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United States is the largest holder of its own debt

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posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 03:28 PM
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reply to post by johnny2127
 




1) The have made a profit every year including in the great depression


True, however most (exclude operating cost) is 'remitted' to the Treasury.
The profit comes from the US giving it cash which it spreads through the economy earning interest .. for instance, the Discount Window.



2) The are not owned by the govt, but instead by a group of shareholders that they will not disclose the current names of.


This is incorrect.. I am not entirely sure what the first EX quote is implying, but I believe it is taken out of context. The Reserve is NOT a bank, nor is it a Reserve... and there is no stock to buy .. you cannot find it on any exchange or public record (which any company issuing stock must do). It would also have a Corporate Charter. But it doesn't, because it's charter is an extension from Congress.



3) All shareholders are entitled by law to a 6% dividend, AND compensation. That is billions of dollars every year.


This doesn't even make sense, as Corporations dictate the % of return, not laws. The profit, minus operating cost, is still returned to Congress. The Fed averaged 30 some billion in profit .. I have shown 35billion remitted to Congress in 2007 ... this is the profit, and it re-enforces exactly what I said in previous posts.



4) Some profit IS transferred back to the Treasury, AFTER all expenses, compensation, and shareholder dividend is paid.


Unless you can break down the numbers exactly how much profit is made after operating expenses and remittance .. I can only assume you're playing on words. The "Share Holders" in all likelihood is in reference to Member Banks, who make up the Federal Reserve. That is common knowledge.

IMO, you are trying to manipulate words to fit your agenda.




posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 04:37 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


This is Section 7 of the Federal Reserve Act:



After all necessary expenses of a Federal reserve bank have been paid or provided for, the stockholders of the bank shall be entitled to receive an annual dividend of 6 percent on paid-in capital stock.


The Federal Reserve Act was written by bankers at the time. Hence why, you there are shareholders, that are kept secret, and they are guaranteed a 6% dividend under the law. I am not making this up.

You ask for proof, I show you from the Federal Reserve's own website where they lay out that they have 'private interests' as well as public, that they have shareholders and are required to pay them a 6% dividend. And then I show you a report from the International Monetary Fund taking about profits of the FRB.

You counter that it says that the Fed give 'most of the profits' back to the Treasury, but then somehow ignore that the word 'MOST' is in there. In other words they keep some and pay profits to its shareholders.

Think about it for a moment; the Federal Reserve Act was written by bankers and lobbied for by bankers. They created an entity that operates within the govt but its part of it, that make profit and has a dividend required by law to be paid to its shareholders, all of which isn't taxed as part of the Act.

After looking at all of this are you really still trying to say the Fed isn't a corporation owned by shareholders? You really one of the few people that still thinks the Fed is part of the govt?



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by johnny2127
"After looking at all of this are you really still trying to say the Fed isn't a corporation owned by shareholders? You really one of the few people that still thinks the Fed is part of the govt?"
 

You are quite correct Johnny2127 the Federal Reserve has about as much to do with the Federal Govt. As 'Federal Express'. Just because it has Federal in its title doesn't mean a thing. Don't be fooled folks The Federal Reserve is a private Corporation that is very secretive. They do not have to list thier share holders like every other corporation here in America does but it also does not have to release the minutes of thier board meetings. In short what happens at the Federal Reserve is done in complete secrecy. This whole thing is looking more and more like a giant ponzi scheme the likes of which history has never witnessed before.



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 05:57 PM
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reply to post by johnny2127
 


Hmm .. do you understand how a corporation even works?

Do I believe the FED is part of the Government? No, not per se.. It is a mixture of Private and Government.

The Government holds it's charter, and the ability to revoke it.. as well as choosing the head of the FED.

It is made up of Member Banks .. the Member Banks hold "non-transferable shares" in the Federal Reserve .. basically the Member Banks are paid this 6% dividend, which is expected as the Federal Reserve is private.

The Governors which represent the Federal Reserve and the 12 district Reserves are chosen by the President.

Basically .. you still fail to see how the system works.

(EDIT to add .. because I know you don't understand any of this .. that the Non-Transferable shares are owned by Banks .. and cannot be sold, traded, or otherwise altered. They are not owned by individuals. The share holders of the banks themselves ultimately are the directors of the Reserve, or, I should say, have the most influence over the Reserves actions.)

[edit on 8/5/2009 by Rockpuck]



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 10:06 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck


Basically .. you still fail to see how the system works.


So do many people. Even some bankers can't grasp the conceptual duties that the institution has performed since it was establihed by the Congress back in 1913.

[edit on 8/5/2009 by stander]



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 11:00 PM
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Originally posted by the way
Hey, I don't claim to be an expert on this by any stretch of the imagination!

My understanding is that the federal reserve is a private, unregulated, for profit organisation that is propped up by foreign investment and paid on the debt the U.S has.

The more in debt the U.S gets the more money they make.

Thats my understanding of it.

Feel free to correct me if thats wrong?


It is all explained pretty well by the web video "money as debt".

Money as debt

Worth watching.

[edit on 5-8-2009 by Ex_MislTech]



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 11:30 PM
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reply to post by Ex_MislTech
 


Indeed, very good explanation of Reserve Banking.



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 01:19 AM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Ex_MislTech
 


Indeed, very good explanation of Reserve Banking.

Now you see that demand for money creates money. Legitimate demand for money creates "good" money. The other demand -- a request for a loan to create another financial instrument -- creates "questionable money." The "subprime" demand for money created lots of very questionable money no one later wanted when they turned outright "bad". But you can't really tell apart the good money and the bad money -- they are both the "legal tender." What was known as "reserve banking" turned into "reverse banking," or something like that.



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 01:55 AM
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Originally posted by stander

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Ex_MislTech
 


Indeed, very good explanation of Reserve Banking.

Now you see that demand for money creates money. Legitimate demand for money creates "good" money. The other demand -- a request for a loan to create another financial instrument -- creates "questionable money." The "subprime" demand for money created lots of very questionable money no one later wanted when they turned outright "bad". But you can't really tell apart the good money and the bad money -- they are both the "legal tender." What was known as "reserve banking" turned into "reverse banking," or something like that.

Then there was the magic money, the derivatives, which were really
debt turned into money and they hid the bad part on the penny stock
market which was not SEC regulated.

That is the giant iceberg headed for USS America right now.

And like the Titanic, this baby is going to the bottom.

Google up "Quadrillion dollar powder keg"

Makes sure you don't do it right before you need to sleep.

LOL

Good Luck to you all !

[edit on 6-8-2009 by Ex_MislTech]



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by johnny2127
 


Hmm .. do you understand how a corporation even works?

Do I believe the FED is part of the Government? No, not per se.. It is a mixture of Private and Government.

The Government holds it's charter, and the ability to revoke it.. as well as choosing the head of the FED.

It is made up of Member Banks .. the Member Banks hold "non-transferable shares" in the Federal Reserve .. basically the Member Banks are paid this 6% dividend, which is expected as the Federal Reserve is private.

The Governors which represent the Federal Reserve and the 12 district Reserves are chosen by the President.

Basically .. you still fail to see how the system works.

(EDIT to add .. because I know you don't understand any of this .. that the Non-Transferable shares are owned by Banks .. and cannot be sold, traded, or otherwise altered. They are not owned by individuals. The share holders of the banks themselves ultimately are the directors of the Reserve, or, I should say, have the most influence over the Reserves actions.)

[edit on 8/5/2009 by Rockpuck]


Sorry I have been away, so I have not been able to respond to your inaccuracies until now.

Yes I know how a corporation works, I am a business owner. Do you know?

So you know, the shareholders are not owned by the Federal Reserve regional or district banks. Some of the stock is owned and held by the Federal Reserve banks. But most of it is held by individuals or corporations. Did you even read the Federal Reserve Act that I posted? It seems not. So let me post a few things for you:



SECTION 25a:
The fact that the certificate is made to enable the persons subscribing the same, and all other persons, firms, companies, and corporations, who or which may thereafter subscribe to or purchase shares of the capital stock of such corporation





SECTION 2:
Such stock shall be known as public stock and may or may not be transferred on the books of the Federal reserve bank by the chairman of the board of directors of such bank.





SECTION 28:
(b) Shareholder distributions authorized. As part of its capital reduction plan approved in accordance with subsection (a), and with the affirmative vote of shareholders owning at least two thirds of the shares of each class of its stock outstanding (each voting as a class), a national banking association may distribute cash or other assets to its shareholders.


So from I have shown you here, you can see that stockholders in the Federal Reserve can be, persons, corporations, trusts, etc. You can see that the shares can be held by the bank, or can be held by the individual or corporation that bought them.

So while I know you really want to believe that the Federal Reserve is just this govt agency that has purely the best interest of Americans at heart, sadly that is not completely the case. As stated by the Federal Reserve, they have both Public and Private interests. Shareholders, which I have now shown you many of which are persons and corporations outside the Federal Reserve, are entitled by law to a 6% dividend. So far everything you have said about the Federal Reserve has turned out to be wrong, and sadly most people think the things you do. Its all right there hiding out in the open.



[edit on 10-8-2009 by johnny2127]



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