Immigrants 'denied citizenship for demonstrating against British troops'

reply to post by Freeborn


I know what your saying there Freeborn, but that doesn't answer the question. The plan is that foreigners will have to work for 10 years in the UK before becoming eligible for citizenship. Some are desireable and some not. Do i have to pay for additional monitoring of all these people for 10 years?

Majority of the reasons for having points removed are easy to monitor - Can you speak English? Do you have any desireable skills? Have you commited a crime?

But monitoring for protesting against things that we don't want them to protest against is impossible to police without constant surveillance, or without also monitoring the general population to determine the citizens from non-citizens.

The more and more i think into this, the more i see that this is one use for their beloved ID cards.

reply to post by Nammu


I see your point.
More beaurocracy and red tape.
More expense for the taxpayer.

Another government agency whose employees are reliant upon the government's good will for their employment.

I know the Australians operate a points system and it seems to work very well, how does it compare to our proposed points system?

[edit on 4/8/09 by Freeborn]

reply to post by Freeborn


Sorry buddy, but it simply does not work in Australia. There are way too many foreigners in Australia, and in Sydney, its swamped by Asians and Indians, you'd be lucky to spot an aussie in certain suburbs, and the university's are full of foreigners including lecturers and tutors, which is bringing down the standard of teaching.

If you want the best immigration policy, look at )apans. That is the only one that will work.

reply to post by fapython



My understanding was that Australia had a strict, points based immigration policy that only allowed those that have something positive to offer Australia, predominantly a trade skill or professional qualification.

I do seem to recall recent instances of trouble at sporting events between Ozzies of relatively long standing heritage and Serb immigrants.
I may not have got the details exactly right.

Maybe Australian immigration policy has changed over the years but it is still notoriously one of the hardest countries to gain citizenship of or long term work permit for.

Surely the answer is to have a very stringent policy of admittance and issuing of work permits prior to the 10 years qualification.
That should cancel the need for wholescale monitoring.
Any transgressors would be treat through the legal system etc.

But it is time that we, the British people determined what immigration policy we want instead of accepting weak, liberal, pc driven policies that do nothing for British society except allow in every scrounging, hate filled, terrorist supporting scumbag under the sun whose only aim is to change every aspect of British society and culture.

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by fapython

 

My understanding was that Australia had a strict, points based immigration policy that only allowed those that have something positive to offer Australia, predominantly a trade skill or professional qualification.

I do seem to recall recent instances of trouble at sporting events between Ozzies of relatively long standing heritage and Serb immigrants.
I may not have got the details exactly right.

Maybe Australian immigration policy has changed over the years but it is still notoriously one of the hardest countries to gain citizenship of or long term work permit for.

Australia is very strict on the “point’s” migration, but people think that’s they only way to come here, it’s not.

The “point’s” system is only for Skilled Migrant Visas. That’s all the points system is for.

There are many other permanent visas you can get to Australia, like:

Family Migration Visa
Humanitarian Visa
Special Eligibility Visa
NZ Citizen Visa

etc etc

On these Visas last year there were over 149 thousand that arrived to Australia to settle.

Then there are the non-permanent Visa, which once here can lead to Permanent residency, such as:

Employment sponsor 457 Visa
Working Holiday Visas
Student Visa
Etc etc,

On these type of Visas there were over 430 thousand that arrived last year.

So yes we have a strict “points” visa, but that’s only one of the visas out of many to choose from.

Oh and getting citizenship is easy, once you have permanent residency you only need to live here for 4 years (changed recently). I only had to live here for 2 years before I got citizenship and the passport.

Now they give you a citizenship test, but help is available in your own language if English is hard for you, lol... it’s ridiculous considering you are supposed to be able to have a good command of English to apply for citizenship.

Mikey



[edit on 4/8/2009 by Mikey84]

Originally posted by fapython
First and foremost, you should NEVER protest against the troops, they are )ust men and women who are doing their )obs, they don't decide what countries to invade"Liberate". If they disobey orders they go to gaol. If anything they should get our sympathies, they have to go to that hell hole and fight people who want to completely decimate them. They are forced to go in there without a clear strategy, proper or sufficient equipment, numbers etc and suppose to do a good )ob. They are getting slaughtered because of our pathetic government. SO if you want to PROTEST against the war, don't protest against our troops, BUT protest against the Government.


Secondly, Britain has never needed immigrants, we were never asked if we wanted immigrants but we were forced to take them. We are now approaching boiling point with room running out, when are they going to realise soon we wont be able to take anymore. They aren't adopting British culture, but retaining their own(Erosion of British Culture), we have a declining indeginous population, but does the government address that issue ? no, they take the short term fix and increase immigration. Their birthrates completely outnumber ours and yet the amount of immigrants coming in is ever increasing ? have the once Great british people gone mad ? Within 50 40 years the indiginous (White) Britain will be a minority in our own homeland. What then ? goodgame Britain.

We are told there is "strength through diversity" but is that really the case. The 2 emerging super powers [(China/India) both declared they are not immigration countries] put out slogans such as "Strength through unity", they are pretty much ethnic indians and ethnic chineese filling there county, so obviously that is something we should look at.


In my honest opinion there are people that rule this world behind the scenes who have ruled for millenia, and when a group of people go against them, they destroy that people. NOT necessarily by military means, but through immigration and destroying of the race. Look for example at Babylon,Egypt,Persia,Greece,Rome and now Western Civilisation (European countries + USA,CAN,AUS,NZ) mass immigration, like the past;our governments though are completely spineless and won't do anything to stop it. History has shown that civilisations that take mass foreign immigration into it, CANNOT survive. It also doesnt matter to these people how long it will take as they have all the time in the world.

My message is this. WAKE UP Europe and the West and realise what is happening to our People, and our Great Nations and reverse this great wrong perpetuated against our people. The time for change is now!!!

I agree and that's interesting.. China and India are already a multiculti mess in many cases, look at China, the parts which they occupied and the minorities there are rebelling against the central party[while i dont blame them for they're being occupied].But also India with its muslim minorities and their terrorists attacks...They dont want any new minorities and so should we in Europe, especially muslim immigrants..[just my humble opinion]..
And yes especially in these though times we dont need immigrants for labour we should do it ourselves, whether the East Europeans live or work here or work and live there, the money gets wired to their home country anyway..You're totally right about the breeding and the immigration simultaneously.
We used to have immigrants in the 16th and 18th century mostly Huguenots and Jews and they really contributed to the trade and wealth of the Dutch republic, what happened with the North african immigrants since the sixties last century was really a big mistake, the reason?: religion [Islam] and culture clashing with ours..Totally different then the Protestant Huguenots and Jews

Can you tell us, what are Japanese rules concerning immigration laws?

[edit on 4-8-2009 by Foppezao]

reply to post by Mikey84


Wow, if i'd known that I would have moved there years ago, but....knowing that i'd just be swapping one declining country for another by the sound of things!

reply to post by ZenOnKwalsky


I really don't care mate, sort your own country out, ours is in too much of a mess to carry this ammount of immigrants. My experiences have been mixed with Polish people, yes some are very well educated Anglophiles who contribute to society, but alot are nothing more than rude thugs, undercutting the British worker who i wold happily see removed from this country today.

I've just been thinking. With the EU Human Rights laws, would it even be possible to penalise someone for protesting, if they're acting within the law, no matter what the subject of the protest is?

I'm not sure you could.

And this found this delightful story:

Even as the opposition and the critics blamed the newly-appointed Home Secretary for being completely unworried on Labour’s widely criticised border policy, Mr Johnson made clear the Government’s commitment to even higher levels of immigration in an interview on BBC1’s Andrew Marr show.

Sir Andrew Green of the population think tank Migrationwatch said the home office had itself admitted reduction in immigration by eight per cent last year, when the requirement was a 75 per cent reduction to keep the population below 70million mark.

Source

So which one is it then Mr Johnson? More immigrants you say! Yeah that'll help the country won't it.

More, less, less, more. Doublespeak all round!

I think they're chat about reducing immigration is all just a ploy to claw votes back from the BNP!

reply to post by Nammu


Something about it all just doesn't ring true.

We have a political party in power that is as unscrupulous as any I have known or read about, (well maybe not quite as bad as Thatcher but there's another arguement), who are a lame duck just waiting to be thrown out.

Yet there is a clear vote winner there available.
Significant reduction in immigration levels and review the eligibility of some existing immigrants.

Any major party included this in their manifesto then they would be guaranteed to be elected next year.

But none of them will.
Why not?

It certainly isn't on any moral grounds, they lost the claim to that a long, long time ago.

So what is stopping them?
Is something, or someone, preventing them from doing so?

In which case, just who does pull the strings in this country and Union of ours??

[edit on 4/8/09 by Freeborn]

Originally posted by fapython
If you want the best immigration policy, look at )apans. That is the only one that will work.

I agree - having been there a few times, it certainly appears to be better than most in terms of immigration, though recently, there were definitely a great deal more Western faces as well as Indian and African individuals since I was there last.

The only issue, some would argue, is that it's almost an instiutionalised form of racism against anyone who isn't Japanese.

I'm not judging that - it's most likely down to the 'closed country' policy that was introduced in the early 1600s. It had a huge impact on how the Japanese 'see' themselves and in turn, how they see foreigners.

And that had a huge impact on immigration up to and including today.

But imagine if any other country try to impliment the same levels of scrutiny -- they'd be condemned by the UN and other human rights groups.

Originally posted by noonebutme

Originally posted by fapython
If you want the best immigration policy, look at )apans. That is the only one that will work.

I'm not judging that - it's most likely down to the 'closed country' policy that was introduced in the early 1600s. It had a huge impact on how the Japanese 'see' themselves and in turn, how they see foreigners.

And that had a huge impact on immigration up to and including today.

But imagine if any other country try to impliment the same levels of scrutiny -- they'd be condemned by the UN and other human rights groups.

And the funny thing was, the only foreigners allowed on their land [Deshima/Nagasaki] were the Dutch. Because we were the only ones respecting their traditions and religions [even helped the Shogun fight the Japanese Catholics]..In return for some trade of course ..

[edit on 4-8-2009 by Foppezao]

Originally posted by Nammu
reply to post by Freeborn

 

I know what your saying there Freeborn, but that doesn't answer the question. The plan is that foreigners will have to work for 10 years in the UK before becoming eligible for citizenship. Some are desireable and some not. Do i have to pay for additional monitoring of all these people for 10 years?

Majority of the reasons for having points removed are easy to monitor - Can you speak English? Do you have any desireable skills? Have you commited a crime?

But monitoring for protesting against things that we don't want them to protest against is impossible to police without constant surveillance, or without also monitoring the general population to determine the citizens from non-citizens.

The more and more i think into this, the more i see that this is one use for their beloved ID cards.

I realize this is a predominantly UK discussion but I would like to add, hope you don't mind.

If these immigrants are required to work for ten years before obtaining a citizenship they will not be receiving hand outs during this time and that will save alot of taxpayer money and a portion of those savings can go into security. More and more immigrants into Canada are taking advantage of our poor security and exploiting the system. we have a large number of able bodied people on the "dole"and it is disturbing to us hard working tax payers. IMHO immigration needs to be deterred until some kind of viable solution is found. People fleeing their homelands because of war and persecution are turning our Homelands into replicas of theirs slowly but surely. The most glaring example is the use of Sharia courts in the UK , that needs to stop asap. They will continue to grow their base and slowly turn the UK and any other country that allows them to into war torn, fanatically (negatively) religious places.

No one should be protesting against UK soldiers at all!
If anyone should be protested against, it should be the soldiers employers,the government!
After all,these troops are only carrying out the will of their masters and doing their jobs,just the same as any of us !

reply to post by Nammu

I think thats not so well organised. I mean there is several agendas of the diffrent organisations, secret services etc, which not even colide, but simply are still not 100% synchronised- no need, at least no need for a moment given. But be sure They know all that they need to know.
Maybe even its better to create some "camouflage ", an illusion of chaos for their hidden activities
in the muddy water their "fishes" cannot see the hook...

reply to post by Nammu


Somehow this makes perfect sense to me...If I immigrated to another country it would be many many years before I would think that its appropriate to criticize the policies of the country to which I just moved.

Many many years, indeed.

reply to post by solidshot


Well, fair is fair, that's kind of what your country did to us two hundred years ago

Let's see how you cheese-eaters like it!

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
reply to post by ZenOnKwalsky

 

I really don't care mate, sort your own country out, ours is in too much of a mess to carry this ammount of immigrants. My experiences have been mixed with Polish people, yes some are very well educated Anglophiles who contribute to society, but alot are nothing more than rude thugs, undercutting the British worker who i wold happily see removed from this country today.

Statistics buddy! Once more Im not in Britain, and if I will come one day I will try to create my own work and give employment to the peoples, not regarding their origin, more their professional experience, education, character... Nice dream...
Anyway STATISTICS: since we are in one, the same Europe there is a lot of over weekend heavy drinkers "tourists" from Your island terrorising some nice historic,tuouristic cities like Cracow... I know very well that its only a small, not really representative part of your populace but anyway they are really the most visible, and for the most of the locals, the bar clients they are the homonym of the" Brits" for the many. On the beginning I have been told it was seen as good by the pub owners, but now they are plague-a kind of degenerated Normans starting brawls, running naked around the Cracow market place and throwing their pants on the lampposts...in general scaring of the normal family style clients...Anyway it cannot be reason to introduce some "Anti Brits Low"

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Sorry Fox, that's gone flying over my head.

And what have the Dutch got to do with anything?

reply to post by ZenOnKwalsky


Hey, I've been to Krakow..it was ok but I must say the locals were the most unfriendly I have ever experienced in any eastern european city, and I've been to a few.
There was a definate anti-Brit feel to it and if I wasn't so widely travelled could easily have fallen for a couple of police backed set up's.

And what do you expect when it is advertised as a party city with cheap drink?
Is it any wonder people get pissy arsed drunk?

Bit like the Poles who seem to infest nearly every town on their one day off by being annoyingly drunk, perving over local women with complete disregard for their partners and being a general nuisance in every pub they visit.
The odd one or two are ok in drink, but not very many.
How do I know....because I've had to deal with countless numbers of them who have visited my pubs, I have asked plenty to leave, have forcibly ejected quite a few and once gave one of them a good flogging as he tried to glass a female customer because she refused his groping advances.

I allow anyone in my pubs and give everyone a chance, within reason...but I will no longer serve Poles.

People in glass houses my friend.