The SHTF Turning Point Quietly Happened, Last Week – Have you been Paying Attention?

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posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 06:05 AM
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reply to post by Matyas
 


OH, oil is the reason we are in wars - oil is the root of everything in power positions and money.

BUT - that site - does not IMO discuss what is going on with the Economy and the falling of the dollar at this time.

BUT - when the dollar is disconnected from Oil - that is when the REAL death comes for the dollar.

Headlines on page:


Things Fall Apart: Complexity, Supply Chains, Infrastructure & Collapse

IEA Economist Warns about World Oil Supply

ASPO-USA Peak Oil Conference in Denver October 10-13; Get discounted rates this week

Drumbeat: August 3, 2009

Drilling through Rock

Drumbeat: August 2, 2009


In other words that site is a "friend" of oil - it is about OIL!

There is my question on the link being provided as a "truth" about the economy.




posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 06:36 AM
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Dang QA...we sure could use yer insight and analysis on the "Market" thread when this dies out...

Keep us in mind...


Fed Plans to Strengthen Bank Examinations With Expert Teams, Tarullo Says
www.bloomberg.com...



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 06:58 AM
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We'll at least this isn't going to cause a earthquake.

I for one, welcome our new non China overloards.



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 08:07 AM
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I have been reading all the posts and even though I don't agree with all the OP's opinion, this thread is far from fear mongering or misleading. And the OP has copped alot of criticism for what seems to be obviously worrying signs in the market.

China's not showing up at the auction is a sign that the US is on the verge of breaking the threasholds of the rest of the world.
Granted, the world needs the US and the dollar to be healthy as ALL USA debt is held in the dollar. Add to this the massive volume of investment from foreign nations in the US, and the US is kind of insured insured by the world and its banks having to prop the US up by buying debt. Unlike Argentina in 2001 who was left to implode by the IMF and the global community. Japan a well.

That tolerance seems to be at a tipping point and has been eluded to in the MSM for a while. I remember reading some interesting signs-
www.marketwatch.com...

Li Lianzhong, who is head of economics at the party's policy research office, said the U.S. dollar is poised for a fall, making gold and land better investments for China's $1.95 trillion in foreign exchange reserves, the report said.


So those, including the OP, who seem to think there is little out there in the MSM on this are mistaken or have not seen the likes of these stories indicating that China would seek alternatives to Treasuries. This supports though the OP's worry regarding these events.

The US Fiscal Deficit is projected at over 12%, short term external debts are over 100% of GDP, a GDP in decline.

So you have run away fiscal deficits, a recession in GDP and now countries considering other options instead of buying into it.

Every, I repeat every currency and debt crisis all have one thing in common- an out of control fiscal deficit.

What is different from other crisis in the past is the ratio of debt held by the USA on a per citizen basis(almost 200k per person) is not going to be paid by those citizens trying to work it off via increased taxes, Greenspan and Warren Buffett have elude to inflation and a debasing of the currency as being more deterimental to those holding Bonds and fixed assets but something that needs to be considered as a worry in the future. WHY, here is why-

The FED IMHO is running its chances on an inflatonary surge as opposed to a Deflation in currency(like Japan's crisis).
The massive TARP and Stimulus packages are proof of this. This debt is bound for the international markets.
As countries opt out of the market(See China and the OP's links, opinions and thoughts) the FED will be forced to print more money to pick up the Debt. Inflation will result. So some countries(like China) are faced with a dilema, do you pass on the market only to see the debt you hold devalued by infaltion as the US picks up its own Debt by printing money.

Am I close OP.
This means, as some people point out, that if you have savings, stocks and bonds etc in US$ , you might want to get out and diversify into other markets and currency.

Good thread OP S&F. I know I got here late, but your efforts are appreciated and I am dissapointed that others here seem to think that they are based on imaginings or untruths.

Edit to add I was 100 on the star count in the OP....hehe.

[edit on 4-8-2009 by atlasastro]



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 09:27 AM
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reply to post by ZindoDoone
 


For some reason this bothers me. Perhaps it is association. Generally anyone the John Birch Society declares a public enemy I tend to favor as an automatic reflex to their ideaology.

TBH, I don't know much about George Soros, and even less about the Illumaniti. I have never seen any proof of their existence, and attribute the current vogue to Robert Anton Wilson's literary invention. Perhaps they exist, but I think a reality where no one is at the Helm is both far more likely and far more frightening.

My wife tells me if it were not for him we would not be together. I have to agree because it is true. If this be the only good thing he ever did then he has ruined his chances of attainment to the title of Prince of Hell and Angel of the Bottomless Pit. So maybe he is not so totally evil.



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 09:27 AM
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reply to post by mckyle
 





As I said in an earlier post, there is a lot to take in regarding this crisis, and can't be simply summarised by posting a couple of articles on a board. If you have any queries feel free to PM me and I'll be happy to send you some other articles.


Thank you for the information. Looks like I have a lot of reading ahead of me. After I read it I will PM if I need more help.

I understand how complex an issue can be in researching the changes the USDA and FDA want to make in regulating farming. As you said it is very difficult to simply summarize a complex subject by posting a couple of articles. Unfortunately most people are not interested in anything but a short article and when it comes to farming they are not interested in all. Corporations have taken advantage of this apathy to manipulate public opinion so the current monopsony will end up a monopoly by the food cartels.

The organic and local food movements have kept the monopsony from having a complete stranglehold on food prices and therefore acted as a brake to price gouging. The changes in US law during the last few decades and the food bill that just passed the house will see the end of any true competition in farming. Independent farmers who stabilize the price of food will soon be gone and the corporations will be in complete control of the food supply.

One bill HR875 was written so it even regulated home gardens and home canning. I can not think the corporations will back off too long on that too. The interstate commerce clause originated from a Supreme Court decision stating wheat grown for home use effects interstate commerce and therefore subject to regulation by the USDA gives them a perfect wedge. If I recall correctly the current bill authorizes the Food Czar to make changes as he sees fit "to protect food safety" The FDA had already written 600 pages on "food safety from farm to table" after the World Trade Organization Agreement on Ag was ratified (1995) so the regs are waiting to be implemented. The food police raiding your home and inspecting your fridge and bath cabinets is a truly chilling thought. A USDA official did it to a friend so it is NOT a far out fantasy.

Yes I do go O/T onto farming but I figure better O/T than corporate organized famine. If the price of food takes a larger and larger chunk out of the average family paycheck it will effect the economy more than inflation will because there will be no correction to the loss in discretionary income.



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 10:42 AM
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More explaining on the real problem with the sell of the US debt call The treasury debt instruments.

Many People doesn't understand how important is for the government to be able to work, pay bills and support programs in the nation.

Because we are a Nation of consumers on credit and loans the government is not far behind, it also depends on the ability of selling its debt instruments to support every government program and to sustain a budget.


It is not at all clear that the Treasury will be able to sell its debt instruments in 30 months, and it has nothing to do with health-care costs
.

Yes, the problem with our deficit is growing at an alarming rate that is becoming unsustainable.

The government wants to sell us that is our health care the one leaching the economy but is not.


The Treasury debt-marketing problem has to do with two back-to-back U.S. fiscal year budgets each with a $2 trillion deficit. The size of the U.S. deficit exceeds in these troubled times the supply of world savings available to fund the U.S. government's wars, bailouts and stimulus plans.


This why selling our debt instruments is so important but when the Treasury prints money to keep supporting the nations budget The dollar lose its luster to our foreign creditors.

This why is so important for America to have those creditors at the auction block to by our debt, or the nation can not function anymore.


The size of the U.S. deficit exceeds in these troubled times the supply of world savings available to fund the U.S. government's wars, bailouts and stimulus plans. If the Federal Reserve has to monetize the Treasury's new borrowings by creating demand deposits for the Treasury (printing money), America's foreign creditors might flee the dollar.


We can not trust our media, government numbers, Wall street for signs of recovery because is all been sugar coated to avoid a panic.

Is all a deceptions.

You can not trust the home sales gains been use in the media as signs of recovery because is nothing but smokes and mirrors and this why


Here is the way Williams explains how statistics can produce false signs of recovery. The economy has been contracting for so long that a plateauing of the falloff in home sales compared to the previous time period's more rapid contraction can appear like a gain.

The Census Bureau itself notes that the reported 11 percent increase in June home sales might be illusory. The reporting agency says that the gain is not statistically meaningful at a 90 percent confidence interval and that "the Census Bureau does not have sufficient statistical evidence to conclude that the actual change is different from zero."


Investors may be lure into the false sense of hope and find themselves losing at the end of the day.

The propaganda to create a false sense that everything is rebounding is nothing but deception.


new monthly or quarterly figures are being compared to prior periods of collapsing activity. "Improvements" are thus artifacts of the prior collapse and not signs of economic rebound.


We are in a period of contraction and the government knows it and is using the data generated from this time to give false sings of recovery.

Even the unemployment data will be played with in the next few weeks.

Again is all deceptions.



The reported unemployment rate is itself deceptive, as it no longer includes discouraged workers who have been unemployed for more than a year. These long-term discouraged workers are simply erased from the rolls of the unemployed.
.

people just listen is not economic recovery yet and we are in a very dangerous and very vulnerable time in our nations history.

That is why selling those debt instruments is so crucial for the US economy recovery if the bailouts are to work, but so far is showing that bailouts are not doing what it was suppose to do.

www.economyincrisis.org...

Consumers right now are in the wave of propaganda of recovery what they save in the last months of the financial crisis is been spend because that wave so the government numbers will be exploited by deception.

Beware.



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by Matyas
 





I don't know much about George Soros, and even less about the Illumaniti. I have never seen any proof of their existence


"Belief" in the overlords, or illuminiti or what ever is certainly not needed. Facts are. For example I will use farming a subject I have studied for several years.

The IPC was created in 1987 it contained politicos and reps of the big Ag corporations. Their goal was an international treaty on food. The draft was written by a VP of Cargill as the World Trade Organization Agreement on Ag. Clinton's Advisory Committee for Trade Policy and Negotiations was led by Robert Shapiro, chairman of Monsanto at the time WTO was ratified in 1995. Marcia Hale, a former assistant to President Clinton and director for intergovernmental affairs, was director of international government affairs for Monsanto. A short history of the influence of banks and the food cartels on the international food supply can give you a feel of what people are concerned about.

There are only a small number of multi-billionaires in the world. They all know each other. There are interlocking boards of directors between major corporations and banks. A person maybe train at one corporation and then move to another. Chase bank has trained World Bank presidents for example.

Corporations and banks are in the business of making a profit. Swaying politicians to make conditions more favorable for their corporations is good business. From the point of view of the multinational corporations, national borders are a royal pain in the @$$. So why would they not cooperate to remove those borders as much as possible?



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by questioningall
 


Hi questioningall. Successful thread


Thought I would point-out that your linked article; Dollar losing clout around the world , is dated March 13, 2008.

The Indian Ministry of Tourism ruling regarding Indian heritage sites/$USD , came at a time when the USD/INR was trading at historical lows (Nov 07). That particular currency pair has reversed dramatically , recently setting record highs. India's tourist trade is suffering as a result of general economic turn-down/2008 Mubai attacks. With the USD/INR near 50 , it would be counter-productive to deny $USD. My hunch is that policy is no longer in effect.

The Manhattan antique dealer story hit the press in February 08.

During that same time frame , late 07/early 08 , we also had reports like; Supermodel Bundchen Joins Hedge Funds Dumping Dollars


No doubt that Uncle Buck is currently back on the ropes , and more negative headlines like those above , may loom just over the horizon.

[edit on 4-8-2009 by OBE1]



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to post by atlasastro
 


That is one of the reasons that China has been very quietly and no so in some instances been buying natural resources all over the world, because they have plenty of US dollars to do it.

One of the most best natural resources is farm land and China has been into that since 2008, China is doing its thing and nobody has been giving China any thoughts about the reason they are doing this..

Thanks for bringing this issue in your post.

[edit on 4-8-2009 by marg6043]

[edit on 4-8-2009 by marg6043]



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 05:23 PM
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reply to post by questioningall
 


Great post, informative, factual and scary. S+F.

I'm going to have to read this over several times not really knowing much about the subject area, thanks for bringing this to attention.



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 05:32 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


Good point.
Yes, and I would be buying up resourse too with a huge foriegn currency reserve that still has value whilst prices are low(due to demand dropping via the crisis, we are way passed peak oil cheap energy aswell).



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 

there is a place, the Land of Smart
where bond sale is a work of art


California bond sale exceeds expectations

State officials had planned to sell $4 billion in debt. Investor demand pushed the total to $6.54 billion.

articles.latimes.com...

Surely, the US Treasury will be luring the homeboys, but the money spent on long-term bonds would be missed as an investment tool in the non-government economy. You can't jump start the economy by draining the battery on covering the government spending. If the buyers from abroad frown on the dollar, you need to think real hard how to weasel out of the predicament. The usual strategy is to indirectly force nearly everyone to "buy the debt" through inflation. If you can't afford to buy something, coz the price got high due to the inflation, it means the same as if you sent some of your money to the Treasury and now you are short on cash.

marg, sit yourself in the Oval Office and start to run things the way you think would be the best, before Obama comes back from the restroom. See what happens.




posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 06:36 PM
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reply to post by stander
 


You are funny, the only reason people tend to make more sense about what is going on with the nations economy the government and foreign policies is because our government doesn't have time to think for themselves with the thousands of lobbyist that are filling every cranny and hole in congress doing the thinking for them.



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by atlasastro
 


Exactly what else can China do with all that money, it can not just seat on it and wait until it evaluates so much that is worth nothing.

Its investing in hard tangible resources to back their own currency.



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 07:25 PM
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This is a fascinating thread that I have only just gotten into. I skimmed the first part of the thread and then jumped to the end. I'll have to re-read later but I wanted to ask a general question.

When a country stops accepting another country's currency, in effect they have repegged it's value as zero. Are there any signs in terms of trade arrangements going on that indicate that other countries are still dealing in dollars but at an exchange rate that is below the officially accepted one or that they have shifted trade with the US to a "barter only" basis?

Edit:

I had a couple of other thoughts. If Japan and China are holding a mountain of worthless US paper, then their currencies are likely worthless also.

What are the hard currencies of refuge? Is there enough of those currencies to cover the amount of worthless paper? Probably not. That means a global collapse of the monetary system.

Am I getting the implications of the OP's post? There will be a massive restructuring of international financial relationships when America defaults on it's loans. A whole echelon of bankers and capitalists will be wiped out and for all intents and purposes we will enter an era of bartering in international trade.


[edit on 4-8-2009 by ipsedixit]



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 09:18 PM
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reply to post by ipsedixit
 


We are alive because we are the trading currency of the world, otherwise hyperinflation would have already started IMO.

Other countries have been holding us up, because of the amount of debt they have held, and they have continued to buy it, because of the amount they already held.

Well, again all this is my opinion only!!!

So, now the countries are sick of throwing good money after what they think is bad now.

Other countries still have their currencies, you will find that China has suppressed their currency from getting strong for many years, with as been a problem in the U.S.'s opinion.

Other countries currencies are not hurt by ours - in fact China has already made agreements with some South American countries and Asian countries to trade in the Yuan. Also South American countries that would trade between each other in U.S. dollars, have made agreements to trade between each other in their own currencies.

So, what is happening, is countries of the world are making agreements between each other to start trading in other currencies besides the dollar.

Once more agreements are worked out and countries that have held a large amount of dollars have been able to get rid of them - then you will see the complete downfall of the dollar. When this is almost completed the middle East countries will then most probably stand up and say Oil will be based on another currency other than the U.S. dollar. Some say it will be the Euro - but the Euro is also having problems at this time - so will it be the Yuan?

Last year there was talk of oil going on another currency than dollars - but the world balked - due to the dollars they were holding.

Now that the Treasury auction (short terms t-bills) fell on it's face, that might mean lots of agreements are in place, and they just have to be implemented.

So - how fast will the rest of everything come down the line, since the t-bills are now be abandoned? That is the question. Last week was the start of the dropping of the dollar - but the future is pretty much set - just how soon will it all unfold.

Again - that is my own personal take on the situation and from everything I have been reading.

Others have different opinions -



posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 11:14 PM
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Originally posted by ipsedixit
Am I getting the implications of the OP's post? There will be a massive restructuring of international financial relationships when America defaults on it's loans. A whole echelon of bankers and capitalists will be wiped out and for all intents and purposes we will enter an era of bartering in international trade.

Not really. Some other financial arrangements would kick in. For example, if a Chinese company wants to sell its product in the USA and refuses to accept USD as a form of payment, it's up to the US distributor which step it will take. It can accept the requested form of payment, the yuan, for example. That means, the US distributor will go and buy the necessary amount of yuans in the currency exchange. But if the dollar would have the standing of a roll of toilet paper against the yuan, the distributor will find the Chinese product too expensive to buy. But since the domestic demand would be very favorable for the product that the Chinese dude sells, the US distributor, or the buyer, would look for a domestic source and would buy the product made by Joe Union. So the garlic crusher for $25.99 retail would be still cheaper than the one offered by Zhung-Thi-Tiananmen.

But the Japanese wouldn't let this scenario develop. Like I see the Tiro-Haramaru cargo ship full of Mazda garlic crushers right there in Long Beach Harbor. The Japanese don't have such a problem with USD as the Chinese do. So you could buy Japanese garlic crusher for $17.95. That retail price would activate the Swedes who would try to sell their Volvo garlic crushers for less than the Japanese. Meanwhile, in the middle of all that wheeling-dealing, Julia Roberts takes a knife and minces the garlic wedges, as the script tells her to do -- and that's the end of the foreign or domestic BS garlic crushers in the USA.




[edit on 8/5/2009 by stander]



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 02:26 AM
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reply to post by questioningall
 


Thanks Op, For This Thread & Input As A Truth Agent. I have spent the last 13 years working on the' truth' about many things. I have been a Truth Agent (Publicly) for only 3-4 months now.

Yes, The Truth Is Out There, Will Just Have to SEARCH For It.

Cheers,
Chris.



posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 11:55 AM
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reply to post by Asktheanimals
 



Israel is openly trumpeting on it's war horn. They have announced they will attack Iran...to stop it's Nuclear ambitions...i.e. to secure the oil reserves for the west, that will then create a crisis with Russia and China who have heavily invested in Iran's oil infrastructure and have 100 year contracts with Iran.

Since we don't have the manpower and material to spare to keep Afghanistan under our thumb, I doubt very much, we could then send in troops to secure Iran by any measure. I don't believe the USA has the money, or the will to get into a Third World War. The current Commander in Thief, is as lilly-livered as they come, and would make the worst leader ever during a world wide crisis.

Is war coming? I believe it is, but, it isn't actively being planned for. It'll happen against our wishes and political pressures not with standing. We will be sucked into it, kicking, screaming, while dealing with massive riots here.
Americans will not be happy campers! If Israel goes ahead and attacks Iran, it could very well spell the end of America's long held support for it!

The Biblical End of Times might be just ahead. We are facing very uncertain times, and I have absolutely no faith that the lying misleading leaders in Washington, have the brains to make the right decisions for the nation. Which is becoming more and more self evident lately.

As the very misguided American government pushes to quash more and more of our civil rights, and moves to wrap it's tentacles around the throats of each of us...I really fear for us all. The whole thing is becoming so sick and twisted, it is looking like we are heading for the end of the USA as we know it.

I believe that the feds will make a move to disarm the USA, using a national crisis ( complete financial collapse ) as the impetus. My wife and I are already shocked at how fast common goods we buy every week are going up in price. We cannot adjust our budget enough to offset it. We keep tying.

The last time I went to Gander Mountain to buy more ammo...the costs were sky high, and the shelves were nearly bare. My gunsmith warned me, that I had better get all that I can, while I can, before the end of the year. So, I bought more .308 & 30.6 cal ammo...

Something very ugly is stirring in the midst's...is it the long talked about SHTF event? I suspect that it may be.

Good work every one! I am very encouraged that there are so many, who have so much on the ball. Keep up the investigations, and share that information, until they shut us down. The truth and information are real power against the bully tyrants, who call themselves our representatives.
Their hatred for us is so glaringly obvious, they will never tell us the truth.
We must unite, and dig for it ourselves, and then rub it into their lying mouths.

Until then, you know the tune...Prepare as if there is no tomorrow, for there may not be one!

Don't be complacent, or believe the flood of propaganda spewing from Wash. D.C., or national media...






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