confusion surrounds this subject. So many people worry that they may have committed, or did commit, the unpardonable sin. Yet most have not known how to recognize the sin that “shall not be forgiven.”

As a longtime pastor who has worked with many thousands, I have counseled scores of people who were racked with fear, anxiety and concern that they were guilty of this sin. It was often very painful to watch confusion, misunderstanding and guilt unnecessarily grip people who still sincerely wanted to serve God, after believing they had committed this unforgivable sin. In many cases, they were absolutely certain that they were guilty of it. Invariably, after counseling with them, it was clear that they were not. But convincing them of this was sometimes not easy.

I have often had to explain that the very act of being concerned is its own proof that one has not gone far enough to be guilty of this sin....

[snip]


Christ Explains Blaspheming the Holy Spirit

Throughout His ministry, Christ was attacked and accused by religious leaders who felt threatened by what He taught.

On one occasion, Christ had healed a blind and dumb, demon-possessed man. The onlookers were amazed when this man could suddenly see and speak. As a result, the scribes and Pharisees “went out, and held a council against Him, how they might destroy Him” (Matt. 12:14). Shortly after this, a Pharisee confronted Christ with a question about where His power to perform this healing came from—and accused Him of casting out demons by the power of Satan: “But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow does not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils” (vs. 24).

Christ knew exactly what was happening and saw their motives were to deliberately attack and accuse (vs. 25). So He explained how Satan’s kingdom could not be divided and survive—“stand.” He continued, “He that is not with Me is against Me; and he that gathers not with Me scatters abroad” (vs. 30).

Incidentally, this means that Christ’s Church is unified. Some become confused about this. Consider. Even Satan knows that his kingdom cannot be divided and remain “standing.” Certainly, Christ is at least as smart as the devil! People either gather where Christ is gathering, or they are not part of His Church!

This background introduces Christ’s oft-misunderstood statement about the unforgivable sin. Let’s read it: “Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come” (vs. 31-32).

Mark’s account concludes in a slightly different way, so it is also helpful to read: “Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit has never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation” (3:28-29).

Matthew explains that “all manner of sin and blasphemy” shall be forgiven, but that “blasphemy and speaking against the Holy Spirit” are unpardonable—unforgivable. It is critical to know that the Greek word used for blasphemy is the same, whether it is against the Holy Spirit or the Son of man. The key must be who or what is spoken or blasphemed against, not the act itself.

What is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit? Is it simply taking God’s name in vain—swearing? Is any form of swearing “blasphemy against the Holy Spirit”?

The key to understanding this is to properly define the word blaspheme. The Greek word, here translated “blaspheme,” means “intentional indignity offered to God or sacred things.” This is important to grasp. Intent is involved.

The scribes and Pharisees knew exactly what they were doing. Remember, they held a council for the specific purpose of plotting against Christ. Their actions were not a result of sudden anger or impulsive, short-sighted thinking. They had intent—pre-meditated and deliberate INTENT—to discredit and murder Christ, even though they knew He was sent from God and acted through God’s power!

Some sins are committed because they have been carefully thought out toward a particular end. Deliberate planning has been involved, as with the Pharisees. When such willful, pre-meditated intent comes into play, one is in grave “danger of eternal damnation.”

Many ask if non-Christians can commit the unpardonable sin. The Pharisees were certainly not converted—not Christians. Yet Christ said their intent placed them in danger of committing this sin. There is the answer!

Many religious leaders today, who profess to believe in Christ, are modern “Pharisees.” They deliberately misrepresent our doctrines—and deliberately call us false prophets. This Work of God is reaching people in most countries of the world in ever-increasing numbers. These false prophets, from the false “Christianity” of this world, love to accuse us of being false prophets, because they, like the scribes and Pharisees who were threatened by Christ’s teaching and healing, are threatened by the good works of truth that we are teaching.

Herein lies another irony that will be better understood later in the booklet. All who are still concerned that they have committed the unpardonable sin almost certainly have not. But many who are not concerned may either have committed it or are in danger of doing so!

Anyone can foolishly curse or use God’s name in vain, and almost immediately be sorry about it and repent. But the unpardonable sin is when a person deliberately hardens himself against God’s Spirit, and the power and guidance of that Spirit. Usually, such people become deceived (Heb. 3:13) early in this process, but later willfully choose to continue in their actions until they destroy both their conscience and any further desire to repent.





More at source:
www.thercg.org...



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 03:09 AM
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I'm no theoligeanic master but from what I understand is that
any one who professes to know the Christ, his works and his Father
and who witnesses the holy powers of them and yet denies their power,
their holiness and rejects the notion of the innate goodness of Christ
and his Father (i.e. considering them evil) for all humanity is GUILTY
of the Unpardonable Sin.

IN other words if one has been given the knowledge of the Christ
and His Father and knowing that Christ was sent to us to bear the
burden of ALL our sins upon his singular shoulders (i.e. taking one for the
team so to speak), if you so REJECT the notion that his sacrifice
was for our greater good THEN you have committed the greatest
sin of all --- You have basically said that Christ died in vain and
for nothing...........THAT is a sin that cannot be forgiven.

Using an analogy, lets us say that you and your spouse have worked
10 years to save and scrimp for a house and your children have WITNESSED
and KNOW of the pain and self-sacrifice of that effort AND that all in
the family have BENEFITTED from that sacrifice....imagine the anger,
the betrayal and the hurt that YOU would feel if ONE of the children
of your household (who have CLEARLY benefitted from your sacrifice!)
not only belittled and complained, but then proceeded to BURN DOWN
what took you so long to build up for the mere desire to show you up
as "being an idiot, a time waster and of no benefit to themselves".

Even IF it is my own child, the betrayal and anger I would feel
against such an ungrateful child would basically make me SOOO MAD
that they would be banished from my life forever --- they would never
be allowed to see, hear or ask of my help EVER again!

If you betray the confidence of Christ and his Father KNOWING that
their works benefited you (i.e. burning down HIS house in a spiteful
and ungrateful manner) then I think I can understand why that ACT
or SIN could be considered unpardonable.

I hope this helps explain what I feel!



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 03:18 AM
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reply to post by StargateSG7
 

So the "unpardonable sin" would only be applicable to someone who claims to follow the messiah and not people who do not believe in this stuff? Or does that mean that people who are told that "jesus is the only lord and savior etc" and "reject" the message are the ones who committed the "unpardonable sin"?

I do not believe jesus existed, and if he did he was just a very outspoken jew who professed equality. I don't think jesus's sacrifice made any difference, does that mean i would be screwed if the christian god was real?



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 03:31 AM
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reply to post by silent thunder
 


Dear silent thunder

One day may be someone will explain to me what the holy sprit is, I remember Sunday school it was always God the Father Good the son and the holy sprit.

It never was explained to me, I guess most likely because no one knew.

Anyway quite honestly I really wouldn’t worry about it, simply because if by some off chance you should just make it into heaven it is my opinion that you will be very lonely.

Because with all the guilt the Church put upon you I think very few will make it. But should you make it say hello to my gran for me as she is the only one I have ever know that would stand the slightest chance.



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 03:42 AM
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Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit can only be committed by someone who has been baptised by the Holy Spirit. This means, you've repented, been baptised in the name of Jesus by water, and recieved the Holy Spirit. This act acknowledges that you know without a doubt that God is real and good. The Holy Spirit is a guide to help you in your choices as a christian. If for some reason, a fully converted "aware" christian falls away and curses the Holy Spirit... which was dwelling inside of them.... then they recieve the unpardonable sin. All sins are wiped clean at death... except this one for christians. Why is this? Well, there are two resurrections spoken of in the bible. The first is for those with the Holy Spirit.... the few fully converted christains that existed throughout history. The second resurrection is the general or judgement resurrection in which all are shown the truth and at that time accept or deny God. To accept, you become part of the Kingdom. To deny, you burn up and die your second death in the lake of fire (not eternal suffering... but eternal death (damnation.. you cease to exist)). Those who were full christain converts that fell away and cursed the HS will not take part in the first resurrection, but will in the second. Instead of being given another chance, they will immediately be charged with blasphemy, as their sin was not wiped clean at their death. They were a chosen people who turned their backs on God. As JesusisTruth said before, how can you blaspheme something you don't know or have? To blaspheme the Holy Spirit, you must be baptised by the Holy Spirit and have It dwelling in you.



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 01:48 PM
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Good thing I was not baptized when my mother made me a mormon as a child. My brother however...he is screwed lol



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 04:43 PM
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in order for you to know if you've commited blasphemy of the holy spirit you have to know what it is.....


If you'd like to know I'll tell you it's simple... Here it goes!

If you have spoken irreverently towards the:

"Holy Spirit (of GOD)"

where does the holy spirit come from? It comes from God!!!!!

It is God's Active Force.... HERE ON EARTH!

Active Force = something that is in progress!


what is in progress ? it is the establishment of Gods Character (as in Characteristics) her on earth and also his KINGDOM which has many mansions which he has prepared. every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess. Remember!!!

We as people love our brothers and sisters, we are all brothers and sisters.... You follow me!!!

The different ways that churches administer to people are all acceptable to GOD... christianity, judiasm, morman, jehovas witnesses, methodists, penticostle, baptist, nazarines, and so on etc... there are differences in administration (their policies) but the same ("LORD")..... and Diversities of Operations but it is the same ("GOD") that worketh all in all.....

These are GODS MANSIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THE(" HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD") HIS ACTIVE FORCE HAS BUILT THEM ALL ("GODS MANSIONS") AND THEY ARE ALL PLEASING TO HIM.......

HOW DARE YOU DISRESPECT ANY OF THEM!!!! HOW DARE YOU DISRESPECT THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD WHICH FATHERS ALL CHURCHES AND RELIGIONS AND BUILT THEM ALL FOR THE (BETTERMENT) OF MANKIND.

BLASPHEMY AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT IS UNFORGIVIBLE AND IS OUTRIGHT DISRESPECT AGAINST GOD AND PEOPLE (HIS CHILDREN)

MAY THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD REACH EVERY CORNER OF THE EARTH AND ADMINISTER TO THE PEOPLE THROUGH WHATEVER OPERATION REACHES AND SAVES THEM FIRST. I SUPPORT IT



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 05:27 PM
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Im a bit on the fence with this one. Not because i dont agree that it is wrong but the fact that so many people think that the Bible has been tampered with by the catholic church and with that it really is confusing and in a way we will never know the whole truth about our own Bible which is very very sad.



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