Originally posted by KaginD
Thanks for the informative thread Q. I really enjoyed reading through the entire thread. IMO this is VERY bad news. I just started buying silver 2 weeks ago, I'm just hoping I made the right decision. I know paper money isn't going to be worth squat soon, obviously. S&F. Nice job

Good...I have a question for you.

Have you physically taken possession of the silver? Or do you just have certificates and records that you own silver?

I got into an arguement with a friend a ways back trying to make him understand that unless you have silver coins or ingots in a safe in your house...you havent been buying silver...or gold...or any other precious metal unless you physically have it in your possession.

people are always ready to proclaim the end of the bond bull market .....but there is so much b.s going on to keep rates low ...i.e big silent monetization by the fed that it will continue on....and GROW...the fed will buy all the darn debt up.....and the banks will keep adding to excess reserves since they get paid to......and everyone will be "befuddled"........rates don't scream higher yet.....and inflation doesn't soar crazily either.....must tick those off that are unhappy with the system and channel this unhappiness into the investors that are always eager to cry wolf on the bond and inflation fronts.

and i agree the b.s and shadiness of the system is abysmal but the new system we get when this one craps out will not bring us a higher standard of living

better off to drink all day ....pop med's like crazy.....err.... well i guess ......go to the ticker forum to vent isn't that bad....or just varying degress of painkilling willful ignorance mixed in with some reality shows or sports events or better yet a time to get close with friends and family....i am having less desire to look down on sheep these days.........the corruption runs soo deep......i have a growing sense that humanity has been thru this before in some way .........the twilight of a empire.......actually many "western or advanced empire's" and i think the path of least resistance will be a global system of have's and have not's ......with the latter being the majority...sort of like a global feudal system.........and this will probably not bring out the best in humans....instead of waiting for the empire to crumble.....make contingency plans if you can.....and enjoy it while it lasts

Originally posted by KSPigpen
Now, to the uninformed, fearful perspective. (mine)

Mine too, Pigpen. I try to be informed, but I can't always be the most informed, and as for fearful, don't get me started.

It is so hard to know what to believe where the economy is concerned. As one that doesn't really have any money anyway, investments, gold, silver, they are all interesting discussions, but aside from the impact on the price of a loaf of bread, it's hard to see how they impact me.

Exactly, and that's the problem. The rich have the money to make those investments and therefore are not affected. They therefore, cannot understand the plight of the poor, who live paycheck to paycheck with bills and debt piling up. No health insurance, no gym membership, the cheapest, low grade foods, the worst life has to offer. They have no way out.

But the rich don't care about this because it can't be solved under their plans, which only serve to continue the downfall of America and stuff their pockets with rolls of cash.

The sad part is, some of the poor people think "oh, fine then, I will be a democrat and things will be great."

But they won't; the rich cannot be relied upon so heavily to pay for the poor's needs, and even if they all could and agreed to do so, it would only be for a short period of time.

The problem is, our entire financial system is a massive fruadulent pile of dogscat. Our Government too.

Until we correct and destroy the unbridled corruption, no plan will stop this country from bleeding to death, and we've been bleeding for over a decade now.

I understand that the US is in a BOATLOAD of debt. As far as I know, it's been that way for a long, long time. The government keeps spending, on things like war and weapons, and we keep amassing an amount of debt that is a number that before not so long ago, was not even a practical number, where money is concerned. It doesn't take an economist (thank God, cuz I suck) to realize that we are in a poop of a lot of trouble.

If we stopped spending on war constantly and weren't fighting two and counting now, we could afford to fix our roads and bridges, feed hungry, starving children, at home and abroad, we could afford vital medicines to the poor, we could do alot. But we don't Because we're America.

We are the war machine. And that's all we've ever known how to do. The rest of the world is getting sick of it, and I can't imagine the piss that will be running down our collective pants-leg when we hear WWIII declared and Russia and China and Europe pretty much as a whole all stand together. All of our piddly bullets won't mean jack then.

It seems to me like there have always been other governments willing to buy our debt, because we were thought to be good for it. Now it seems, by way of your report, that it isn't the case any more.

The World wised up to our shenanigans.

My first problem: There are those on here that tell us everything is fine and that historically, we HAVE to see an improvement, because that's what history tells us. I struggle with that because never in history have we had such a huge debt as a nation, so how could historical precedents apply? I'm told in a nutshell that if I don't think the economy is going to improve, that I'm an idiot. I'm told that things like unemployment, foreclosures, inflation, those are all things that FOLLOW swings in the market, and that the market has improved, or slowed it's decline, so everything else should be getting better too.

You're told by who? Exactly.

You're smart enough to know and seek the truth. So continue. Don't let them drag you down to their level, that's right where they want you to be. Don't let them ever pull the wool back over your eyes, now that you have pulled it off. You see through them.

That's the problem you are having, KSPigpen.

You see through their rhetoric and lies and you know the truth: unemployment, foreclosures, inflation, the falling possibly dying dollar, our national debt, the total lack of solution for peak oil and all the implications that follow, the global climate change, it all really does matter. It's not getting better anytime soon. (continued in next post due to character limit restrictions.)

We have our president and his cronies telling us things are looking better. We have others telling us that they can't find a job. They can't afford their mortgage, or rent, or utilities, let alone payments on THEIR debts. Whether or not they should BE in debt is not the issue, to me. Though it is very important and in my opinion our NATIONAL economy, represented millions of times in these defaults, it is hard to accept that the lifestyle encouraged in this nation for many, many years, was to accumulate debt.

It's just like what President Bush did, during his last 6 months in office, he simply denied constantly that there is a problem.

Just think of it this way, once, during Bush's second term, the economy began it's collapse, the media and governments went into OVERDRIVE saying "everything is fine."

Doesn't that set off your Spidey sense? It did mine. So I checked into it. And all the economists at the time when Bush and his cronies said "everything's fine" were saying "no, everything is not fine, in fact we are headed for a terrible future."

And over time, things progressed.

And before it was over, we were in this, what is feebly refered to by the media as a recession.

This is actually The Second Great Depression. History will prove my words. You unfortunately are wrong, it definately was and remains our lifestyle to accumulate debt. We are a country that doesn't understand the value of our own dollar.

Edit: Another thing I wanted to add here is that, what if the President just got on TV and said: "Okay. We're totally ****ed. There. The truth. Happy?"

THEN where would the economy be? You can definately expect that a President will NEVER say their country is totally ruined and their money is worthless and they can't pay off their trillions in debt. It would be literally the suicide of America as a country if that were ever to happen. Pray it never does.

So now, here we are. A small percentage of our population positioned to ride out what could be a complete disaster, and the vast majority of everyone else, set to wait in soup lines for a meal.

I guess I used my Second Great Depression line a paragraph too soon, but you're right about the soup and bread lines. What you're wrong about is the small percentage of the population.

Without the worker ants, everything grinds to an immediate halt. Who will pick the cotton for the shirts of the rich? Who will slaughter and butcher the animals for the gourmet to cook so lovingly?

Eventually, their money is only paper, which they can put to good use once the Charmin factory has no more workers to process the trees they don't have since they can't pay anymore lumberjacks. If you destroy the legs on a barstool, don't be surprised when you're sitting on the ground.

My second problem: Again, I appreciate your effort in bringing this to our consciousness. What are our options? What are we supposed to do? Do you have any recommendations for those of us that don't have a large nest egg? What should we be doing, just to be sure we are as safe as we can be for our family?

I would highly reccommend you check out the Survival section of this website (AboveTopSecret.com) It's packed to the brim with helpful information.

I know it won't be long and there will be some people chiming in that are convinced that this is nothing to worry about. I prefer to be prepared for the worst, but hope for the best. Hope does not feed my children. Hope does not keep a roof over my head. If I had a couple grand in the bank, what should I be doing with it? Will it be worth half of what t is in a few months? What are your gut feelings about what the average person, or someone on here should be doing?

Do whatever you can afford that makes you happy, soon the pursuit of happiness will be a luxury we don't have. As for your family, Survival forum. Again, these guys know their stuff and have thought about many angles. Great place to pick brains and ask questions.

I hate being ignorant, but the volume of information required for me to make an informed decision is staggering and disheartening. I don't KNOW economics, which is probably why I'm in the boat that I am, but I think I'm a fairly good person and I don't want my children to suffer. What is the line between paranoia and preparation on this one?

The line will always be blurred. The question is, how much do you love your family? If you love them alot, be prepared. Do your best for them. Unfortunately, my advice falters alot in this regards because I am in the same boat. I have alot of debt, absolutely no money, and I am not sure what I will do in the very near future. But there is always hope. It doesn't feed the children, but it feeds the heart and spirit plenty. I will be thinking of you and hoping for the best for you.

[edit on 3-8-2009 by BaronVonGodzilla]