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Cash for Clunkers; Keeping Americans in Debt

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posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 06:56 AM
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The Cash for Clunkers programs has got to be the shining example of how all the government cares about is keeping citizens in debt with lenders.

Why would the administration be pushing people into further payments.

The cars being traded in are usually paid off, owned outright. The new cars
are on average about 4 times more expensive, and therefore puts the owner
back into car payments.

Also, the government gets to tax the transaction, tax the new plates..and the
insurance company gets money because one would have to carry full coverage, as opposed to liability for the old car.

Now the cars turned in, many of them, someone elses dream car, are taken to the salvage yard, where the catalytic converter, battery, tires and radiator are pulled, the car is crushed, shredded and sold to an OVERSEAS salvage company.

That's right, the metal, which America needs, is not even staying in the country.

online.wsj.com...

More pillaging. They won't be happy until they have everything from you.




posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 07:01 AM
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reply to post by Udontknowme
 


Whats really stupid is that each year atleast one car dealership does the push it, drag it or haul it in for a trade in deal.

The only differance is that the government is swallowing the cost instead of the dealerships.



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 07:05 AM
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Ron Paul does a good job of breaking down the whole program:




posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 07:13 AM
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Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by Udontknowme
 


Whats really stupid is that each year atleast one car dealership does the push it, drag it or haul it in for a trade in deal.

The only differance is that the government is swallowing the cost instead of the dealerships.



Yeah, like the government has the money.

I mean, they are walking around like they've got money to burn.

The money of all Americans. If the Fed had to print up previous money, one could imagine that the money for the Cash for Clunkers program is being printed too.

So, once again, Americans are tapped to pay the lenders. Usury at it's worst.
Slavery.



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 07:16 AM
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BINGO! Turn over your assets and finance a shiny new car that gets marginally better gas mileage than your old one. I went to a car dealership to look around on Saturday and I saw the steaming pile of junk cars that were redeemed sitting in the back lot of the dealership. One of which had a piece of plastic sheething for a passenger window. What are the dealers supposed to do with these mostly unsellable cars now?? Scrap value...Landfill...artificial reef...Demolition Derby.

I don't have a P.O.S. to redeem so where is my incentive? I would also love to build a new home but I'm not a first time homebuyer. No incentive for me either. Who are these programs really helping?

How about cutting taxes on personal income and small businesses? I think I will move to North Dakota. They actually understand how to accomplish something for the people in that state.

[edit on 4-8-2009 by jibeho]



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 07:19 AM
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Hey OP, it's so true. I was talking to someone about exactly what you said, but they couldn't figure it out. All they kept repeating was they got a new car and a rebate. They couldn't understand that it's not worth a 4k rebate to get 11k (at least) in debt. It's like going to a furniture store and seeing 75% off on everything. Well, hello, they raised the prices of the furniture 500%, in some cases 1000%. And this is exactly the scam they're trying to push with the universal health care system. "Oh it's free. You won't have to pay anything." Then geithner and these other cronies won't rule out raising taxes. :facepalm: I must have really screwed up in my previous life because this seems like hell to be surrounded by such zombies....



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 07:24 AM
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These programs aren't to help you, the average citizen. They are to help tax revenues and car makers.

The UK has recently introduced a simliar program under the umbrella of "help UK businesses".

All people see is "rebate!" and they think they are getting something for nothing.



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 11:23 AM
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reply to post by Udontknowme
 



Like a guy said they are using the word "gas guzzlers" but the truth is there isn't that much deference and depending on the car zero deference.

And this whole thing is a subsidization to be paid for with tax money. They are trying to prime the sales.

Truth is more have been holding on to used cars even before the meltdown. Used cars were holding their value well before and are dirt cheaper now. Most would be fools to by new. Man! You can get a really good vehicle for say 3,500 and count on driving it for years if you were so inclined or out of necessity.

They are also trying to break the home grown food craze that going on. Do you realize that just 1/2 acre can feed (conservatively) up to 5 families maybe more, including storabel crops and canning for one year. Think of the implications if this catches on. Not to mention the spirit of independence it fosters as well as a general attitude of frugality, awareness of waste and good health.



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 11:36 AM
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If the car you have runs keep it. The payments you would make on a new one will buy alot of gas. And if the car is old enough, there won't be any computer chips in it to get fried if there's some kind of EMP attack.



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 11:44 AM
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Originally posted by jd140
The only differance is that the government is swallowing the cost instead of the dealerships.


Except that some dealerships are matching the governments $4.5K, so you can get up to $9K off a new vehicle.

Just my 2-cents



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by Aggie Man

Originally posted by jd140
The only differance is that the government is swallowing the cost instead of the dealerships.


Except that some dealerships are matching the governments $4.5K, so you can get up to $9K off a new vehicle.

Just my 2-cents


$9K seems like a lot, but our Chysler dealership has raised prices to make up for it. Cars that were $8900 to $13000 last year are $15K and up this year. So your $9K just gets you back to the regular prices anyway!!

It is a wonderful "stimulus" I have to give them that, but it does "hurt the poor" and "keep us in debt"!!

We are removing good used cars from the market, so people won't be able to find those 'bargains' anymore. We are paying interest, taxes, and insurance on the new cars. The new cars will need to be maintanenced by the dealer, no "shadetree" mechanics will be working on them.

Maintenance is much higher on newer cars. I was in the industry for a long while. People don't realize things like tires, or cabin air filters, or electronics are going to cost anywhere from 4x to 10x as much on a newer vehicle!!



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 10:24 PM
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If this was a serious attempt to aid the US auto industry, shouldn't there have been a stipulation that the new car purchase must be from an American company?

I want to see an itemized report on how much of the money was spent on foreign autos.



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 10:42 PM
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reply to post by WTFover
 


That particular idea was squashed by the free traders and by US participation in the WTO. Earlier today I heard that the Obama administration is refusing to release the data on what models have been bought, but later I saw on bloomberg that of the top five models, only one was an American brand.


Four of the top five models sold so far under the U.S. “cash for clunkers” program, aimed at boosting the auto industry, are made by foreign automakers, according to Transportation Department data. Ford Motor Co.’s Focus was the top seller, followed by Toyota Motor Corp.’s Corolla, Honda Motor Co.’s Civic and Toyota’s Prius and Camry, data from the department showed today.


From bloomberg

[edit on 4-8-2009 by jefwane]



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 08:33 PM
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reply to post by jefwane
 


I guess you could tell I already expected that. It still makes me angry. Thanks for the link., though.

Regardless of our 'obligations' to the WTO and whoever else, we have to secure our own financial future, first.



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 08:50 PM
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A poster nailed it. This is putting people back in debt and therefor getting their money back into the system. all those people will be paying lots in interest, and replenishing the banks with their money



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 01:45 AM
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I got a 1995 dodge caravan that I have been driving for 10 years, who is willing to give me 4,500. for it? Who is willing to just give me 4,500. just on a trade in on a better car?

NO ONE! So, I will gladly take 4,500 on a clunker deal towards a new car, pluses I will take an additional 4,000. in discounts not bad for a poor person who really needs a new car starting at 18,000.00 and the payments are only $220.00 month. So why are you all complaining? I am going to enjoy my new ride. Oh by the way the car has a full life time warranty so no repair bills for me, and one more thing I was getting 16 mpg in my old Dodge caravan now I am getting 35 mpg you all should be happy. In fact, the only people who should be angry should be the oil Co. because the most of the old gas-guzzlers are going to be off the road soon.


[edit on 6-8-2009 by impressme]



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 06:58 AM
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Originally posted by impressme
I got a 1995 dodge caravan that I have been driving for 10 years, who is willing to give me 4,500. for it? Who is willing to just give me 4,500. just on a trade in on a better car?

NO ONE! So, I will gladly take 4,500 on a clunker deal towards a new car, pluses I will take an additional 4,000. in discounts not bad for a poor person who really needs a new car starting at 18,000.00 and the payments are only $220.00 month. So why are you all complaining? I am going to enjoy my new ride. Oh by the way the car has a full life time warranty so no repair bills for me, and one more thing I was getting 16 mpg in my old Dodge caravan now I am getting 35 mpg you all should be happy. In fact, the only people who should be angry should be the oil Co. because the most of the old gas-guzzlers are going to be off the road soon.
[edit on 6-8-2009 by impressme]


No doubt, this is a GREAT deal for many!! Congrats on your new van!

It is stimulating the economy through production, retail, credit, and insurance!

But, you no longer own your van. Now it is financed! Now it requires full coverage insurance. Now it will HAVE to be worked on at the dealership. Now you are part of the system again, and you are more easily tracked and controlled via the corporations.

Your old van, which was still working, won't go to a needy family that can't afford anything better. Instead it will be crushed and shipped to China for recycling! That poor family with bad credit and $1000 in hand will have fewer choices and will be forced into the arms of the government for help, so they can be systemized and controlled as well!

[edit on 6-8-2009 by getreadyalready]


[edit on 6-8-2009 by getreadyalready]

[edit on 6-8-2009 by getreadyalready]



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 07:05 AM
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Originally posted by WTFover
If this was a serious attempt to aid the US auto industry, shouldn't there have been a stipulation that the new car purchase must be from an American company?

I want to see an itemized report on how much of the money was spent on foreign autos.


What is an "American Car"??? A few years ago the most "American Car" was a Toyota Van. It had the most American parts and man-hours of any vehicle on the market!! A lot of Fords are bought and pre-assembled by Mazda factories in Asia! A very large percentage of GM parts and pieces come from cheap factories in Asia, even if they get "final assembly" at a U.S. plant!

Honda and Toyota have invested a lot more money in US development than Ford or GM have!!

The whole system is screwy, so it would be impossible to identify an American car or stipulate that you have to purchase one!

EDIT to add:
www.usatoday.com...

It appears Ford and GM have a slight edge on Toyota on this latest report! That is encouraging.

[edit on 6-8-2009 by getreadyalready]



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 07:10 AM
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That $4,500 doesnt even make up for the loss in value the moment you drive it off the lot.

Nobody has any business pretending to "buy" new cars anyway. Certainly not with financing and debt. If you can't pay cash for it you shouldnt be driving it. If I could afford a new car with cash I still wouldnt be buying one. It's the best anti-investment you could make. Just jam your life savings down the garbage disposal.

I've been plowing along in a used truck I paid cash for for years now and will continue to do so for years to come. It runs great.

When you consider the astronomical drop in value of a new car, financing fees, loss on interest had you had put that $200 per month straight into the bank or other investment etc... only a world class chump would jump at this "deal."

That $4500 today will cost you at least $10K tomorrow.



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