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Religion and Atheism, Olive Branch.

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posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 04:21 AM
yeah yeah yeah, get upset at me if you will.

What middle ground can us (me and other atheists) and religious folk (Hindu, Islam, Christianity, ancient greek) find to resolve our differences.

Apparently i've been treating members, as extremists in their religions.

And have clearly been bashed by certain members.

We must find reasonable ground, for I kind of don't want my account here to be completely thought of as hate and such, although I do have it I won't lie.

There must be some middle ground we have so we don't loathe each other.

So i extend a 'Olive Branch' to my religious brothern.

I especially give thanks to OldTimer, for a member, who has been thoroughly and may I say 'religiously' nice throught every post i've seen him make. And have persoanlly congratulated for it.

I find a hardly sought conspiracy, but perhaps a new one here.

Although I find tensions between me, and theists or agnostics, or the almighty, I believe nothing and everyone is wrong groups.

We all despise each other clearly.

Although shall we not be able to discuss religion, or aspects of it. Or aspects of non religion?

Wheres the middle ground.

Debate this thread, hate me for it, and you know who you are, but I won't delete this one.

This is an olive branch, i'm not bashing a religious group, i've done in no such way in the thread, and will not in this, thread, bring up my past post, that's whatever, but, i'm just looking for a middle ground, which everyone seems to know is there, but I believe there is none, until we find it.

Whether it be no mention of religion can be talked about, or what can be questioned?

Obviously i've hit a nerve, or to many nerves.

I ask questions, people say there is no answer, I say why, and so on. So what is acceptable?

[edit on 4-8-2009 by Republican08]

posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 04:28 AM
To elaborate:

What are touchy subjects, things we shouldn't talk about nor discuss.

What are things we should debate upon.

I know I am, but I still try.

Religion and atheism are clashing. We know it, you know it, people know it.

I just find that unless i'm proven one way or another, i'll always seek an answer, and i'm sorry for me being that person and not accepting that, but I will stop being a bashing person, and I hope others will too.

[edit on 4-8-2009 by Republican08]

[edit on 4-8-2009 by Republican08]

posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 04:44 AM
Reply to post by Republican08

Respect would go a long way. As would abandoning the pathological need to seem right, and both sides are hella guilty of it. Simple fact is we just don't know.

Posted Via ATS Mobile:


posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 04:54 AM
Great post. S & F

I have been guilty in the past of dismissing religion, due to my lack of beliefe and personal negative experiences of it.

That said, i respect the fact that i believe in some things that others here may not, and vice versa. Thats all it boils down to in my eyes, respect.

Nobody is saying don't have an opinion or don't voice it, just use a little common sense and forethought before totaly slaying someone who has different beliefs than your own.

I regularly have discussions with friends who are very religious, i know they live their life by their chosen religion and they know i have no belief in it whatsoever. However we are civil and respectful of each other, and thats what gets us through a discussion, a debate, call it what you will.

What you will never call it though is an arguement or a fight.

Even if the other person has not got the communication skills to keep it civil, it takes two to make an the bigger person and keep it civil.

The dificulty has always been where people cannot except that other people have other opinions. It's either their way or no way. You won't get anywhere like that.

So whilst i don't think there will ever be much middle ground when it comes to athiests and religious followers, a mutual respect for each others beliefs will at least produce a twig from that olive branch.


posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 05:00 AM
Disclaimer: I'm a theist but not of the Abrahamic faiths. I have minor biblical scholar and scriptural skills. Also I am not a scientific/legal or medical expert in any field. Beware of my Contagious Memes! & watch out that you don't get cut on my Occams razor.All of this is my personal conjecture and should not be considered the absolute or most definitive state of things as they really are. Use this information at your own risk! I accept no liability if your ideology comes crashing down around you with accompanying consequences!

Explanation: I humbly accept your generous offer of peace!

Personal Disclosure: Starred and Flagged!

posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 06:43 AM
This is a question i have been pondering for a long time..

why do others seek to bring peoples faiths or beliefs crashing down around thier ears when they know that they are happy and at peace with themselves and with what they believe.

Why the need to be so cruel. If someone does not believe then fine, why the need to torment? We don't hang around schools waiting for the kids to come out to tell them that father Christmas isn't real or that thier parents put money under the pillow and not the tooth fairy.
I ask this because i really do need to understand the reason for it.

This sort of conflict never seems to spread to say, the UFO forum.

Just another point..

If someone says that they have had a spiritual experience. not just a fuzzy wuzzy type but say a physical healing that the results can be seen. How can people call them delusional for instance with 100% certanty.
Or better still why the urge to do so.

These questions are very important to me and if someone could give me an answer i would be gratefull.

Heck! I may even stop winding people up with my sarcasm...

posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 03:56 PM
First, I'm so proud of you, Republican08. If you choose to continue posting threads to discuss religion vs atheism (in a civil manner), might I suggest you post a link to this thread in your signature? I think that would be prudent.

I personally feel like people should only share their spiritual ideas with people they know they can trust, relationships with a foundation of mutual respect. Such things cannot really be adequately verbalized, which is why many religious people resort to citing scripture. And that act makes their spiritual beliefs seem less personal.

Language can't do spirituality justice, so people will disagree no matter what. Words have different meanings attached to them for different people. Spirituality is like the poetry of the soul, and the meaning of poetry is defined by the reader. If that makes any sense...

I'm aware that may seem like a cop-out. Just call me 'romantic'.

Anyway, I think both religious and non-religious people probably have common goals, hope for mankind and whatnot... these things need not be tied to spirituality, but to tangible things, to actions, to the way we live our lives. Quite simply, do we want to progress together as a society or continue to be divided by our seemingly different faiths (which are only different because of the words we use to describe ourselves)?

I like this quote:

"I want relations which are not purely personal, based on purely personal qualities; but relations based upon some unanimous accord in truth or belief, and a harmony of purpose, rather than of personality. I am weary of personality. Let us be easy and impersonal, not forever fingering over our own souls, and the souls of our acquaintances, but trying to create a new life, a new common life, a new complete tree of life from the roots that are within us.

~ D. H. Lawrence

Can we unanimously agree that there has been enough hate and intolerance? That humanity could progress more if this were not so? That we have fewer differences than commonalities?

Call me an idealist...

posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 04:17 PM
I don't understand why all Biblical Figures have not had a thorough background check from historical data on ATS. Really the information is out there. But so many people refuse to look at it, because then they would have to question their faith.

I am all for a middle ground. Sadly, I don't think it will ever happen.

posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 04:57 PM
common truths.. between religion and science

all is one
(can be scientifically proven - one field of existing matter/energy)

all human consciousness shares the similar experience of self-awareness

common truths between all religions

* god is all

* love is the answer.

* man can ascend to a divine and immortal form through the mysteries hidden in the depths of all major religious and mythological scripture.

- my off-the-cuff contribution.. obviously can be added to.


posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 05:36 PM

off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 06:33 PM
Religion = Controlled believers in nothing.

Atheism = Free thinkers that know religion is just a bulls**t story to control the weak!

posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 06:38 PM
To me, the middle ground would be everybody accepting that they are discussing a belief or what is true for them personally.

If someone came along with new information that challenged a belief, there is no harm in looking at it fairly before accepting it and adjusting one's beliefs or discarding it and carrying on as before.

All religions, beliefs or lack of belief work for someone. The real harm is done when people can't or won't accept another person's right to believe in something different.

Some would say that a truly religious person would try everything to convert a non-believer out of genuine concern for the condition of their immortal soul.

Others would suspect that the need to convert other people is because the 'believer' lacks confidence in their god and / or realizes that the god requires human belief in order to exist.

I never have a problem accepting someone else's faith. Whatever they worship, (or not) if it works for them I will be quiet and not challenge them. I only ask for the same consideration in return.

It does get my back up a bit that someone will look at me and decide that I am in need of spiritual guidance without even getting to know me, but I am capable of politely declining their offer of 'help'.

It's worth considering that we are all at different stages of development and it's no use a person thinking that they are so enlightened that everyone else should follow what they are doing or thinking. Religion or belief isn't a 'one size fits all'. People will 'get there' wherever 'there' is in their own good time. (Even if 'there' is nowhere).

If you're living your life well and have standards - doing no harm being about the best - what difference does it make if you die and turn to nothing or you go on to exist in a more spiritual place? The fact that you've lived your life ethically and to the benefit of those around you can only be a good thing. *

* This brings us back to people who seek to convert others
Some are sincere and think they are doing us all a favour by trying to convert us. I suppose distance is the best defense.

posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 07:19 PM
How about this: Whether or not there is a divine being behind the very universe we observe, we are all fragile lifeforms on an unforgiving rock in a universe that is seemingly indifferent to life. Let us get along and aide in the prolonged survival of one another and worry about the specifics when the time comes (read: we die). Aslong as we are the best possible people we can be without being chained down by any book or belief based system, all should be right in the universe and in an even larger sense if it exists. (Insert optional AMEN here).

I highly recommend this to be the opening of the Atheist-Theist peace treaty

[edit on 4-8-2009 by Eitimzevinten]

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