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Healthcare and the Cost for High Risk Individuals

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posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 07:41 PM
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reply to post by ravenshadow13
 


You do realise how much cigarettes are taxed right now right?




posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 07:44 PM
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Originally posted by ravenshadow13
I mean, it's just selfish.


Funny, I was thinking the same thing about your position. Perhaps there should be a panel in every ER deciding who's fault it was, then they can decide who does and does not deserve treatement. Just about any activity can land you in hospital. By your logic any one who ends up in hospital as a result of their own actions should be discriminated against. That is what you are saying, only you chose smokers as the best example to argue your point though anyone should know that such methods would be far more reaching than any single group, at least in the long term. Once you go down that road you cannot go back. Maybe if you break your leg skiing and turn up for help you'll not be surprised when they shrug and tell you it was your choice to go skiing, no one forced you. Besides, are you sure smokers don't subsidize your healthcare, through tax and their insurance premiums.

[edit on 4-8-2009 by quackers]



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 07:44 PM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


Right but they cause cancer and all sorts of other problems.

It's not like the tax money goes to people who get sick. It goes to the government. You all should know, we have no idea where in the government it goes to. If it goes to Medicare, awesome. But probably not.



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 07:44 PM
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reply to post by ravenshadow13
 


Hey, I don't want to pay for your glasses after you spend all day on here being a MOD, SO DON'T USE THE COMPUTER ANYMORE.

Same thing!

This is straight out of a handbook of what not to do.

Are you even serious? Please tell me this whole thread is a joke!

[edit on 4-8-2009 by breakingdradles]



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 07:44 PM
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I spend a little over $12,000.00 annually for my family already (major health, dental and vision)…I already I feel like I am already paying for other’s to a certain extent.

While I agree with what you are ‘getting at’ to a certain extent; but at what point and when do you stop telling people what to eat, drink, smoke etc?

But even too many Cola’s a day can cause cancer!

Would it still be o.k. to play sports and risk an injury? Do you increase peoples healthcare costs because they get a ticket for not wearing seat belt? Do you force people with pet allergies to have the pets removed from their home….on and on and on…

My two cents: Force all non-citizen persons working in the United States to carry a private supplemental heath insurance (NOT Medicaid, Medicare or County or State funded cards) in order to maintain the right to work in the US…



mg



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 07:46 PM
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reply to post by ravenshadow13
 


We have to eliminate drinking then too as it leads to liver cirrhosis. Well, pretty much any form of risk outside of necessary professional risks will have to be made illegal.

Under your regime I'd be a criminal in the smoking department. It's the only thing I do. Even if I didn't do that, my view wouldn't change. It really is a "First They Came" scenario. At some point, as free as offensive behaviors you may think you are, someone will find something they don't like about your personal habits and attempt to eradicate it.



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 07:46 PM
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Originally posted by mopusvindictus

Just sayin the big fatty smoking a big ol cigar and eating MC D's for dinner... that guy won't cost you a dime compared to me who wants to hang around to be 120 if I can...


I disagree.

According to the wording in the bill, an arguement could be made that an accurate metaphor for Obama's plan would be "kill granpa", in order to save money.

If we have health care reform, Raven would pay for his/her own medical care, same as you.

[edit on 4-8-2009 by mhc_70]



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 07:49 PM
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reply to post by quackers
 


They do, that's why I changed the name of the thread.

If it's a one time thing, that's different. Plus, most people have accident insurance. I have SCUBA insurance.

It's not like if you go to ski, you see a warning on your skiis saying "Do not do this because it has been proven to cause injury."

And if you ski, you don't get injured unless you fall.

If you smoke, all you have to do is smoke.

Here:



Worldwide, tobacco use causes more than 5 million deaths per year.1
Current trends show that tobacco use will cause more than 8 million deaths annually by 2030.1
Cigarette smoking is the leading preventable cause of death in the United States.2
In the United States, cigarette smoking is responsible for about one in five deaths annually, or about 443,000 deaths per year.3
An estimated 49,000 of these deaths are the result of secondhand smoke exposure.3
On average, smokers die 13 to 14 years earlier than nonsmokers.2
For every person who dies of a smoking-related disease, 20 more people suffer with at least one serious illness from smoking.4
Cigarette smoking increases the length of time that people live with a disability by about 2 years.5

Tobacco-Related Costs and Expenditure in the United States

Annually, cigarette smoking costs more than $193 billion ($97 billion in lost productivity and $96 billion in health care expenditures).3
Health care costs associated with exposure to secondhand smoke average $10 billion annually.6
...

Tobacco Use in the United States

Approximately 19.8% of U.S. adults (43.4 million people) are current cigarette smokers.10

www.cdc.gov...



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 07:50 PM
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reply to post by ravenshadow13
 


There is not a single human activity that does not at least in possiblity cause some sort of health problem. So, what should we do? Ban everything "Demolition Man" style? That is the road where what you propose ends.



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 07:51 PM
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reply to post by breakingdradles
 


If Life Insurance companies charge more for smokers, why don't Health Insurance companies?



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 07:51 PM
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How about real sunlight? Since it gives people skin cancer too, lets just build a nation of awnings so that we never see sunlight.

Meat, soda, cheese, wine, all of it is bad for you, so you don't get any of that either.

STAIRS! They must kill a couple dozen people a year, I vote ramps for everyone! God forbid I pay for someone breaking a wrist on a flight of stairs!

Airplanes! Wow, they are dangerous, cars too for that matter! Lets just all stay in our houses, away from the sun, and Raven won't have to pay for our healthcare!



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 07:52 PM
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I don't have an issue with everything!

I have an issue with smoking.

Life insurance and health insurance should at least have consistent policies on this issue.

Hardly anything has statistics like that which people partake in regularly.

Sorry if I offended anyone.

[edit on 8/4/2009 by ravenshadow13]



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 07:54 PM
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reply to post by ravenshadow13
 


Yes, but by natural progression of the ideas you hold dear you get those other things. It's a step down a road that kills anything even resembling personal freedom and is that not what America is supposed to be all about???



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 07:56 PM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


I don't think that it's a natural progression. Obviously sunlight is healthy, so is food, so is travel. I'm not saying everyone should stop having fun and stop living their lives. I'm not even saying smoking should be illegal.

I'm saying that if life insurance companies have increased costs for people who smoke because they think that smoking poses enough risk to health that it makes you die sooner, why would health insurance companies not charge more for people who smoke as well?



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 07:58 PM
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Originally posted by ravenshadow13
reply to post by breakingdradles
 


If Life Insurance companies charge more for smokers, why don't Health Insurance companies?


They do, at least any I've dealt with. They also want to know if you've been tobacco free for at least certain amount of time in the applications.

I will also pose the the question to some that I do know in the insurance business and see if their companies also charge more or not. They aren't in my state so I never asked about it.

Which companies don't charge more? I'd like a list.


[edit on 8/4/2009 by EnlightenUp]



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by ravenshadow13
I don't have an issue with everything!

I have an issue with smoking.

Life insurance and health insurance should at least have consistent policies on this issue.

Hardly anything has statistics like that which people partake in regularly.

Sorry if I offended anyone.

[edit on 8/4/2009 by ravenshadow13]


Exactly why you should choose the healthcare policy thats right for you, instead of paying the government to make the decision for you.



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 08:00 PM
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reply to post by EnlightenUp
 


Not my company, not the ones provided by employers, at least this one.

That's the entire reason why I made this thread. I was talking with my mom about it, because it's based on the health of the people in the company. So if you're in a company with tons of smokers, you have to pay more, even if you're a non-smoker.

Edit- I honestly don't think Obama is going to choose our healthcare providers for us, at least not what I've heard officially. You can totally throw water balloons at me if I'm wrong in a few months, though.

[edit on 8/4/2009 by ravenshadow13]



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 08:02 PM
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reply to post by ravenshadow13
 


Maybe it has to do with mine being a personal policy and not a group policy. Hmmm.



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 08:02 PM
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reply to post by ravenshadow13
 


Um, sunlight can and does cause skin cancer.



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 08:06 PM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


Yes but people are in the sun all the time and don't get skin cancer.
The people who generally get skin cancer go tanning or go lie out in the sun or spend time in the sun for extended periods without sunscreen.



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