Why I am Not a Christian

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by spellbound

 

The reason we have terrorists is not as simple as that. What annoys me is that terrorist has become popularly considered synomous with "Muslim" despite the fact that is simply not true. Timothy McVey was not a muslim. The IRA are not muslims. The list goes on and on.

And hey, as long as you don't badger me about your belief in J.C. it's kewl with me.

And in the end you really gotta wonder, if you do badger about it, how much better are you than those you argue against?

[edit on 5-8-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

if i were a drinking man, i would salute that. i live about 10-15 minutes away from the site where tim mcvey did what he did.

i hope no one takes my criticisms of religions as a personal attack. i'm sick of that crapola (yes, i'm aware i'm guilty of it myself at times.)

cheers,
AA

reply to post by spellbound


And please excuse me if I avoid even speaking the topic of that New York incident.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


OK, I have to ask, as I always ask, why doesn't mankind love each other?

If we did, we could save the world.

But something tells me that that won't happen.

So, we are so stupid that we will sacrifice the world, and our lives, instead of just living together in harmony.

HOW DUMB IS THAT?

reply to post by spellbound


Greed. The pathological need to feel better than those around us. And I am sure a few more.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


OK.

So we deserve the end of this planet earth.

We have behaved so badly towards each other and the planet.

Strong similarities between the development of the Christ figure and previous religious figures.

This for me sums up my attitude towards Christianity. The central themes of Christianity can be found everywhere.

In a way I envy people who have a strong faith. When I've had a glass of wine and am contemplating death it's kind of depressing. When someone with a strong faith contemplates death they picture some paradise.

In the end I support whatever makes you happy and brings you peace, as long as you support whatever makes me happy and brings me peace.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


Do Americans believe that 9/11 was an inside job?

I would not be surprised.

reply to post by spellbound


Like I said. Not touching that one.

reply to post by badmedia


I must say, badmedia, that I agree with vast parts of your post. And, for the record, my original post is against Christianity in its organized forms. I have no problem with the Christ (which I see as somewhat separated from the historical Jesus simply because we do not know what he really taught).

Peace,
Daniel

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by spellbound

 

They don't see it that way. I have always been of the opinion that we all need to follow the road that makes the most sense to us

AND ALLOW OTHERS TO DO THE SAME MINUS ANYONE ELSE'S CRITICISM!!!

Sorry for the caps but a great deal of people seem to have a problem with that.



[edit on 5-8-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Don't you think criticism is helpful to the path you have chosen? I prefer a bit of criticism coming my way every now and then to keep me sharp, and to help me think through what I believe. It can be a blessing.

Peace,
Daniel

Originally posted by spellbound
reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

 

Do Americans believe that 9/11 was an inside job?

I would not be surprised.

I live in the US, and it's pretty much common knowledge among most people. However, we don't generally talk about it. It's one thing to see and know the truth for yourself, complete waste of time trying to get others to accept or do anything about it. Those who deny just don't want to accept it IMO.

The funny thing about it is I didn't even think it was an inside job until weeks later. Not because I seen a video or anything, but when I found out the claim was that explosives weren't used and that the planes did it all. I knew when I saw it that it was controlled demolition, I just thought it was part of the attack. It wasn't until they started to deny that part that I went - hold up a minute, I know what I saw.

So if they had just said it was part of the attack, i would have been none the wiser. But instead they insulted my intelligence and told on themselves.

Originally posted by pdpayne0418
reply to post by badmedia

 

I must say, badmedia, that I agree with vast parts of your post. And, for the record, my original post is against Christianity in its organized forms. I have no problem with the Christ (which I see as somewhat separated from the historical Jesus simply because we do not know what he really taught).

Peace,
Daniel

I think what you see in the bible is pretty much the real thing as far as the 4 gospels(gnostic texts) go. However, the way they are presented by Christians is generally far from true, because they have filtered the meaning through Paul's version. I often debunk the common myths Christians carry - such as only Christians can go to heaven and such - couldn't be farther from the truth and is just a marketing ploy.

Jesus tells the disciples not to make themselves in authority figures and such, that there is only 1 true master and teacher. So the entire function of organized religion is false.

Long topic, but in the end it becomes a matter of acceptance vs understanding. 1 day/eventually understanding is going to win and then truth and understanding(Jesus) will rule the word, rather than the lie and manipulation(Satan).

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


Yes, and I am postulating that the US is the enemy of the world.


The richest country, which ignores its own people - that is evil. Why is the States giving aid to other countries when its own people suffer?

Because it doesn't care about its own people. It only cares about how it looks in the world arena.

reply to post by spellbound


Enemy of the world - it's not that simple. The US is an obvious beast and will be a major player in things, no doubt about it. However, it's not really the "US" that is your enemy in any more than your own country is.

Functions rather than labels, actions rather than people etc.

Then there is the:
Absurdity
Injustice
Cruelty and Violence
Intolerance
Contradictions
Science and History errors
Family Values
Women
Prophecy
Sex
Language
Homosexuality


Qoute.


Ok but what society doesn't have those things? A communist soceity has them, athiest does, it's because the nature of man tends to evil and our instability in our passions.


and Btw those contraditictions are from the 1611 KJV which is not a real biblical translation, it is, but it's founded on many erros and had hidden pagan satanic gods in it because satan created the revolt which is why most of the new age translations have errors.



Now as for thos points how come Jesus taught in the new teatament the 8 beuatitudes?


1. Blessed are the poor in spirit.

2. Blessed are they who mourn, they shall be comforted.

3. Blessed are the meek.

4. Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they shall be satisfied.

5. Blessed are the merciful.

6. Blessed are the pure of heart. meaning the innocent )

7.Blessed are the peacemakers.

8. Blessed are they who are persicuted.



and so you see that's pure love speaking. Because God is love itself. God cannot contradict himself, which means that the events in the OT were a reslut of wars and hidden plots against the isrealites and the conditions are work back then.


This happens in all societies, athiest, communist, and religious, the only place it doesn't happen if people actually followed what christ taught.


that city doesn't exist, but it will in heaven.

Now as for the OP.

1. The many contradictions in the Holy Bible - Jewish and Christian Testaments.



Well because of the 1500 revolt and the 1611 KJV. The true translations have no contradictions because Iv'e studies both the new age translations and the old latin translations and it's completely different. The 1611 KJV also had hidden pagan gods and demons through it's pages because satan created the revolt from the true church God established centuries before.




2. Strong similarities between the development of the Christ figure and previous religious figures.


Well the reason because and this is simply my input on the matter. Satan knew Christ and his coming from the beggining and he knew Christ would be born of a woman. So i believe satan created those stories to make it similiar to do exactly what you just stated. Confuse souls. Here's the difference. Christ actually clamied to be the messiah and had 12 followers and actually existed. he was prophecied thriugh the OT and also created a sacrafice which was prophecied in the OT as well. Holy communion. infact this it was prophecied that his name and church would spread throught the world which it has. So the proof is in the 2000 years of saints miracles, spreading of christianity throughout the world and the fruits of his words.





3. The belief (to me, ridiculous) that an omnipotent, omniscient God could not have done a much better job at revealing himself than was apparently done through scripture.



Why? Why should God come through any other means then a virgin mother? He came through a woman and experienced all that his creation had so we could share in it with him. that's not ridiculous to me but awesome. God isn't just gonna appear on a white throne saying what's up yall while doing the jig.

4. The contradiction between a loving God and the concept of an eternal hell.


Hell is nothing more then a jail. Say someone hated you, ok and had all of life to chose to love you or not, and then said, I want to spend eternity in your house while I hate you. Souls chose hell themselves and if your theory were correct then robbers and criminals in county jails should be let lose tommorrow because they are treating them like crap?

No. A real loving God would seperate the good from the evil and be just in his desicions.

He has no choise but to give souls what they chose on earth which is hell, and after death god will reveal mans heart to you and all hidden things will be made known and he will show why each one is in hell.



5. The apparent inability of the Holy Spirit to produce unity in those he is supposed to indwell.



No because you just said it. The holy spirit is not in those who are divided in hatred.

I myself am catholic and yes I am deivided against protestants. I believe they need communion to be saved flat out because of what it produces in the soul which a soul will never rise to perfection without.

Now it doesn't mean I hate them, it's simple division. I am divided against my brother at home all the time, we argue, it doesn't mean I hate him at all, souls will have disagreements baised on truths and what they believe.

so division is not always a bad thing concerning truth provided it's with repsect and love still.

6. The schizophrenic nature of Jesus' teachings (i.e. peace or the sword, depending on what section you read).


If men quarrel, and one strike a woman with child, and she miscarry indeed, but live herself: he shall be answerable for so much damage as the woman's husband shall require, and as arbiters shall award. 23 But if her death ensue thereupon, he shall render life for life. 24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.


That's the exact woute. What it means that in the OT times men had to account for anothers wrong doing through a just punishment.

In the NT God preached the age of forgiveness because of the new sacrafice which he implanted and the law of forgiveness through the cross which made the aforsaid passage changed into.

" love your enemies " " turn the other cheeck "


and btw it's different because christ meant turn the other cheeck in terms of mens ignorance and lack of love, in which in the NT age forgiveness is throgh Christ cross which people pray for, for their conversion instead of eye for eye tooth for tooth.



7. The strong-handed techniques used by the early church in constructing dogma and a canon.



Because God said.

" whatever you lose on earth is lossed in heaven and bind on earth is bound in heaven "

meaning the doctrines. God has to set up a hierarchy to interpret scripture or esle personal interpretation would run wild and create even more division which it has in the 1500s.


Not all the techniques were always violent and some had to do with certain wars against christians back then.

But that doesn't make christ not valid as the church consists in the true saints whom lived peacful harmless lives.

I don't know too much about history so i can't go fruther on that one, but anyways thanks OP as your OP was atleast repsectful.


In time your soul will have to decide, and I truly hope you decide Christ.


peace.


[edit on 6-8-2009 by JesusisTruth]

reply to post by JesusisTruth


Just so you know - I am not ignoring you. It's just that I grew up hearing all the reasons you just listed to my objections, and without a total leap of faith, your reasons just do not cut it. It's impossible to have a reasonable debate with someone who's foundation is faith. I'm not saying this as a putdown. It's just impossible, as you'll always revert to your faith, and I'll always say that's not a legitimate way to argue.

Peace,
Daniel

Well to me they do cut it because they are totally logical IMO and accurate concerning the OP questions.


goodluck in the future OP.

Originally posted by pdpayne0418
1. The many contradictions in the Holy Bible - Jewish and Christian Testaments.

Can you name any?

Originally posted by pdpayne0418
2. Strong similarities between the development of the Christ figure and previous religious figures.

Christ was first and the religious figures were copy cats.

Originally posted by pdpayne0418
3. The belief (to me, ridiculous) that an omnipotent, omniscient God could not have done a much better job at revealing himself than was apparently done through scripture.

Then there would be no reason to choose if God revealed himself as you wanted.
You can look outside at nature and the earth and universe and see that something can't come from nothing.
God choose the Bible to reveal Himself.

Originally posted by pdpayne0418
4. The contradiction between a loving God and the concept of an eternal hell.

It's the person that makes the choice. God loved everyone and sent His Son to die for everyone but the person must make the choice.

Originally posted by pdpayne0418
5. The apparent inability of the Holy Spirit to produce unity in those he is supposed to indwell.

I believe there's unity. If your a Christian then you believe in Jesus and that is unity. Nothing else really matters.

Originally posted by pdpayne0418
6. The schizophrenic nature of Jesus' teachings (i.e. peace or the sword, depending on what section you read).

He wasn't a schizoid. You have to read the Bible in context and not take a few verses and call Jesus a lunatic.

Originally posted by pdpayne0418
7. The strong-handed techniques used by the early church in constructing dogma and a canon.

You have any sources for that?

Originally posted by pdpayne0418
I look forward to reading of your reasons for unbelief, and will probably add more of my own as the mental juices start flowing

Something cannot come from nothing. That' means there is a creator.

Thanks,
TT

Originally posted by texastig

Originally posted by pdpayne0418
1. The many contradictions in the Holy Bible - Jewish and Christian Testaments.

Can you name any?

Originally posted by pdpayne0418
2. Strong similarities between the development of the Christ figure and previous religious figures.

Christ was first and the religious figures were copy cats.

Originally posted by pdpayne0418
3. The belief (to me, ridiculous) that an omnipotent, omniscient God could not have done a much better job at revealing himself than was apparently done through scripture.

Then there would be no reason to choose if God revealed himself as you wanted.
You can look outside at nature and the earth and universe and see that something can't come from nothing.
God choose the Bible to reveal Himself.

Originally posted by pdpayne0418
4. The contradiction between a loving God and the concept of an eternal hell.

It's the person that makes the choice. God loved everyone and sent His Son to die for everyone but the person must make the choice.

Originally posted by pdpayne0418
5. The apparent inability of the Holy Spirit to produce unity in those he is supposed to indwell.

I believe there's unity. If your a Christian then you believe in Jesus and that is unity. Nothing else really matters.

Originally posted by pdpayne0418
6. The schizophrenic nature of Jesus' teachings (i.e. peace or the sword, depending on what section you read).

He wasn't a schizoid. You have to read the Bible in context and not take a few verses and call Jesus a lunatic.

Originally posted by pdpayne0418
7. The strong-handed techniques used by the early church in constructing dogma and a canon.

You have any sources for that?

Originally posted by pdpayne0418
I look forward to reading of your reasons for unbelief, and will probably add more of my own as the mental juices start flowing

Something cannot come from nothing. That' means there is a creator.

Thanks,
TT

If even one contradiction found at Bible Contradictions is true, then the entire Bible stands in question.

The religious figures previous to Jesus were copycats of Jesus? This does not even begin to make sense.

My point concerning God's revealing of Himself has nothing to do with His supposed choice to do it in a book. My point was that, having chosen to reveal Himself in a book, it seems He could have done it minus the contradictions.

We did not ask to be born with the choice between heaven and hell. It's not a choice if we are threatened with punishment for making one choice rather than another. Imagine a parent saying to his child, "I'll let you choose to major in chemistry or history, but if choose history, I'll kill you." I guess it's technically a choice, but certainly not one a loving parent would present.

Over 30,000 different Christian denominations, many of whom do not believe people in other denominations are Christians, is unity? If you say so.

Who establishes the context under which we are supposed to read the Bible. I agree it should be read in its historical context as much as possible, and even when so read, Jesus comes off as pretty schizophrenic.

The losers in every church council, the Inquisition, Calvin's Geneva: these are a few examples of heavy-handedness.

By the way, if you want to use the "something cannot come from nothing" argument, then you have to deal with an infinite regress.

Peace,
Daniel

[edit on 7-8-2009 by pdpayne0418]

[edit on 7-8-2009 by pdpayne0418]