Obama IN HIS OWN WORDS saying His Health Care Plan will ELIMINATE private insurance

reply to post by Aggie Man



I think you'll discover that private health insurance companies will finally have to FIGHT for and EARN their dollar, once nationalised health care gets in. They'll have to sweeten the pot, once people are free of their greedy grasp.

The private insurance racketeers will suddenly start offering cheaper rates and bonuses. including alternative health methods, accupressure, massage, cosmetic dentistry, etc. etc., just as they do in other nations with nationalised health

reply to post by Aggie Man

I don't think someones livelihood should come with co-pays and premiums....and denial notices!

Yea instead it comes with higher taxes that cost the price of the premiums and with the denial notices in the form of rationed care.

reply to post by St Vaast

Whereas under nationalised health care, people could scrap their ludicrously high private health cover and head to the hospital or doctor for free.

There aint nothing free in life. We will be paying for it in higher taxes. So please tell me how is it a benefit to anyone when people will be paying almost one 100% of their paychecks in taxes?

It ain't free.

You know maybe if people in this country actually had a spine and stood up to these crooks they would actually listen to us, instead we have people, that think it isn't ever going to happen, so we should just settle for what the government offers us.

People need to grow a spine and start demanding the people that work for us do what we want them to do, not settle for what they want to offer us.

reply to post by Aggie Man

Socialized medicine takes care of ALL those issues...without adding to the mountains of already existing vague legislation

No, instead we are going to get mountains of vauge legislation and a complete government takeover of health care.

Also, tell me something, how does it save me money by my taxes being raised? Socialized medicine does not solve the issue of not costing anything.

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
Also, tell me something, how does it save me money by my taxes being raised?

I'm not sure...I'm not your accountant Let me see your financial records and maybe I can tell.....

My guess is that you are going to fall in the Tax bracket that HAS to pay more than lower/middle class....So sorry!

reply to post by Aggie Man

My guess is that you are going to fall in the Tax bracket that HAS to pay more than lower/middle class....So sorry!

Actually no I don't, but I'm also smart enough to know that the cost of everything I buy is going to go up in price because of the increase in taxes.

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
reply to post by Aggie Man

 

Actually no I don't, but I'm also smart enough to know that the cost of everything I buy is going to go up in price because of the increase in taxes.

Really? What NEW taxes are you referring to? I'm apparently not affected here in my middle class life in TX. Glad we are out of the mainstream.

[edit on 3-8-2009 by Aggie Man]

There is one huge problem with Obama's plan, the Democrat's plan, and the Republican's plan: They all center around insurance.

Insurance is the single biggest contributor to the problems we have already with health care. You see, years ago people actually paid money to doctors for treatment. In order to have patients, the doctors had to keep their charges low enough that people had enough money to use their services. Some doctors became uber-wealthy by accepting goods for their services, be those goods chickens, goats, cattle, produce, or even land (which became extremely valuable as the years passed).

Enter insurance. With insurance, you have no worry about how much the medical bill is; you aren't the one paying it. With insurance all you need worry about is paying the premiums. So with insurance, doctors can charge more. A person will complain less about paying $500 a month than they will about paying a one-time fee of $5000.00. And in a year's timje, they will have paid $6000.00 in insurance premiums as compared to the 5000.00 they would have paid one time.

So now doctors can charge more and still get paid. But of course, insurance companies aren't going to operate in the red; they charge premiums based on what they have to pay out. So insurance rates go up. As insurance rates go up, doctors realize there is more money available so they charge more. As they charge more, insurance rates increase. It's a vicious spiral.

Eventually you end up where we are now. In order to curb insurance rates and keep customers, insurance companies begin limiting care. Doctors meanwhile are busily trying to increase the amount of care they give, because we now have an entire generation of doctors who realized the money available and got into the profession to get rich, not to help people. We the people are caught in the middle. And of course, for those who can't afford insurance (or can't get private insurance for health reasons), they are left out in the cold with outrageous health care costs. They simply can't compete against the financial prowess of the insurance companies.

I see the same thing happening to automobile repair. Costs have approached the point where companies are offering repair insurance. Just watch and see how fast prices will skyrocket as soon as enough people have this repair insurance.

So far, every single plan I have seen focuses on fixing insurance. I don't want insurance; I want health care. They are not the same thing! There would be more improvement in the availability of heath care if insurance were prohibited.

Insurance companies never healed anyone in the history of mankind. Think about it the next time you hear about the medical problems we have: do you want insurance, or health care?

TheRedneck

reply to post by Aggie Man


The new taxes that are going to be instituted to pay for the 1.3 trillion dollar deficit that we have that is projected to be 1.8 trillion by September.

Do you not realize everybody is going to have to pay for this? If they were to tax the rich 100% of their income it wouldn't even come close to being able to pay for it.

I guess you haven't been paying attention to the people from the Obama administration saying that they "might" have to raise taxes on the middle class to pay down the deficit?

So let's see, Cap and Trade passes, higher energy costs due to the taxes on every company in America, Health Care passes, higher taxes to pay for it, then Obama also wants to cut the deficit in half by the end of his first term.

So tell me something, where are they going to get all this money from? Print it? Yep there goes higher cost for everything we by because of inflation. Which means the standard of living goes down because everything cost more.

Well I hope so! Why should there be a third party in between Doctors and health raising the cost for no value added?

I am all for capitalism as long as it does not allow companies to grow large and powerful enough to ruin our nation.

Sure, research scientists, doctors, nurses etc... deserve to be wealthy based on their ability to do their job. Aside from that there really should be no other profiteers when it comes to peoples health.

There are plenty of other things people can become wealthy with.

I also think a persons health care should come before his need to pay taxes. Health care cost should be 100% deductible.

There are some very valid points being made on both sides of the spectrum here, and I applaud that. I don't think a government OPTION is a bad thing. If the govt wants to set up clinics that can provide low cost, or free health care, I think that could possibly be a great thing. But what President Obama is saying here is that you will no longer have the option to private health care coverage.

I am lucky enough to have great health insurence provided by my employer, and I do not say this to brag, but to point out that the "single payer" plan will take this away from me. I have worked very hard to educate myself, and find a job that offers such benefits to bring on and retain employers.

So the question is WHY DO I HAVE TO LOSE MY COVERAGE?

-E-

[edit on 3-8-2009 by MysterE]

reply to post by TheRedneck

Good evening Redneck. Good to see you back here.
As usual, you have hit the nail on the head. Yes, you are correct, it is insurance that is the problem. In fact, if people would take a look at the cost of all the insurance that they have, they would be shocked. Most people have auto insurance, home insurance, health insurance, life insurance, insurance on appliances and electronics, and the list goes on. Over a lifetime, I guarantee that you will, on average, pay more for insurance, than you will ever receive(cost adjusted for present value of money). How can I be so certain? Simple- insurance companies make money. (Of course, if they don't, the government is always there to give them a bailout.)

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


You are totally correct. Nothing comes for free. The thing that suckers in a lot of people is how Obama keeps talking about only raising taxes on the Top 1%, so they think they are going to get healtch care for "free", meaning they dont care if they rob the top 1%, because they all think that people that are wealthy are also evil.

The other thing they dont realize is that he might not raise INCOME taxes on the lower middle class on down, but he will tax them in other ways.
1. Tobacco Taxes
2. Cap and Trade - which will raise EVERYONES utility bill
3. Increased taxes on businesses and the wealthy, which will just trickle down to everyone else because businesses count taxes as an expense and will just raise their price to cover the expense.

reply to post by grapesofraft


Yep, I expect them to take the route of a VAT. If you think people are PO'd now we haven't seen anything yet.

The numbers just don't add up anyway you look at it. Not to mention there was a thread posted earlier that was saying how the governments tax receipts are the lowest since 1932.

All this cash has to come from somewhere, and it isn't going to come in the form of spending cuts.

Also, there are already free clinics that people can go to that the taxpayers pay for. The problem is a lot of people don't want to go to the second tier clinic because of pride or whatever, they want to go to the first tier, so the government solution is, put everybody on the second tier.

And the whitehouse strikes back!
White House uses Web against Drudge attack

The White House is turning to the Internet to hit back at a Web posting that claims to show President Barack Obama explaining how his health care reform plans eventually would eliminate private insurance.

-E-

reply to post by MysterE


Well it seems that Obama admin is still in full fledged campaign mode. Crazy stuff.

When is he going to stop campaigning and actually do something, wait that is okay he can keep campaigning, people will be sick of him by re-election comes around.

I must be the only person in the US that loves my health care coverage. Don't make me lose it! Just offer something as optional for people who need healthcare! It sounds so easy! How do we end up with a 1000 page bill that no one in Congress wrote or has read??

reply to post by jjkenobi


Your not the only one!

-E-

reply to post by TheRedneck


Thats true.. Insurance is the problem..
BUT.. you cant avoid insurance.. Health is not something you can predict.. You can get sick anytime and need health care.. What will you do if you cant pay the bills? Its the same logic as car insurance, home insurance, etc..
The only way you can avoid insurance is with a national health system (Please DONT mistake this with a single player.. its not same thing).. That will turn private insurance optional and not 100% necessary..
It seems Obama want a single player system though..

[edit on 4-8-2009 by Picao84]

Originally posted by Aggie Man

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
reply to post by Aggie Man

 

Actually no I don't, but I'm also smart enough to know that the cost of everything I buy is going to go up in price because of the increase in taxes.

Really? What NEW taxes are you referring to? I'm apparently not affected here in my middle class life in TX. Glad we are out of the mainstream.

[edit on 3-8-2009 by Aggie Man]

Show me an example of government run healthcare that didn't go way over budget, requiring an increase in taxes, and I might believe there is a possibility it won't increase taxes. There are also many studies that have shown Obamas healthcare budget doesn't add up.

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
When is he going to stop campaigning and actually do something, wait that is okay he can keep campaigning, people will be sick of him by re-election comes around.

Perhaps the people will be tired of Obama by the time election time rolls around but....

They will also be tired of the conservatives whining, crybaby finger pointing with out alternative solutions/proposals.

Negative campaigns are obsolete. It didn't work with McCain/Palin and it won't work in 2012.

The GOP needs to have a positive workable solutions, not just swiftboat tactics.

Topic....Insurance companies suck. They are just like politicians; they promise but don't deliver. National health care can work if it is run like the VA or the Indian Health Service. Both paid for by taxes.

[edit on 4-8-2009 by whaaa]