So you think the Bible is a conspiracy? Watch this...

Originally posted by Melissa101
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

Ok take what you think is logic and scientific and throw it in the trash. Now God is science, God is logic. Okay now if God wanted to crack the rock and give water to a million people in the middle of the desert that only gets 1/2 an inch of rain per year why did'nt he make it rain?

So many people think God and science are two different things but in fact God is the greatest scientist ever look at all he made and we are only starting to grasp the tip of his science and we often think we are soooo smart... LOL... LOL...

1) I agree that what "They" or "the mainstream" consider as "science" is garbage, and i threw that away long ago. There is far more sensible solutions such as "Real Science".

2) I think God and Science are the same thing. However I do not view "God" as a person, because Genesis clearly states, God is ALL things. God is everywhere and everything. So personifying God is an illusion and we must get past that.

How can "Everything and Everywhere" turn into a Zeus like figure in the clouds, speak to people, and throw lightening bolts around? That is not God, thats a freakin Alien.

God = Everything
Aliens = from the sky, talks with words, throws lightening bolts (lasers)

There is a distinction we must make here, and it is missing from the Bible. The Bible seems to continuously get "Aliens" mixed up with "God".

The people of the time believed in magic and other such things, they did not realize there is a explanation behind all things. So any time an alien came down, they automatically called it "God". Simple mistake. Easy to make if your not very educated.

Now, a reasonable argument would be "Do aliens = angels?" And this is something I believe we could debate about for a very long time. Although there is a clear distinction between "good and bad angels" as well. I think it is all buried deeply within our semantics or linguistics.

I am just trying to bridge the gap between "religion" and "science". The truth lies in the middle of these two. IMO

reply to post by phi1618

Without religion this world would be a very lifeless place and just as violent as it is now. The shameful history of violence and corruption associated with Christianity is all the product of evil manipulation of a good, wholesome thing (Christianity) to fulfill human desires and satisfy the lust for power that plagues mankind.

Imagine if you will that someone claiming to be taking donations for a well-known, highly respected charity such as the Make a Wish Foundation turned out to be stealing money under the guise of a good cause. Who would you blame? Is it the charity's fault that someone manipulated its good cause to commit evil? Would you rather the charity not exist so no more people could steal under its guise?

Religion is no different. Every religion out there, regardless of its validity, claims to be something that can help people. There are those who manipulate these good intentions to commit evil. That is their fault and their fault alone.

Trust me, if there were no religion there would be just as much evil to go around. People would find reasons to murder, conquer, steal, rape, and to commit the whole lot of evil deeds. They would manipulate charity, business, trust, and a variety of other "good things" to do it. What religion has tried to do is encourage wholesomeness and good deeds. What people do is another story that is in no way something that religion itself should be punished for.

When evil is done in the name of religion, blame not the religion, but blame instead the one who used something good as an excuse to do something horrible.


[edit on 4-8-2009 by MEAT10AF]

reply to post by KrazyJethro
2) Spewing contrived lines and lame ideas that you folks are the alpha and omega of good in the world (a fountain if you will) is sheer nonsense and you know it (although I'm sure it pains you).


Well Jethro who is crazy you are not exactly right. I never claimed to be the alpha or omega of any good I am human and I was born a sinner I am not perfect only Jesus was perfect making him the unblemished lamb to die and wash our sins clean and give us a snow balls chance out of hell.
It does not hurt me at all to admit that I am human and not all good. To be honest I am the daughter of the devil yet I even have (thanks to Jesus Christ) the ability to go to heaven. Moses was a murderer and God chose him to lead the Exodus and God gave him the laws. See you can be a drug attic, a drunk, and this is hard for me to admit but even a child abuser and God will not reject you if you do not reject him. It is sad to see that all of Satans brain washing has actualy fooled so many people into not believing it is you my dear crazy jethro that has been dooped. And thanks but I do not need luck, (that is a pegan belief taught by satan over 3000 years ago and yall still fall for it LOL...) I have God

reply to post by Melissa101


I didnt say remove GOD, i simply said remove religion. You seem to be dodging or misinterpreting the question.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Good luck getting the Saudi's letting a group of Archaeologists in there to do an excavation. Although the people in the video doubt the Saudi's know what they have, I guarantee they know exactly what they have there. They are probably studying it themselves, or just trying to keep people out of there so no one can know the truth.

Anyway this shouldn't be turned into a big religious debate. The Bible seems like it has historical evidence for the events that took place. That is not really shocking to me, and those that doubt the historical accuracy of the people and the events are idiots. I mean I had a guy argue the authenticity of Solomon. That to me is ridiculous. To me the Old Testament has more historical authenticity than the New Testament (although I believe both happened!).

People don't seem to realize that The Bible is a historical record mixed in with religious beliefs of he Hebrew people. If you look in the Bible you see a lot of Genealogy, now there is a reason for this. It's not just because people liked looking at who was a descendant of who, it was also so the Jewish people could say which tribe they were from and which ancestor they shared with certain figures. These stories were told, and some written, and passed down from generation to generation, LIKE ALL OF EARLY MAN'S STORIES WERE! So what's the difference between trusting what an Egyptian wrote 2000 years ago, and what a Hebrew wrote 1000 years ago? Nada.

[edit on 4-8-2009 by asmall89]

See I knew it, a freaking circus already

Sure is a shame this magnitude of a archaelogical find will be buried under massive arguments of "my religion is best" when in reality we should be TRYING TO FIGURE THIS OUT TOGETHER!

No one has "IT" figured out yet, not the Christians the Muslims the Jews the Hindi, the Scientists no one!

We should all be working together to determine what exactly is going on here at Earth. Rather than arguing about who knows it all.

I want to know what happened there. I want to see more information.

Could we just keep religion out of it for 1 minute so we can study the dang rock a little closer?

I want to know how the rock split when Moses told it to. (If this really did indeed occur).

reply to post by muzzleflash


Muzzleflash you earned an A in Melissa101 today with this...
How can "Everything and Everywhere" turn into a Zeus like figure in the clouds, speak to people, and throw lightening bolts around? That is not God, thats a freakin Alien.
Pegan Catholics in Rome around 600 AD made society think of God like they thought of their 'gods" you nailed it Zeus was a mythological "god" and many pegan beliefs as well as Catholic beliefs were mixed in with the ONE TRUE "religion" to draw a bigger crowd and it worked perfectly for satans long term plan to cunfuse many people. Satan new that this would keep people fighting to the end of time.
Christ mas (the mass of Christ)
Sunday (Pegan Son God)
July (The month named after Julieus Ceasar)
Santa Clause (St. Nick)
Easter bunny and eggs (pegan faterlity rituals)
and I could go on and on but you can look it up I am getting tired and my spelling is getting worce by the minuet...

Originally posted by Melissa101
reply to post by phi1618

 

I have a hypothetical for you, if there was no religion would the world be a better more tolerant place??

LOL... NO, it would be swallowed up with evil. The Bible says that Christains are the salt of the Earth. When the rapture occures and we are all gone the great tribulation will start because the salt of the earth will be gone and so will it's tollerence, peace, and love.

Now that is the kind of thing that gets to my nerves, saying that christians are the only good ones in Earth and that everyone else is evil.
i am an atheist. By your assumption i would have raped a baby, killed seven people, stolen 1000 dollars at gun point, and kicked a dog.
guess what? I never harmed anyone, stolen anything, or caused unnecessary harm to any animal. i have not done anything that would break any of the major laws and I live a decent life. Guess what? you don't need to be a christian to be good.

in fact, most of the atheist I have met are better people than most of the christians i have met. and I have met MANY christians. and very few atheist. Many christians would discriminate against homosexuals, while many atheist would not give a crap on what the person's preference for a partner is.

and you say that without christians the world would turn evil? you do know that christianity did not ALWAYS exist right?

and you claim the bible is truth. the bible might have a few true stories, but they are hidden among all the mythology which makes it hard to see which ones are true and which ones are false. In addition, most of the "proof" christians show is that places mentioned in the bible are later found by archaeologist. But because a place is mentioned does not automatically mean that there is a god. In fact all it proves is that the story was based in that mentioned place. you wouldn't believe the creature of Frankenstein actually existed because it was mentioned in a book would you?

If you want us atheist to believe in a book that claims a snake convinced a woman to eat from a magical tree, two of every animal can actually fit in a wooden ship, and the only way to get to some fictional paradise is by praying to a zombie guy who ascended to heaven, then you will have to kill our critical thinking skills and ability to dissect truth from fiction

(to all those who will obviously flame me. I don't have a problem with christians themselves, in fact many of you are pretty cool people. i have a problem with the religion and fundamentalist christians who believe non-christians are "evil" or less "righteous" than christians)

reply to post by asmall89


Why would the Sauds' hide it?

I mean if it proves the Bible true, than certainly it will prove most of their religion, Islam, true as well.

However my gut instinct is that there is ET intervention here to some extent. And that really hurts BOTH religions. Which is a good thing.

There is only 1 truth after all, and we are all missing it.

Its already been posted before here.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Oh and search ATS for Ron Wyatt.

15 year old story I think.

reply to post by Melissa101


Ok so maybe we are on the same page here after all.

So if "God" is not a "Person", than what/who was talking to Moses? And what caused the rock to split?

This is all I want to know.

The answer to this could solve just about any of our "problems" in today's society. For sure.

Originally posted by phi1618
reply to post by Melissa101

 

I didnt say remove GOD, i simply said remove religion. You seem to be dodging or misinterpreting the question.

I know you did not say remove God I just thought I would answer it before it was asked. Now I tried to answer your question clearly but to simplify it for you NO the Earth would not be in a better place if all religions' were removed. The Earth would be in a worse place, well it would not be. If you removed man made religions then YES the Earth would be in a better place. I hope this helps.

Originally posted by muzzleflash


We should all be working together to determine what exactly is going on here at Earth.

i can answer that in 3 words.

Me and You.

the answer actually came from an old Russian proverb, when a child asked his mother why we are here, and what the meaning of life was.

or something like that, anyway that was her answer, and it speaks volumes.

[edit on 4-8-2009 by phi1618]

reply to post by muzzleflash


Yeah that's my view on it too. I really don't know why the Saudi's would hide it otherwise. I guess the common thought is they don't want Judaism or Christianity to have any evidence, but yeah Abraham & Moses are respected figures in the Islam faith. Of course Mt. Ararat is hard to get to as well, which is where Noah's Ark is supposed to be which happens to be in Saudi Arabia too.

If there was ET presence there probably was radiation, but now it's probably all decayed. What they need to do is dig underneath the rock and see if there is any evidence of a spring or geyser. It's always puzzled me why people don't look into the Bible events more and read it like a map and excavate and what not.

[edit on 4-8-2009 by asmall89]

Originally posted by Melissa101

Originally posted by phi1618
reply to post by Melissa101

 

I didnt say remove GOD, i simply said remove religion. You seem to be dodging or misinterpreting the question.

I know you did not say remove God I just thought I would answer it before it was asked. Now I tried to answer your question clearly but to simplify it for you NO the Earth would not be in a better place if all religions' were removed. The Earth would be in a worse place, well it would not be. If you removed man made religions then YES the Earth would be in a better place. I hope this helps.

Well as a matter of fact, there was once a time long long ago where there was no religion........im pretty sure the world was there, or else we wouldnt be here.......and also maybe a better place. let me break down my thinking process, and its strikingly simple. If there was no organized religion ( meaning it went by no name ) would be not have averted a massive amount of bloodshed. How much blood has been spilled in the name of GOD.

edit add - also every religion thinks their religion is the not man made one...

[edit on 4-8-2009 by phi1618]

[edit on 4-8-2009 by phi1618]

LOUD NOISES!!!!!!!!!!!

Get it? It's always like this with this subject. the atheists attack the fringe religious, feeding on the argument like vultures.
At the same time, the fringe band together for power in numbers.
if we could direct our energy collectively towards something along the same goal the thing within those sights would be completely and utterly screwed/devastated/calling for mommy.

Originally posted by phi1618

Me and You.

the answer actually came from an old Russian proverb, when a child asked his mother why we are here, and what the meaning of life was.

Awesome proverb.

Star for your quick wit.

Originally posted by heyo
LOUD NOISES!!!!!!!!!!!

Get it? It's always like this with this subject. the atheists attack the fringe religious, feeding on the argument like vultures.
At the same time, the fringe band together for power in numbers.
if we could direct our energy collectively towards something along the same goal the thing within those sights would be completely and utterly screwed/devastated/calling for mommy.

Isnt that what the OP wanted? i mean posting this thread. The very title of this threads challenge a belief with another.

I am stuck with a lack of belief. Because I still do not know what happened with that split rock and the water erosion. Coupled with the story of Moses and bam. I am back at square 1.

I need a belief. But I kinda need a hard core excavation and investigation first. Call up all the good scientists and theologians. Get everyone in on it. Theres gotta be answers, I can taste them already.

Originally posted by newworld

Originally posted by Melissa101
reply to post by phi1618

 

I have a hypothetical for you, if there was no religion would the world be a better more tolerant place??

LOL... NO, it would be swallowed up with evil. The Bible says that Christains are the salt of the Earth. When the rapture occures and we are all gone the great tribulation will start because the salt of the earth will be gone and so will it's tollerence, peace, and love.

Now that is the kind of thing that gets to my nerves, saying that christians are the only good ones in Earth and that everyone else is evil.
i am an atheist. By your assumption i would have raped a baby, killed seven people, stolen 1000 dollars at gun point, and kicked a dog.
guess what? I never harmed anyone, stolen anything, or caused unnecessary harm to any animal. i have not done anything that would break any of the major laws and I live a decent life. Guess what? you don't need to be a christian to be good.

in fact, most of the atheist I have met are better people than most of the christians i have met. and I have met MANY christians. and very few atheist. Many christians would discriminate against homosexuals, while many atheist would not give a crap on what the person's preference for a partner is.

and you say that without christians the world would turn evil? you do know that christianity did not ALWAYS exist right?

and you claim the bible is truth. the bible might have a few true stories, but they are hidden among all the mythology which makes it hard to see which ones are true and which ones are false. In addition, most of the "proof" christians show is that places mentioned in the bible are later found by archaeologist. But because a place is mentioned does not automatically mean that there is a god. In fact all it proves is that the story was based in that mentioned place. you wouldn't believe the creature of Frankenstein actually existed because it was mentioned in a book would you?

If you want us atheist to believe in a book that claims a snake convinced a woman to eat from a magical tree, two of every animal can actually fit in a wooden ship, and the only way to get to some fictional paradise is by praying to a zombie guy who ascended to heaven, then you will have to kill our critical thinking skills and ability to dissect truth from fiction

(to all those who will obviously flame me. I don't have a problem with christians themselves, in fact many of you are pretty cool people. i have a problem with the religion and fundamentalist christians who believe non-christians are "evil" or less "righteous" than christians)

I agree, well kinda, not all Christians are pure good. We never claimed to be. We are just like you. Those things you mentioned are horrible acts and Christains hate them. But if you come to know Christ after you sinned then you can be saved. There is no sin that cannot be forgiven. Like I said I do not like to admit that someone can abuse a child and go to heaven that is hard for me but we are human so we are not as forgiving as God. It is the misconceptions that get on your nerves and mine to. Most people are led to believe that if you are Christain you should never sin this is Satans favorit ace in the hole.It is true that Christains should strive to not sin but it is hard. You see nosey little women looking in Aw saying "That preacher aint no Christian I seen him a smoking" It is ignorance like that that keeps people from God. Society has been brainwashed into believing lies that are not true about God and the ONE true belief. And no I do not think all non Christains are evil they are just like me (HUMAN) except they do not believe. It is a Christains job to try to teach people the truth not beat them with it. Yea you may be good, good as gold but good is not what gets us into heaven. It is good to be good but believing in Jesus Christ is the key, he died for our sins because we are human and we will all sin. You know there is another misconception too; sins are not rated on a scale Murder being 9, Rape being 10, stealing being 3, lying being a 1. Lying is as bad a sin as killing stealing is as bad as rape. In our world we kind of have a rwting system vut in God's world it is all the same.