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I, a U.S. citizen, was arrested by a U.S. Border Patrol Agent today

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posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by 27jd

You talk about guns being a right, and they are under the 2nd amendment. Another right, that is listed only 2 down on that SAME "goddamn piece of paper", is the 4th amendment.


The 4th amendment - - and how it does not apply to the Border Patrol has already been covered.

Do you have new information?




posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by js331975
So your driving from California...To Arizona...And you encountered border patrol agents? So.....Bp's are patrolling all of Arizona's borders?

Wow what a way to waste money.


They operate various checkpoints on major roads within 100 miles, they are looking for vehicles carrying illegal immigrants, and they just wave you through, if they have a citizenship question they ask and that's it. They do NOT bring dogs around every car, except in Yuma county, and only recently have they began to target citizens on a mass scale there. Any other checkpoint you encounter, the BP do not have the authority to arrest U.S. citizens, regardless of what many government cheerleaders here say. Only in Yuma county are they deputized to do so, and the situation there is completely unique and a violation of the constitution, plain and simple.



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by Annee
The 4th amendment - - and how it does not apply to the Border Patrol has already been covered.

Do you have new information?


It doesn't apply to the Border Patrol ONLY for the purpose of stopping ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. It's a loophole, and there are NO other BP checkpoints that do this. And that non-application to the BP was passed under the Bush admin, after 9-11. Beach goers on their way back from vacation DID NOT bring down the towers, the loophole is being used in a way that VIOLATES our rights, in ONE county. Nowhere else would this happen, period.

I wonder what OTHER loopholes the government will create to get around the constitution, at least they can count on your support. Hopefully something in your lifestyle becomes illegal, and you are subject to such a violation. Only then will you understand, obviously.

[edit on 5-8-2009 by 27jd]



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by Annee
The 4th amendment - - and how it does not apply to the Border Patrol has already been covered.

Do you have new information?


It doesn't apply to the Border Patrol ONLY for the purpose of stopping ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. It's a loophole, and there are NO other BP checkpoints that do this. And that non-application to the BP was passed under the Bush admin, after 9-11. Beach goers on their way back from vacation DID NOT bring down the towers, the loophole is being used in a way that VIOLATES our rights, in ONE county. Nowhere else would this happen, period.

I wonder what OTHER loopholes the government will create to get around the constitution, at least they can count on your support. Hopefully something in your lifestyle becomes illegal, and you are subject to such a violation. Only then will you understand, obviously.

[edit on 5-8-2009 by 27jd]


Well - I am no fan of Bush. Or of the Patriot Act - - or whatever.

But - I'm still not seeing this as you present it - - - and I was stopped too.



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by JBA2848
reply to post by harrytuttle
 

How are they to decide if a person has crossed the border or not US citizens also cross the border not just Mexicans.

There is an easy answer to your question: They should decide that at the border.

The government's ignorance of information is not an excuse for them to violate our constitutional rights so they can alleviate their ignorance. If they don't know something about me, then tough ****.

If they want to know whether someone crossed the border, then all they have to do is monitor the border. If the U.S. Government isn't keeping an eye on the border, that doesn't give them the right to turn inside our borders and treat us all as criminal suspects.

[edit on 5-8-2009 by harrytuttle]



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 05:35 PM
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I think that's a result of our apathy towards violations of the Constitution. We're OK with it, when we think it's all about drugs or illegal immigrants. We don't understand that there's no way to identify a citizen or drug user, without stopping and searching them, or checking their papers, or whatever. That means US citizens, who are completely clean, will have to be stopped and checked, just to make sure they're not an illegal immigrant or a drug dealer.

I have repeatedly heard people say, "Oh, well, it's OK, it only applies to dope peddlers or illegals, it doesn't apply to *us*". Wrong. No one carries a sign identifying themselves as a dealer or an illegal. In order to find those, they have to check us. All of us.

When we allow the Constitution to be violated in order to catch drug dealers, illegals, "terrorists", weapons smugglers, etc. - we are waiving our rights, as well. It is inevitable. It's easy to say, "Well, I've got nothing to hide", but do you really want to get stopped for an hour - heck, even fifteen minutes - while they determine you're OK? And what about some neurotic dog that just happens to flag your car? You want them to tear it apart looking for drugs that don't exist? Oh, gee, guess you didn't have any drugs. Sorry about your car. We'll mail the pieces back to you eventually.

We agreed to this, when we decided to allow the Government to protect us from drugs, weapons, terrorists, and - of course - the dreaded Illegal Immigrants. I mean, what if some illegal came and stole a job no one wanted? One fears to think of what might happen then.



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 05:37 PM
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Why would there be border patrol check points that are not on the border? .. I am assuming from AZ to CA you are not traveling through Mexico .. so why a border patrol checkpoint?



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by Annee
But - I'm still not seeing this as you present it - - - and I was stopped too.


How can you not see it? The purpose for being able to use dogs on every vehicle, is to catch illegal immigrants, that's it. The secondary language about drugs, is meant to catch large amounts of drugs being smuggled in by illegal aliens, it was NOT meant to target U.S. citizens, who are not supposed to be subject to this kind of search, but in this county, the loophole has become an assembly line. It has NOTHING to do with safety because they weren't even interested in whether I was driving under the influence, they just send you on your way with the ticket and court date. How can you not see that is wrong? Again, PLEASE read the article I posted, it's long but it is informative...



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 05:39 PM
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First, I just want to say that I do not agree with your attempt to divorce the reason that you were arrested from just the event of being arrested.

However, I do agree with your argument that the checkpoint was probably set up as a county profit center. Along with that, the more than willing officers to play the part of gestapo. I'm going to make a generalization here, that as a group, law enforcement officers have succeeded in their attempt to create an adversarial relationship between themselves and the rest of us. For whatever reason, they have decided to move away from peace officer and towards a fully functioning military body. In my opinion, all governing bodies should: 1) Require male officers to maintain their hair in a more civilian manner, meaning high-and-tights are banned. The more you look like the military, the more you'll act like it and the more you'll be treated like it. 2) Require officers to have lived no less than 25-30 miles from where they lived most of their lives prior to becoming an officer. The less attached one is to a community, the easier it is to be less compassionate to the locals, and quicker to mete out taser justice rather than devising meaningful solutions to problems. 3) When possible, do away with the police cruiser. That car only serves to further detach an officer from their populace, and sets up the community to be viewed as a Vietnam-like series of hot LZ's, where the officer swoops in and pounces on the "enemy".

There are times and situations that call for a military-like response, but those incidences should be left to specialized teams such as SWAT, which I believe are usually not your run of the mill officer, and therefore possess a different mindset, I should hope.



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 05:39 PM
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Look man you broke the law you were stupid enough to be carrying at a checkpoint with dogs. I have been searched by border patrol in Arizona they were nice to me and I wasn't breaking the law so they let me go. ( I actual don't blame them it was 3 am out of state plates etc...)

It doesn't matter if it was a "small amount" its illegal. You purchase perpetuates a violent drug smuggling gang culture in the southwest. Unless you grow it yourself you are as guilty as the gangs and I blame YOU for rampant crime out here as much as the gangs.

Grow up. Your mentality is what is wrong with this country. Like the previous poster said you can't divoce the reason why you were arrested from the argument.

[edit on 5-8-2009 by drock905]



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 05:40 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


No border with mexico at all, not even close, the interstate goes from AZ to southern CA, but at no point does it ever get within 20-30 miles of mexico...i was deep in AZ when i encountered the checkpoint...



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by JBA2848
reply to post by John Matrix
 


If you've been caught at an Arizona Immigration Checkpoint…


Drug Dogs Aren't Always Right
Often, at border patrol checkpoints, police and U.S. border patrol agents will bring drug dogs around all the cars. If the dogs alert, it could lead to your arrest. At Cates, Hanson, Sargeant & Rakestraw, we've had past successes challenging the use of drug dogs to discover drugs.

While these dogs are used often at immigration checkpoints, they're not always right. Sometimes drug dogs are improperly trained. They may be overworked or triggered into alerting by their over-eager handlers. If a drug dog was used in your case, we'll look carefully to make sure that your rights weren't violated. And we'll make that evidence from an illegal search and seizure never enters the courtroom.


Even attorneys are not arguing the fact that drug dogs can be used or if the border patrol has a right to stop you.


Why is this addressed to me? I don't see how it relates to any of my posts. You are not quoting me above, so what gives?



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 05:48 PM
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Just because your in a Amercian car doesn't mean squat to a border patrol agent. How many cars are stolen and driven across the border every day?
AZ has the worst car theft in the country. Not a problem for someone to steal a car, and drive it to Mexico to get some drugs and try to use it to sneak back. But just because your in an American car you think you shouldn't be searched? Then every person trying to do a drug run would make sure they had US license plates.



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by drock905
I have been searched by border patrol in Arizona they were nice to me and I wasn't breaking the law so they let me go. ( I actual don't blame them it was 3 am out of state plates etc...)

So you would be cool if a S.W.A.T. team came into your home in the middle of the night while you are sleeping with your naked wife/girlfriend to search your home for illegal paraphernalia? I mean, you'd be "cool" with that since you aren't doing anything illegal, and they would "let you go" anyways?

I mean, how could you blame them for wanting to search your home, after all, your Internet Search Provider reported to The Department of Homeland Security that you were reading a post at ATS that was discussing defiance of searches & seizures of people transporting drugs across state lines. So you can understand the State's concern and suspicion that you might be up to no good, right?

You'd be "cool" with that, eh? Great....

*knock, knock, knock*



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by drock905
Grow up your mentality is what is wrong with this country.


Oh no. It's actually YOUR mentality that is wrong. It's YOUR mentality to obsess over the lives of others, to accept the BS you've been fed by corporate interests as fact, and support their prosecution of crimes where the only victim is the corporate fat cat who loses some beer sales, or big pharma companies who manipulate laws for THEIR gain through lobbying, and turn otherwise law abiding citizens into criminals in the eyes of the brainless masses. It's YOUR mentality that keeps the violent drug gangs in business, because people WILL buy drugs, regardless how wrong you think it is. It can either be a legitimate taxable business, or one that makes money for hardcore criminals, and harms good people. Mind your business, this is about the 4th amendment, and obviously your position is that this is okay, thanks for the input, as for your judgement of me, again I say, piss off.



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 05:52 PM
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reply to post by nixie_nox
 


ONCE AGAIN...I was NOWHERE near the US/Mexican border. I never left the country, at all. Jesus, please read before posting...



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 05:53 PM
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I would take a look here: Border Patrol Blotter for this last week

In case you don't want to, I'll post a couple of them for you. Your location is not the only place that USC (US Citizens) get arrested. It usually IS related to drugs, it would seem. They're all over.

Marfa Sector – Border Patrol agents seized 2 pounds of marijuana valued at $1,648, a 1991 Ford van, three unloaded handguns, and arrested two USCs at the traffic checkpoint near Sierra Blanca, Texas. The subjects presented themselves for inspection and a search revealed the weapons and marijuana in the vehicle. Records checks on one subject revealed an extensive criminal history including convictions for falsifying checks, burglary, forgery with intent to defraud and resisting arrest.


Rio Grande Valley Sector – Border Patrol agents seized 32.40 pounds of Mexican Brown heroin valued at $2,592,000, 1.06 pounds of methamphetamine valued at $25,440, a 2007 Chevrolet Aveo, and arrested a USC at the traffic checkpoint near Falfurrias, Texas. The subject presented herself for inspection and a Border Patrol canine alerted to the vehicle. A subsequent search revealed the narcotics hidden in the dashboard


Laredo Sector – Border Patrol agents seized 1,279 pounds of marijuana valued at $1,018,560, a 2000 International tractor-trailer, and arrested a USC at the traffic checkpoint near Laredo, Texas. The subject presented himself for inspection and a Border Patrol canine alerted to the trailer. A search revealed 77 bundles of marijuana within the cargo.


The list goes on and on. We have sobriety checkpoints up here where I live all the time. I don't see that it's much different. Your assertion that Yuma is the only place where these arrests are taking place is a little inaccurate.

Certainly you understand the skepticism of some when you were cited and released for an offense that in many places will get you a little bit of jail time and a permanent record.

The issue of the substances legality is moot. The encroachment of the Border Patrol is a real thing.

CBPis one of the Department of Homeland Security’s largest and most complex components, with a priority mission of keeping terrorists and their weapons out of the U.S. It also has a responsibility for securing and facilitating trade and travel while enforcing hundreds of U.S. regulations, including immigration and drug laws.


sounds to me like, being a federal agency, they can have jurisdiction wherever they want, provided the host state allows it. With tolerance for illicit substances so low and motivation so high to pretend like they care about stopping their use, we will only see more.

Read the blotter and see how many TONS of stuff they seized on that week.

I don't agree with the thugs searching every car, but they do. The likelihood of that practice coming to a stop is slim to nil. Until then, I would certainly advise caution and maybe even a little gratitude that things weren't a lot worse. They easily could have been.

I don't agree with it, but that's the way it is.

I know you really want to separate the issue of WHAT you were cited for from the fact that you WERE searched, detained and cited, but be realistic. When you take it to the Supreme court and claim your rights were violated, how likely is it that they will even listen, given the nature of your citation?

Until something happens to facilitate the big change, it's only going to get worse.

You anger, although seemingly justified in your mind, falls short of offering us any solution to the problem. How do you recommend we rally against the expansion in duties and powers of the Border Patrol?


The U.S. Border Patrol said the utilization of interior checkpoints as part as the Border Patrol's Defense in Depth strategy provides an additional barrier that smuggling organizations must attempt to defeat.

Link to source



[edit on 5-8-2009 by KSPigpen]



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 05:59 PM
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reply to post by KSPigpen
 


Okay, now please go and read the article I linked. Those are all big time busts, and worth calling in the local authorities to handle. Yuma is the ONLY, i repeat the ONLY county, that has deputized federal agents that can arrest and write citations on site, due to the high level of very small quanitity busts they get. It's become their PRIMARY activity there, to search and bust small time users coming back from the beach. The other BP stations you are talking about likely confiscate small amounts, and send the driver on their way, because that is NOT their mission to police U.S. citizens.



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 06:13 PM
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reply to post by 27jd
 



The Supreme Court has held that Border Patrol checkpoints, whether permanent or temporary, are legal as long as everyone on the road is required to stop. The law also allows warrantless searches of cars stopped at checkpoints within 100 miles of the border. As for the charge that Hispanics are singled out, the Border Patrol says it considers other factors besides ethnicity — including demeanor and dress — when deciding whether to subject a driver to thorough inspection at a checkpoint.

Link to Interesting Article

snippit from the original story in the Phoenix paper that the NY times got theirs from...


To Yuma County, the Border Patrol's dogs look more like geese — as in the ones laying golden eggs. They've brought in hundreds of thousands of dollars in the past few years. Until a change was made last fall, fines ranged between $750 and $1,400 for the small-time marijuana violators picked up at the checkpoints. Now, fines usually run $400 — but that still works out to be a lot of money considering there have been more than a thousand cases a year. And considering that federal agents and their dogs do most of the work. Yuma County officials insist it's not about the money. They say it's a black-and-white issue. Marijuana is illegal.

It's not going to stop. It's a gravy train. Not only that, a model for other communities. What a way to make some cash.

But still....if you KNOW they are there.....how is it worth it to force the issue?

The Supreme Court says they can do it. Yuma makes a lot of money, the BP gets pats on the back for protecting us from ourselves, and the casual users get to pay a lot of money, unless of course, they see the sign warning of the checkpoint ahead and take appropriate action.

Paying anything to the man is a kick in the crotch, but he's got the 'law' on his side.







[edit on 5-8-2009 by KSPigpen]



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 06:14 PM
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I have been through that checkpoint too...yes they do run a dog by every car, and have been doing it for awhile. What gets me going about this whole situation is that I am dark complected with dark hair and dark eyes, and my wife is originally from Mexico and speaks with a noticeable accent, yet the border patrol did not ask either of us if we were citizens or not...just if we had anything they should know about, and where we we heading and where we were coming from. How many illegal aliens get through this checkpoint? So the border patrol wants to focus on US citizens it seems, but at the same time they are telling Joe Arpaio, the sheriff of Maricopa county, that he must release illegal aliens if they have broken no laws except being in the USA illegally. But I suppose they cannot deport 25 million potential votes for something as silly as the law.



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