The roving border patrol involves a two-step process. An initial stop of a suspicious vehicle is made in order to investigate a traveler's right to
be in the United States. If probable cause is found during the questioning, a search of the vehicle is made for aliens and/or contraband. This note
looks at the initial stop made by roving border patrols. Generally, the fourth amendment's reasonableness standard requires, absent a consent to
search, a showing of probable cause and the issuance of a search warrant by a neutral magistrate. Border searches, however, are exempt from the usual
fourth amendment requirements.
I, a U.S. citizen, was arrested by a U.S. Border Patrol Agent today, page 6
privacy
reply posted on 5-8-2009 @ 02:51 PM by Everwatcher33
reply to post by Annee
Here Annee
Finally, it is obvious that the real purpose of Border Patrol checkpoints are to intercept drugs.
State and local police can set up temporary road blocks to catch drunk drivers, but permanent road blocks are not permitted in this country…except for the Border Patrol.
The immigration laws of the US allow permanent checkpoints to ascertain whether someone is legally in the country, and checkpoints are allowed within 100 airline miles from the border.
You can find it here: www.bandersnatch.com...
Close to the bottom under checkpoints or you can look on the CBP website.
Here Annee
Finally, it is obvious that the real purpose of Border Patrol checkpoints are to intercept drugs.
State and local police can set up temporary road blocks to catch drunk drivers, but permanent road blocks are not permitted in this country…except for the Border Patrol.
The immigration laws of the US allow permanent checkpoints to ascertain whether someone is legally in the country, and checkpoints are allowed within 100 airline miles from the border.
You can find it here: www.bandersnatch.com...
Close to the bottom under checkpoints or you can look on the CBP website.
reply posted on 5-8-2009 @ 02:52 PM by 27jd
reply to post by projectvxn
Wow man. Well, I can definitely attest that is true. I don't live in Yuma though, thankfully. I live in Phoenix, which seems to be barely above this consitution-free zone. BTW, I hope the declaration is going well, I haven't been over to the thread, and I'm not a member of facebook but i signed the petition, i'm one of the first 20 to do so. More than ever, I feel we're screwed...look at all these mindless followers on this thread, bashing me for my adult choices of how to relax, and not the government for breaking the highest laws of the land.
Wow man. Well, I can definitely attest that is true. I don't live in Yuma though, thankfully. I live in Phoenix, which seems to be barely above this consitution-free zone. BTW, I hope the declaration is going well, I haven't been over to the thread, and I'm not a member of facebook but i signed the petition, i'm one of the first 20 to do so. More than ever, I feel we're screwed...look at all these mindless followers on this thread, bashing me for my adult choices of how to relax, and not the government for breaking the highest laws of the land.
reply posted on 5-8-2009 @ 02:52 PM by GreenMule
reply to post by 27jd
Sorry about your luck man..
Its painfully frustrating to read some of these posts. It may seem counter-intuitive to some but these kind of aggressive actions are only going to increase drug related crime. Were talking about a natural plant that grows everywhere that we have been consuming since antiquity (holy anointed oil from exodus - Kaneh Bosm (hebrew) Kanah bus (greek)).
As mayor Laguardia said; "we cannot enforce a law that the people will not follow". By doing so you will only increase the risk required to traffic the plant to users, thereby increasing the amount of crime involved in said trafficking.
I guess the people that want to fight fire with fire wont realize the folly of their ways until they're standing in the flames.
Again, sorry about your luck.
Sorry about your luck man..
Its painfully frustrating to read some of these posts. It may seem counter-intuitive to some but these kind of aggressive actions are only going to increase drug related crime. Were talking about a natural plant that grows everywhere that we have been consuming since antiquity (holy anointed oil from exodus - Kaneh Bosm (hebrew) Kanah bus (greek)).
As mayor Laguardia said; "we cannot enforce a law that the people will not follow". By doing so you will only increase the risk required to traffic the plant to users, thereby increasing the amount of crime involved in said trafficking.
I guess the people that want to fight fire with fire wont realize the folly of their ways until they're standing in the flames.
Again, sorry about your luck.
reply posted on 5-8-2009 @ 02:57 PM by 27jd
reply to post by GreenMule
Thanks. And I agree with your post fully, but we don't want the thread to get into those waters, or it will be closed. And yes, the only people that benefit from this prohibition are the big pharma companies that dictate our laws through lobbyists, the government who rakes in the fine money, and the murderous cartels who rake in the drug money. Hard working, otherwise law abiding citizens lose all around.
Thanks. And I agree with your post fully, but we don't want the thread to get into those waters, or it will be closed. And yes, the only people that benefit from this prohibition are the big pharma companies that dictate our laws through lobbyists, the government who rakes in the fine money, and the murderous cartels who rake in the drug money. Hard working, otherwise law abiding citizens lose all around.
reply posted on 5-8-2009 @ 02:58 PM by Everwatcher33
reply to post by thomasblackraven
Thank you, it's what I've been trying to say. It's not a great thing, but our government and surpreme court have made it legal whether you like it or not. It was extended to 100 miles (air miles) but I am not sure when it was extended.
Thank you, it's what I've been trying to say. It's not a great thing, but our government and surpreme court have made it legal whether you like it or not. It was extended to 100 miles (air miles) but I am not sure when it was extended.
reply posted on 5-8-2009 @ 03:06 PM by 27jd
reply to post by earthship35
Thanks for the info, it's cool you are related to movie stars. I love the San Diego area, but I also love gold prospecting as a hobby, and I'm not sure how much gold is in the area, I know there is a little bit, plus i can always go north to tahoe on the weekends, lotsa gold there. But yeah, I'm definitely aiming to move to cali...
[edit on 5-8-2009 by 27jd]
Thanks for the info, it's cool you are related to movie stars. I love the San Diego area, but I also love gold prospecting as a hobby, and I'm not sure how much gold is in the area, I know there is a little bit, plus i can always go north to tahoe on the weekends, lotsa gold there. But yeah, I'm definitely aiming to move to cali...
[edit on 5-8-2009 by 27jd]
reply posted on 5-8-2009 @ 03:07 PM by fleabit
It is 100 miles: cfr.vlex.com...
In the last couple of years, drug trafficking has increased massively from our southern border, causing the increased security you are experiencing. Those especially in Arizona can expect to encounter a lot more security in regards to border patrols.
Am I happy with the encroachment to our city streets that the entire border patrol issue is causing? No, not at all. But imo, your rights were not infringed upon. Border patrol has increased power. You would be wise to not drive around roads with drugs in your car, if going down those highways that the border patrol now seems to be monitoring more stringently. Our borders are a joke, we need an entirely different strategy. But in the meantime, don't set yourself up for something like this to happen.
In the last couple of years, drug trafficking has increased massively from our southern border, causing the increased security you are experiencing. Those especially in Arizona can expect to encounter a lot more security in regards to border patrols.
Am I happy with the encroachment to our city streets that the entire border patrol issue is causing? No, not at all. But imo, your rights were not infringed upon. Border patrol has increased power. You would be wise to not drive around roads with drugs in your car, if going down those highways that the border patrol now seems to be monitoring more stringently. Our borders are a joke, we need an entirely different strategy. But in the meantime, don't set yourself up for something like this to happen.
reply posted on 5-8-2009 @ 03:08 PM by Blaine91555
reply to post by 27jd
You are usually a sensible poster. This time though, you seem to be just looking for people who fully agree with you and have no interest in a discussion?
You were guilty, so no issue there. No false arrest.
The Officer(s) who arrested you were just doing their jobs as instructed, so no issue there.
These check points have been around for a long time, so you knew in advance you could get tagged by a dog, so no issue there.
So the topic here is whether or not it is Constitutional for the Border Patrol to enforce the law regarding US Citizens.
At the time you drive through the stop, the Officers do not know if you are returning from Mexico or not. They are looking for people who avoided the border checks to bring in contraband. They found contraband in your vehicle that for all they know, may have come from Mexico. They only had your word as to where you were coming from.
I don't see how they did anything other than their jobs, so no issue there.
You are likely to fail before a Judge unless you contact the ACLU (
) and go all the way with this. Unless you have the huge sums of money it
would take to try and carry this to the Supreme Court on your own.
As I see it the Officers did nothing wrong and followed their orders. Who you have issue with is the Justice Dept.'s of the State and the U.S. and not with the Border Patrol who are simply following instructions and doing their jobs.
You may feel different on an emotional level but that won't impress or alter the decision by a Judge. To the Judge, you broke the law, you were caught red handed and the law is the law. You will have to file suit if you want to change the law or how it is interpreted. To the Judge handling the drug charge, you will simply look like another irrational person trying to argue their way out of trouble even though you know you were guilty.
My point is if you are serious, you have to go about this the right way. It will be very, very expensive. Nothing that an ordinary person could afford without going to the ACLU. As much as I hate them, that is probably your only recourse and if they don't see merit, you are finished before you start.
Perhaps instead of coming here to vent and look for people to sympathize; you should contact an Attorney and find out if your pissing in the wind or not.
You are usually a sensible poster. This time though, you seem to be just looking for people who fully agree with you and have no interest in a discussion?
You were guilty, so no issue there. No false arrest.
The Officer(s) who arrested you were just doing their jobs as instructed, so no issue there.
These check points have been around for a long time, so you knew in advance you could get tagged by a dog, so no issue there.
So the topic here is whether or not it is Constitutional for the Border Patrol to enforce the law regarding US Citizens.
At the time you drive through the stop, the Officers do not know if you are returning from Mexico or not. They are looking for people who avoided the border checks to bring in contraband. They found contraband in your vehicle that for all they know, may have come from Mexico. They only had your word as to where you were coming from.
I don't see how they did anything other than their jobs, so no issue there.
You are likely to fail before a Judge unless you contact the ACLU (
) and go all the way with this. Unless you have the huge sums of money it
would take to try and carry this to the Supreme Court on your own. As I see it the Officers did nothing wrong and followed their orders. Who you have issue with is the Justice Dept.'s of the State and the U.S. and not with the Border Patrol who are simply following instructions and doing their jobs.
You may feel different on an emotional level but that won't impress or alter the decision by a Judge. To the Judge, you broke the law, you were caught red handed and the law is the law. You will have to file suit if you want to change the law or how it is interpreted. To the Judge handling the drug charge, you will simply look like another irrational person trying to argue their way out of trouble even though you know you were guilty.
My point is if you are serious, you have to go about this the right way. It will be very, very expensive. Nothing that an ordinary person could afford without going to the ACLU. As much as I hate them, that is probably your only recourse and if they don't see merit, you are finished before you start.
Perhaps instead of coming here to vent and look for people to sympathize; you should contact an Attorney and find out if your pissing in the wind or not.
reply posted on 5-8-2009 @ 03:13 PM by earthship35
reply to post by 27jd
Way cool i am a member of gpaa, and in phoenix theres a group called the roadrunners prospectors club they have some good claims up north.Not a big deal both of my nieces are in a lot of movies and tv.My youngest niece is playing jack bauers granddaughter on 24 next year.
I lived in az since i was 14yo now 35 but it has changed for the worse,pretty sad i always liked living there too.
Way cool i am a member of gpaa, and in phoenix theres a group called the roadrunners prospectors club they have some good claims up north.Not a big deal both of my nieces are in a lot of movies and tv.My youngest niece is playing jack bauers granddaughter on 24 next year.
I lived in az since i was 14yo now 35 but it has changed for the worse,pretty sad i always liked living there too.
reply posted on 5-8-2009 @ 03:16 PM by harvib
reply to post by Everwatcher33
I think it is a shame that some individuals believe that because procedures have been in place it makes them Constitutional. There are several unconstitutional laws on the books. It takes due diligence on the public's part to protect themselves from unconstitutional legislation.
Unfortunately many individuals in this Country share your belief that if something is signed into law that it must be Constitutional and it must be accepted without question.
Get over it they hav been doing it for years.
I think it is a shame that some individuals believe that because procedures have been in place it makes them Constitutional. There are several unconstitutional laws on the books. It takes due diligence on the public's part to protect themselves from unconstitutional legislation.
Unfortunately many individuals in this Country share your belief that if something is signed into law that it must be Constitutional and it must be accepted without question.
reply posted on 5-8-2009 @ 03:19 PM by 27jd
reply to post by earthship35
I'm GPAA too! Wow, small world, i'm 32, i didn't think too many other younger people were into it, it's usually older men. I know of the roadrunners, there seems to be some rivalry, although the only thing I wanted from GPAA was claim access, but I haven't found great gold at their spots, however just northwest of lake pleasant, there's a little creek that's kinda rough wheelin to get there, but the gold is insane, especially for AZ. No claims there either, it's state trust land, so no crazy old men getting all pissed, lol. I'm just waiting til the water is back there, it's too hot to drywash here.
[edit on 5-8-2009 by 27jd]
I'm GPAA too! Wow, small world, i'm 32, i didn't think too many other younger people were into it, it's usually older men. I know of the roadrunners, there seems to be some rivalry, although the only thing I wanted from GPAA was claim access, but I haven't found great gold at their spots, however just northwest of lake pleasant, there's a little creek that's kinda rough wheelin to get there, but the gold is insane, especially for AZ. No claims there either, it's state trust land, so no crazy old men getting all pissed, lol. I'm just waiting til the water is back there, it's too hot to drywash here.
[edit on 5-8-2009 by 27jd]
reply posted on 5-8-2009 @ 03:21 PM by rightuos
reply to post by 27jd
I believe he meant the staking out of main roads was unconstitutional. I'm reading another case right here that shows the Supreme Court already has a firm stance on K-9 sniff search.
Best you can do is fight your fine and see if you get a judge that holds your opinion, but if you drag it far enough to the SCOTUS they seem to have their mind made up already.
As for not being tasked to arrest citizens? They have been arresting citizens here in El Paso for the last 25 years that i can remember. Go down I-10 through NM there's a stop they will ask you if you have fruit or vegetables, so don't try hiding that orange or banana. Might find yourself in cuffs.
I believe he meant the staking out of main roads was unconstitutional. I'm reading another case right here that shows the Supreme Court already has a firm stance on K-9 sniff search.
Best you can do is fight your fine and see if you get a judge that holds your opinion, but if you drag it far enough to the SCOTUS they seem to have their mind made up already.
As for not being tasked to arrest citizens? They have been arresting citizens here in El Paso for the last 25 years that i can remember. Go down I-10 through NM there's a stop they will ask you if you have fruit or vegetables, so don't try hiding that orange or banana. Might find yourself in cuffs.
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