Guard troops may be needed in troubled Ala. county

Don't make sense to me...

ya know, wasn't this coming?

All cities, counties and states have way to many workers. In my opinion most of them are lazy and un qualified. In texas if you go down to the tollway authority/tollroads they're like a miniature city. There own police force and countless city workers, accountants, clerks, assistants, staff, ect. The main reason the people go work for the cities and states is because of the huge pension retirements they recieve once they put in 20 years.

I remember back in the late 90's when I lived in California - CalTrans the city/state high repair and maintence crews had a 5 year waiting list for employment.. When people retired from CalTrans they recieved a $120,000 a year in retirement. Don't get me wrong, I am sure some deserved it but I worked with these guys for a couple of months and this is how our work schedule went.

I believe starting salary was around $55,000

630am-830am morning prep, coffee, equipment in trucks, ect
9am - 10am - go to job site
10am - 12pm work
12pm - 130pm lunch
2pm - 4pm work
4pm - 5pm shuffle around end of day
5pm - 530pm drive back to the yard

Do you need any special talent or education to do this job? no
Did some of the people have special talents and skills? yes
Do you make a fat ass comfortable retirement? yes

Here comes 3rd world America folks.


[edit on 4-8-2009 by epete22]

Originally posted by Wolfpack 51
You would think with all the federal money floating around for wall street, banks, car manufactures, museums, etc. that there would be a fund that could be used to borrow the money to keep the municipality going.

Im not excited about spending our tax money any more than it is being thrown around, but if this is a real crisis it seems to loan them federal money would be better than this National Guard situation.

Sometimes restructering is the best possibilities, all of these cities are bloated to the core of wasteful spending.

Uh o, everyone jumping to conclusions. Oh noz! National Guard = Martial Law ZOMGIES.

Or it means they're doing their..you know. JOBS.

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

I still think that you are one of the most thoughtful posters on this website, but I think you are overlooking something in this case.

As others have mentioned, the surrounding Birmingham Alabama area is a very large place.
Now, to suddenly create a vaccuum in that area is just an open invitation for MASSIVE corruption. The thugs who are brazen as it is would be emboldened to the point of trying to take outright control of the area... at which point the Guard would be called in anyhow.

This is the National Guard's job. Better them here doing something like this than fighting a war they have no business being involved in in the first place.

Now, the question becomes is this planned?

If it is, and I think it may be, then there are things to look forward towards.

I mean, is the plan to draw the National Guard into PTSD so that when you implent some sort of chaos on your own soil that they will be 'hardened' to the point that every time they see chaos they just open fire?
I hope not.

I can appreciate your sentiments but such an occurence in my humble oppinion creates a troubling precedent.

If we can allocate trillions of dollars of tax payer money to bail out banks and industries, and billions of dollars just to get people to trade in their old clunkers now that Uncle Sam is in the car business then the Federal Government could easily provide money for the local existing infrastructure there in Alabama keeping in mind all those civilian authorities would be loosing jobs too.

This isn't a disaster where an act of nature or an act of war has created an inherent danger, this is simply a matter of poor fiscal planning.

So what are we then going to do everytime a county or a city has a shortfall of tax revenue? Lay off the entire departments and start conditioning people to seeing soldiers in uniform doing simple police duty when there is no emergency caused by a natural disaster or a war?

It is bad enough and disturbing enough and yes, even shocking enough that the U.S. has become such a police state but now a military state?

Nay I say, if there is plenty of money to pay bankers and manufacturers then there is certainly enough money to pay civilian law enforcement.

This one hits a little close to home (considering I live on the edge of Jefferson County)... This along with Langfords buddy taking a plea bargain.. Something has not smelled right in the Ham for a while, and it aint the steel mills (seeing as how they closed recently too)!

I saw this story in a commercial for the news tonight and watched the news... no more mention of the national guard!! Had to go online to check it out (found it here first!!)

Also, they have been closing the satellite courthouses and laying off workers at schools. Ill keep ya'll posted if anything REALLY funky happens...

p.s. Oh if anyone can figure out where they are getting the money for the dome, PLEASE let someone know (they are going to build a domed stadium here but cant pay any cops... wtf...)

p.p.s Also found this... didnt know about all the JP morgan stuff and whatnot.. *sigh*

www.businessinsider.com...
[edit on 4-8-2009 by ganja]

[edit on 5-8-2009 by ganja]

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by Rockpuck

 

The fact that at that point it will come as emergency funding through the Federal Government.

No.. it would have to be declared a Disaster Area ... By the President. If it's not, they get no Federal Funding. Guard's are funded by the States, as they are technically their militias.. if they activate their troops with no disaster or crisis, and the President doesn't declare those specific counties Disaster Areas, Alabama is without Federal Funding.

So I ask .. What's the game they are playing?

Originally posted by Jakes51

If they don't have the money why aren't the citizens deputized; they used to do that in the west back in the 1800s. Lets call it a public service or collateral duty. Let the people police their own streets if they are strapped for cash. I am pretty sure since it's Alabama the people are trained in small arms. So I don't see any problem with this approach as a temporary fix. If the police need money, it's simple, raise taxes again! However, using armed military units to do policing should be the last alternative.

Yeah lets deputize the citizens and see how much crime gets prevented. Most citizens wouldn't have a clue on what it takes to do the job of a police officer. This isn't the 1800's and the criminals aren't carrying 30/30's, Colt .45's, Winchesters and riding horses. Also its Alabama so your sure they are trained in small arms? I'm quite sure there aren't anymore people trained in small arms in Alabama then anywhere else in this country. Since national guard troops are from that area i believe their training makes them much more capable of maintaining law and order than the average citizen. Personally I would think you cut maintenance, afterschool programs, manage the city budget better, and just cut back on other non-essentials. You have to have law enforcement and firing the police chief is so not the answer. He doesn't make the budget so why the hell is he responsible?

Originally posted by muzzleflash
The police and national guard will not change that. Only education can change it. And guess what, no one has a clue how to pull that off.

Well actually, if our schools (colleges included) were more concerned with educating children into becoming something other than simple "happy factory workers" then perhaps we'd have something.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
"About 1,000 county workers already are on unpaid leave because courts threw out a key county tax"

Well, good! Fewer taxes, less government! surely jefferson County is set to become a utopia!

..Wait... You mean the right is wrong? Nooooo!

A point, well made...star for you! Sounds good, till the maggots of society start invading YOUR home to wreck havoc. But, we need cops who "fight crime", not harrass citizen's.

Cops spend too much time now harrasing law abiding citizens. IE: seat-belt crime, etc. They ignore the real criminals. Why? One main reason...it's safer (for themselves) to arrest a law abiding citizen than a violent criminal. Thus cops of today are little more than "hall monitors" afraid to confront a violent criminal who might hurt them.

We need to return to the day when cops who had a commitment to be the citizen's friend and make the streets safe from the violent criminals amongst us.


[edit on 5-8-2009 by romanmel]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but look to the left and see where I live people.
BELIEVE ME they are NOT going to be bailing out ANY states any time soon. Didn't you guys get that one with the California fiasco? Must have not been paying close attention to what the fedup's where saying about NOT bailing out ANYONE.
I guess we will just have to sit on our hands and wait for that shoe to drop. Not much else to do at this point if they let you know about the guard they have already been called up or had a plan put into place for them to deploy. Otherwise they wouldn't have breathed a word of it to anyone.
They don't release things like that unless they have had some hard hitters up to bat and laid out the plans already. Get with the program and read and watch much closer! Just because one state is having a certain "problem" doesn't mean another is not. Watch what they say and do for others because frankly YOU WILL GET THE SAME!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I understand what you are saying and it IS wrong.
This has happened to the entire state of California lately also.

Money for the bankers, NOTHING for the common man.

We all knew what this was all about a year ago. But like I said, if the Federal Government isn't going to give the money to the communities that need it then someone has to do it. Better to have the Guardsmen in the homeland than overseas doing something they are not trained to do OR should be expected to do, as it is not their job.

reply to post by Rockpuck


I understand it would have to be declared an disaster area. Maybe that IS the game they are playing.

On the matter of who pays for the National Guard to do their job isn't that kind of a shared responsibility? I mean, doesn't the Federal Government pay to train these soldiers? Not that it really matters, just curious.


[edit on 5-8-2009 by JayinAR]

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

I understand what you are saying and it IS wrong.
This has happened to the entire state of California lately also.

Money for the bankers, NOTHING for the common man.

We all knew what this was all about a year ago. But like I said, if the Federal Government isn't going to give the money to the communities that need it then someone has to do it. Better to have the Guardsmen in the homeland than overseas doing something they are not trained to do OR should be expected to do, as it is not their job.

Well you almost had it right.
It's money for the Bankers FROM the common man.
This should be easy to figure out. They get to play with your money and risk it, and when they lose it, they get more from you to play with.
Meanwhile, filling their pockets all along.

oh boy.... the start of things to come? I think thats what the federal goverment wants... state\cities to start giving up control ....

reply to post by Rockpuck

So I ask .. What's the game they are playing?

It's called the fear game. When ever Government wants something...be it money, or more power, or for the citizens to turn a blind or forgiving eye to it's ineptitudes, incompetence and corruption they always love to play the fear game.

We will have to let the dangerous prisoners out of jail, criminals will be able to roam the streets at their own leisure and free will...raping, robbing, kidnapping, destroying, killing...and the only thing that can save you from that horrible fate is giving the government want they want...whether it's your money, or your civil liberties, your dignity or your common sense.

It's called the fear game and when you consider much of our debt and deficit is from the so called "War on Terror" the fear game racks up money and power like few things ever have or will.

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

I understand what you are saying and it IS wrong.
This has happened to the entire state of California lately also.

Money for the bankers, NOTHING for the common man.

We all knew what this was all about a year ago. But like I said, if the Federal Government isn't going to give the money to the communities that need it then someone has to do it. Better to have the Guardsmen in the homeland than overseas doing something they are not trained to do OR should be expected to do, as it is not their job.

I disagree, it's better to deputize civilian volunteers.

Does this county have a "Ride Along Program"?

Most do, where concerned and engaged citizens witness and learn first hand as volunteers how their local communities are policed.

That would be the appropriate response, to shrink the local government according to what it's budget allows for and then for volunteers to step in to fill the gaps not because they are paid...but because they care.

Deputizing citiznes to form an all volunteer police force is a far better way to send a message to Washington that citizens don't want troops on our own streets.

There is absolutely no need...I repeat no need, in our nation with all of our resources human and monetary to have a militarized police force in a non-disaster situation.

The danger this represents is enormous. What's next for cities and counties a little cash strapped? To start then augmenting their existing police force with Troops?

Under no circumstances short of a genuine natural disaster or war on U.S. Soil and a real war, with real enemy soldiers, wearing real uniforms, with real chains of command, not this Omar and Fasil got them selves an AK-47 and a head band nonsense, should U.S. Soldiers whether in the Gaurd or the Army be patrolling our streets with the POWER to make ARRESTS and use LETHAL FORCE.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


well I'm not not shure if this has any cred but here it gos from 2-15-09

Kent says Mayor Franklin is telling outright lies when she says, as she did again recently, that crime in Atlanta is, statistically, down. Kent says Franklin is lying because crimes in the City of Atlanta are actually up, but there’s no way to prove this because APD is not providing accurate stats for interested parties – the “interested parties” being local journalism outlets such as The Sunday Paper and the AJC; that any efforts by journos-with-money to find reliable and accurate crime stats are being thwarted by APD and/or, I presume, City Hall.

mostlymedia.wordpress.com...

I live just north of Atl. and now I'm stumped who to believe the media or what I see not trying to start a myth just my own observations

may not be new but I found this interesting
www.spotcrime.com...
"sorry to jak the thread with my paranoia yall carry on"


[edit on 5-8-2009 by hillbilly4rent]

[edit on 5-8-2009 by hillbilly4rent]

Posted this on ireport, with links to some related articles...

www.ireport.com...

All crime stats are "voluntarily" provided to the FBI for statistical tracking! Certain areas have a HUGE incentive to pad the numbers.

For example, I am in a college town, FSU. The reported statistics are 1 to 2 sexual assaults per year, but in reality it is 1 to 2 per WEEK!! Such a stat would hurt enrollment for the University which is the number one employer and revenue generator for the town, so they don't report them!

This is fact from personal experience (I know lots of girls who have been attacked or at least attempted), and it is also fact from some of my buddies on the 7 different police forces responsible for the area, which raises another statistical problem.

When looking at Tallahassee crime stats, you only get City of Tallahassee, but the same few miles of land also have FSU police, FAMU police, TCC police, Leon County Sheriffs, Capitol City Police, and Florida Highway Patrol investigating crimes. Not to mention the ever present Border Patrol, DEA, FBI, Fish and Wildlife and others.

So to get an accurate crime statistic you would have to crunch data from 10 or more agencies and make your own assumptions, and it still would only show "arrests", it would not show crimes that were originally arrested on misdemeanors and later upgraded to felonies! This is a very old trick to make crime sprees look low! The officers are instructed to only make misdemeanor arrests during riots, new years eve, domestic spats, etc. Then the DA will upgrade the crime before arraignment! Only 'felony arrest' reports get forwarded to the FBI so the number is false!