Birthers release forged Kenyan birth certificate for Obama

I'm going to take a page out of birther logic and put the burden of proof on the defendant, and not the accuser.

So, you produce financial documents showing Taitz, WND, Berg, etc. haven't gotten obscenely rich for playing off of people's ignorance and I'll believe you...once a court verifies that they haven't been laundering money somewhere, an IRS agent personally verifies their financials, and they have their tax information printed from the IRS and posted to the web.

Until then, the WND birth certificate highway billboards, the ad campaign against Obama, the increased traffic to the WND site, the media exposure Taitz and Berg has received from this whole circus, and the donations and product revenue WND receives from "concerned" citizens is proof enough to me that the ignorant are getting scammed.

Are you starting to see why the birth conspiracy logic is so ridiculous and why hearsay does not make a case? Or perhaps why courts require plaintiffs to prove their case before demanding defendants prove their innocence?

The board notes that the anti-birthers are so desperate they are reduced to attacking the lawyers over their prior occupations.

No offense, Hunka, but the best way to put this to rest is to stop creating threads that talk about it. I know your intent is to put this to rest, but this just keeps the fire going. Let it burn out for lack of fuel.

reply to post by Maxmars

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My thoughts exactly!

Star for you!

This one is fake because we say it is fake is what it comes down to.

reply to post by Avenginggecko

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I happen to know from personal experience that the accuser has no burden of proof and has unlimited resources available to accuse anyone of anything at any time without cause. The viability of the accusation is in the eyes of the issuing court and the burden of proof lies squarely on the accused. Crazy huh? That's how the law really works.

But, but the guy on the other BC thread said this was a FREEPER fraud.

You guys really need to get your talking points straight.

reply to post by HunkaHunka

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I am not sure I would attribute this to "Sore losers" Former Pres. Bush got far more criticism for far greater things than a forged birth cert. I think most ATSers could agree that there really are no political parties anyway It is more of an attack on the public face of a hidden group of bad people. Personally I think that a group of people should be constantly trying to rebuke their leader....If the leader is worthy he will be forced to mold to the people, not the other way around.

Unfortunately, the message board will not let me give you more than one star.




You know, I love it when the person keeping me out of jail, performing surgery in my mouth or selling my house tells me that what they do is really just a hobby. Who would want to hire someone who would be specialized and knowledgeable in either of those fields?

Unless of course she's on par with people like Leonardo DaVinci. Who knows, maybe she really is a Renaissance Woman.

Also, haven't the Birthers pretty much run the gamut of attacking the credibility of every government and hospital worker who has validated Obama's place of birth? Haven't they done so for the sole reason that these individuals don't support their version of reality?

I'm personally still waiting for someone to debunk the newspaper announcements that were posted the week of Obama's birth. You know, the ones that the State Health Department requested to be printed?

reply to post by suicydking

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It has been pointed out (correctly or erroneously) that the newspaper announcements may have been placed by the grandparents. Announcements are not proof of place of birth.

All of the gullible blither's are over at flyersfan's thread patting themselves on their delusional backs for discovering their smoking gun.

Silly people will believe anything except the truth.

Hate much grover? The vast majority of members (silly or not) posting on the Original Thread are diligently seeking to investigate the alleged document. The only silliness is on these copycat threads. LOL

reply to post by grover

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Funny, because Salon was one upped by WND

Link


In fact, every single point that Salon made was touched on by WND 30 minutes after Salon posted the story.



[edit on 8/3/2009 by Lemon.Fresh]

So I have seen this word used elsewhere, just looking for some clarification..

What is a Freeper?

I had some real concerns about what would happen to Obama during the election. there was lots of crazy talk going on. My concerns fell back for a time but now they are back again, These birthers will just give some hard core nut case all the fodder they need for tragic actions.

reply to post by Animal

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Those flaws have been rebutted to the point of ATS taking the original thread back out of HOAX and adding an update to the thread of the Kenyan BC saying the case is still wide open.

Just because Salon points out these same points of interest (I wouldn't call it undeniable evidence) doesn't mean the thing is a certain forgery.
From what I gathered in that 50+ page thread, the OP's title doesn't insinuate 100% certainty, and ATS has decided that it's still undecided.

As for the race card, people are so wrong in generalizing the 'birthers' into one convenient box, and in doing so are being scammed just as hard as some of the 'birthers' themselves.

To an unbiased observer who couldn't care less about who fills that puppet position, there's simply a spectrum of people: anywhere from ignorant Obama fans who project him as the expected Messiah, to ignorant hateful racists who project him as an infiltrator that came to create an Islamic US of A with legalized white slavery.
There are relatively little people at either extreme, so the name calling is totally unfounded, and extremely distracting.

[edit on 3-8-2009 by Psynarchist]

[edit on 3-8-2009 by Psynarchist]

I'm pretty sure that you're only begging the question here with circular logic. As far as I know, the situation happened in the opposite order that you describe. The assertion that the announcement was placed by family came first, and was refuted when it was discovered that those newspapers only placed announcements when instructed to by the State Health Department.

This isn't a copy-cat thread. The other thread says "Obama's Kenya BC FOUND!" This one is "Birthers release forged Kenyan BC" released at least 24 hours later and completely contradictory to the WND source of the other thread. No disrespect to flyersfan.

Someone who belongs to freerepublic.com

Much like we would be classified as ATSers.

Only they are much more aligned with each other. There is a lot less room for debate on freerepublic than here...

[edit on 3-8-2009 by HunkaHunka]

reply to post by HunkaHunka

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That's simply not true. The thread is called:
Photo - Obama's Kenyan Birth Certificate (UPDATED)

Not once did the title of that thread insinuate certainty of authenticity, in stark contrast with this one.

Isn't that like saying the Washington Times was upped by Marvel Comics? Salon deals in facts. WND is toilet paper.