Ancients, Structures & Mysteries - Ours or Aliens?, page 1

There's so much talk about various humanoid species living among humans on Earth? Many stories can be found here on ATS alone, not to mention the rest of the web. The magnitude of individual theorizing attributed to this subject is staggering! You have the Reptilians, Grays and other alien being type theories, as well as human/alien hybrids. If it's true every story contains some basis of truth, there would have to be something to the alternate humanoid species theory? Stories this fantastic are not likely to gain popularity among the masses, especially those absent of tangible evidence to support them? However, stories are one thing, but there are other, more tangible, bits and pieces of historical evidence found to support them that we cannot so easily dismiss?

Many artifacts, drawings, pictures and writings have been found scattered throughout many ancient civilizations. Even the Holy Bible used today contains this type of information. Accounts that describe the exact things found in these stories that our logical minds try to resist. Eventually, resisting the seemingly unimaginable becomes more and more illogical, as you continuously find support within this ancient history.

For instance, the Dogon tribe in Mali, West Africa have stories that go back thousands of years. Their legendary account of what they call the Nommos. The Nommos they say is a race of reptilian like beings that visited Earth in an Ark thousands of years ago. The Dogon claim the Nommos come from a planet that orbits a star in the Sirius system, called Sirius B today. Sirius B was discovered no earlier than 1844, yet the Dogon possess an artifact depicting it accurately that dates to 400 years ago! How could they know about this?

There are many tangible recorded events in Earths Ancient History still unexplained today. Then there's things like Stonehenge, Yonaguni, Atlantas and Ancient Mayan History. These extinct civilizations all had advanced knowledge, when compared to us, and knew things that took us years, but with even more accuracy in most cases? They lived among structures remaining today that we cannot duplicate, nor understand, while no evident technological methods are found anywhere? They have another significant thing in common to each other and that's extinction? All appear more primitive than us, yet were more advanced, all from various geographical regions, all related to stone structures, all interested in astrology, all mysterious and all gone! Not gone like the dinosaurs from some cataclysmic event? Gone mysteriously for no particular reason that we can understand?

These ancients were very alike to one another! All were similar each other, but absolutely nothing like us? We could not be more different in comparison? They are more alien to us than anything else on this planet. Dinosaurs are more like us than them? Which brings me to my point. Maybe they are alien to us because they are literally aliens? Perhaps they have come and gone from this planet for ages? It not only makes sense of all the mystery and knowledge of space, but it explains the basis of truth to the many stories going around. It would explain the Bible passages referring to giants and men of Gods.

With all that we have learned about Mars lately, isn't it possible that it's former inhabitants relocated to Earth? Isn't it possible our ancient civilizations were indeed alien to this planet? That they didn't die off, but rather relocated? Is it hard to believe these same people did in fact interbreed with humans and blended into our civilization? I'm a rational person and the last one to buy into fantastical scenarios about lizard people and the like. I'm actually very practical and need to see to believe anything, let alone this. But I am becoming less and less cynical on this subject? As I delve deeper into subjects like mind control, ritualistic ceremony, religion, disease, history and conspiracy, things I once considered ridiculous are now becoming obvious?

I see behavior carried out by what appears to be men just like me that I know, deep down, for me would be impossible? There are things happening around us that just do not fit? Just as man building the Egyptian pyramids, or anything for that matter, with that degree of accuracy doesn't fit? Unprovoked vanishing of civilizations does not fit? Dogons having detailed knowledge of a star system they cannot see doesn't fit? Mayans with no evident technology recording planetary and star movement with more accuracy than we can now does not fit? Lizard people do not fit?

What all these things do fit quite nicely with are those stories going around! Those hard to believe stories fit perfectly with these hard to compare to civilizations. Just like we struggle to imagine lizard people, we struggle to explain unnatural monolithic structures. We relate to giant humans about as well as we do crop circles. We try to identify with these things because we can't identify with them belonging to something else. We cannot accept that aliens are real, so we attempt to convince ourselves capable of these things. We can't even explain what some of these things are, or even why there here, let alone how they were made? Most of all we can't connect them to ourselves. No matter how hard we try, we cannot make them part of us. Because they're not part of us at all. But they are definitely there!

Many of you will resist this as proof, but what else can it mean? Some will try to dismiss it by arguing only sections, but not all. They'll claim satisfaction, but I don't see how? I think it's enough!

stargods.org...
www.returnofthenephilim.com...
www.zmescience.com...
www.planetxvideo.com...
www.unmuseum.org...
www.bibleufo.com...

reply to post by Zerbst

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That's a well-written OP, good links etc. It's sure to be flagged a dozen times too because these ideas are accepted fact among many ATS members. The accounts are featured in books, dvds and on ad-heavy websites because they appeal to the imagination and generate sales. Many of their accounts can be checked and are found to be made up or ignore conflicting evidence.

The Dogon had no idea about Sirius B until Griule and recent research by Van Beek isn't supportive of Temple's alien hypothesis (source ). Yonaguna is a natural formation. Robert Schoch (fringe geologist) has dived there and concluded it's natural. Only Morien Institute insists it's artificial. Atlantis is a fable written about by Plato and only Plato. He clearly describes a bronze-age people...swords & spears no aircraft.

The Pyramids(over a hundred of them) were built by humans..their graves litter the area. There are quarries where the blocks came from and saw marks on the blocks. The image below is Kafre's quarry. From the Mastabas to the Djhoser step pyramid to the Giza pyramids there is clear evolution. The dates have been described by the King Lists, neighboring histories, luminescence, grave goods, stele etc.



Our ancestors can appear alien to modern eyes. It's hard for some people to comprehend the great building feats that they achieved. We know that they aren't really aliens. We still have their remains to study. Their bones are the same as our bones. Skulls (brain capacity) the same as ours. Their genome is the same as ours. We can chart the spread of human migration using the Genographic Project and haplogroups.

reply to post by Kandinsky

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Thank you, Kandinsky, and thanks for your reply.

I agree with your perspective, for the most part anyway. There are a few things that I have difficulty dismissing that I'd like to hear your opinion on. The giants are one, as well as the massive weight and precision found in the monolith structures? Another is the Dropa Stones and Ica Stones? Also, the Nazca Lines of Peru? There are many others as well, but even these few are quite mind boggling!

Peace.

reply to post by Kandinsky

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Yes, well written OP.........Awesome in fact... star, and flag....Ah, notice how easy they are to give out Knadinsky? Not picking on you, but you mentioned giving one.... I just started the chain.



To the OP, you made an excellent case, but skimmed what your individual belief in the matter is..... I'd like you to elaborate on that, please.

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones

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Hello, Sancho. Thanks for the reply.

I make an effort not to stray too far from neutrality when authoring a thread. I think it's the best way to encourage others to express their views more freely? Sometimes that causes my personal opinion to blur. I agree with you. Thanks for pointing it out.

I'm relatively conservative and cannot hold something true without viable support. Where I differ from conventional fact based belief systems is by what I consider proof. I do, however, need everything known of an event to logically fit someplace before confirming it a truth. For instance, I tend to agree with Kandinsky about the Dogon Legend, but unlike him, I cannot disregard all the rest because of it. Of course not all of these mysteries are going to be true, but even one would speak volumes. Right now there are many that cannot be dismissed, so my individual belief is that there certainly is something going on that has nothing to do with my species.

I think that's exactly why they are so difficult for us to accept as even possible? Most people turn away from the entire subject due to unwillingness to support something so uncomfortable if true. I don't think any of us could normalize these things if they were? Most people, deep down, do not want to believe giants built the Giza pyramids, or Washington carried out 911. I personally encourage anything true no matter the consequences. I never want to be spared the truth in anything.

reply to post by Zerbst

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Well hey, the OP was awesome, I still need to check out the links.......more thoroughly.

Your species is man?

I am a firm/solid believer in Reptilians. Besides the Youtube stuff floating around; there's an excellent High resolution MSNBC video floating around... At the very end the reporter's eyes morph...just like on the Youtube stuff.

As you pointed out the amount of Ancient Cultures worshipping Reptilian, or snake gods lends credence to the theory of them still being around.

As far as Proof; which everyone demands for their perceived truth.... It's hard to come by.

Researching giants on the net has shown me several articles from the late 19th century/early 20th century; of course from the MSM of the time.

Many of the people searching claim that the actual governmental orgs. which are to preserve that stuff actually are the ones covering it up......Giants, reptilians, egyption ruins....etc.

Just interesting...

Thanks again for the OP

reply to post by Kandinsky

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Dear Kandinsky

The Giza pyramid of Kafre's has somewhere between 2.3 & 2.6 million blokes of stone weighting approximately 2.5 tones each. This was made in twenty years according to the Egyptologists with copper chisels.

This is what they have us except as fact.

So these people laid a stone like this perfectly aligned every 0.44 of 1 minute.

Not one thing I have either seen or read has ever come anywhere close to explaining this.

I don’t think we could do that today with all the help from modern tech.

Originally posted by MAC269
reply to post by Kandinsky

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Dear Kandinsky

The Giza pyramid of Kafre's has somewhere between 2.3 & 2.6 million blokes of stone weighting approximately 2.5 tones each. This was made in twenty years according to the Egyptologists with copper chisels.

This is what they have us except as fact.

So these people laid a stone like this perfectly aligned every 0.44 of 1 minute.

Not one thing I have either seen or read has ever come anywhere close to explaining this.

I don’t think we could do that today with all the help from modern tech.

Thanks for replying, Mac269.

The Great Pyramid in Egypt is said to have been constructed in approximately 20 years according to the official story. Anyone wanting to disprove this illogical explanation can do so using simple math. Below is Eric Von Danikens more logical theory. It shows how some 664 years would be needed to accomplish this task if using construction methods stated in the official story! This single fact alone exposes popular claims, despite there are others equally as fallible.

www.biblebelievers.org.au...
A Matter of Scale

In weighing up whether or not the ancient Egyptians built or were capable of building the Great Pyramid on their own we do not have to involve ourselves with the pyramid's incredible precision, its astronomy or its apparent predictive characteristics, we simply have to look to its size for our answer.

Through time and particularly in the last century the Great Pyramid has been the subject of almost countless exhaustive investigations by legions of experts, architects, engineers, cosmologists, scientists, surveyors, even musicians and recording engineers have come to take in this marvel of the ancient world. The result of this intense focus of attention, the repeated measurements and the careful studied deliberations is that we can be very sure about the Pyramids absolute dimensions, its location on the Earth and the fact that apart from a few internal chambers it is certainly not hollow. The simple fact that the pyramid is not hollow leaves us with the mathematical certainty that there must have been some 2.6 million blocks of stone involved in its construction. This enormous number, this factor of scale could never have been taken into account when any analysis was made of how this building was constructed, for if it had the ramp concept of construction could never have lasted as long as it has. Through the centuries, the majority who came to consider how this building was constructed could never have made any careful study of just how long it would take to build a structure as large as this pyramid. In his book Chariots of the Gods, Erich Von Daniken makes the simple point that if ten blocks were laid each day it would take 664 years to complete the structure. This is based on the very elementary procedure of dividing the total number of blocks by ten. No one surely thinks that it took 664 years to build this pyramid, even a tenth of this period is unacceptable if the tomb theory of the pyramid is to have any merit. Yet constructing this pyramid in a time of 67 years entails that two-hundred thirty tonnes of limestone or granite were laid each day. This means that, on average, a hundred times every single day more than two tonnes of stone would have been precisely put in place. As each block has been carefully located next to its neighbours, very often with hairline precision, this entails that only nine minutes was allowed to place each block in an average fifteen hour working day. Nine minutes per each block of stone with little or no mechanical assistance, just levers and brute strength. This is surely quite impossible, even ten times that figure at 90 minutes per block is hard to credit.

This is exactly the point I'm trying to get across. There are many things, like the pyramids, that are explained away rather illogically. Some of these ancient sites are so bizarre they are kept from becoming common knowledge, for even an illogical explanation couldn't describe them in any rational manor? This link has loads of information on the unexplained!


www.antiquescopes.com...

reply to post by Zerbst

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Dear Zerbst

So even if you have a swarm of Egyptians resembling ants crawling across the structure I have never seen any adequate explanation of how they where feed and watered.

One documentary I watched said that there would have needed to be ten times more admin staff than builders.

This points to the catering staff being more than the population of Egypt at that time.

So sorry the excavation of a few graves and kitchens does not fit the official theory.

Also the quarries themselves do not seam to be big enough to have enough people in them to cover this theory.

Have a look at Coral Castle in Florida. The two things go together for me.

reply to post by MAC269

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The Giza pyramid of Kafre's has somewhere between 2.3 & 2.6 million blokes of stone weighting approximately 2.5 tones each. This was made in twenty years according to the Egyptologists with copper chisels.

This is what they have us except as fact.

So these people laid a stone like this perfectly aligned every 0.44 of 1 minute.

Not one thing I have either seen or read has ever come anywhere close to explaining this.

I don’t think we could do that today with all the help from modern tech.

Your math seems a bit off.

2.6 million blocks divided by 20 years would be 130,000 blocks per year. You divide that down by 12 months and we have 10,833.33 blocks per month, now you can take this 1 of 2 ways, you could say that they did not work on weekends, which I doubt and that the slept approx 6 hours a night, taking this into account working an average about 20 days a month 541.6667 blocks per day, which in turn would be 30.09259 blocks per hour, or approximately 1 block every 2 minutes was shaped and put into position. If you believe that they had round the clock workers, accounting for all days of the week being worked, averaging about 30 days a month, and all hours of the day as well you get 361.1111 blocks a day, 15.0463 blocks an hour which would be approximately 1 block being shaped and put into place every 4 minutes.

The numbers still might seem impossible to shape and place a large stone every 4 minutes. The other theory that says it would have taken 664 years does not seem right either that would turn into approximately 1 block every hour for my first scenario, or 2 blocks every hour for my second scenario. This is something they did not do on a whim, it was something they were used to doing, something they had a technique in place for doing, and should take no where near 1 hour to lay 1 block. Where I say 20 years may be a bit off, 664 I believe is way off.

The other thing to take into consideration is the strength of these people who were moving these blocks. I would think they would be much stronger than your average citizen of the world today. I put their strength in the same category as the strong man competitors of today. They are constantly lifting blocks, thus their strength would increase no matter what method they used. They were in constant motion, thus they should have been in better physical shape than the average modern day citizen of the world.

It is possible they only did rough shaping before putting these blocks into position and the finishing touches to make them align perfectly was done after they were in position by a second group. Even with the rough shaping they probably were able to get pretty accurate since they had been doing this routine over and over again.

All of this must be considered when determining how these monuments were built and by whom.


[edit on 8/6/2009 by AlienCarnage]

Originally posted by Zerbst
reply to post by Kandinsky

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Thank you, Kandinsky, and thanks for your reply.

I agree with your perspective, for the most part anyway. There are a few things that I have difficulty dismissing that I'd like to hear your opinion on. The giants are one, as well as the massive weight and precision found in the monolith structures? Another is the Dropa Stones and Ica Stones? Also, the Nazca Lines of Peru? There are many others as well, but even these few are quite mind boggling!

Peace.

Hiya Zerbst,
I used to be interested in all the weirdness of history, bought the books and magazines etc. It all played a big part in why I enjoy learning about history so much. It was because I believed all this that I began looking for more information.

The 'Giants' are mentioned in a lot of old texts and myths across continents. Your link mentions the Nephilim. My favorites would be the two giants fighting over Giant's Causeway in Ireland. If you look into the existence of giants as a lost race, there's no evidence. There are no huge bones, no giant weapons etc. The most famous archaeological giant is probably...Cardiff Giant, he was toured around the States as evidence that the Old Testament was factual. Many of the myths of giants are perpetuated for the same reasons. We've been creating myths about giants as recently as the 18th Century. The Child of Haigh, Liverpool was a genuine 8 and a half guy that became famous for his size. Photos online of exhumed giant skeletons are hoaxes or promotions for games.

The Cardiff Giant

Huge monoliths? These badasses are a testament to sheer human ingenuity, willpower and a society ruled by a powerful leader. The first one in your link is the Baalbeck Trilithon...one look at the largest stone and it's very difficult to accept labor could shift it. A lot of websites...in fact most, prefer to focus on the wonder and mystery of their creation. They suggest, "Surely simple Man could not have created such things!" and leave the implication we either had anti-grav or aliens. The largest stone was quarried about 600yards up a gentle gradient. It was used as a retaining wall by the Romans. In excavating the site, behind the trilithon is a lot of backfill and the spoil of the Romans...potsherds, bent/broken tools etc. There's a good thread here...Baalbek, that has a lot of challenging ideas before settling on the 'men did it' explanation. Karl12 and Hanslune are good guys

Even earlier, the Egyptians had attempted to quarry an obelisk some 1200 tons. It's been left in the quarry because an unseen fissure led to it breaking in two before completion...Unfinished Obelisk. I post this because it's perfect evidence of the ambition these guys had back then. The Obelisk has the quarry marks and pits were they knocked it into shape using diorite rock hammers.

The 'Dropa Stones' are a hoax. No names in the account have been found to exist. The guy that first wrote about them, admitted he'd made it all up in an interview with Fortean Times...after he'd published the book and gotten his royalty check. His name was David Agamon...google that and 'fortean times.' Try here

The Ica Stones are yet another hoax. This time carried out by Uschuey or Uscheri. He sold one stone after another to archaeologists. they featured dinosaurs, fish and animals that had never set foot on the American landmass. The local police arrested him for selling 'national treasure' and he admitted to hoaxing. They let him off and he carried on selling them! IIRC there was an estimate of some thousands he sold in total...everyone in one piece despite the original claim that they'd lain in a riverbed for 1000s of years. Try here

Nazca Lines aren't a hoax. The society that created them is fairly lost to time. The lines were created by scraping back the dark surface of the Nazca Desert to reveal lighter, unworn stone beneath. The symbols that many have made to be so mysterious are found across that part of the Andes. They represent local animals and myths. The lines are probably directed at the sky, but not at guys on the Moon or in space...rain gods. Being desert, the environment is hostile, arid and water a major element of daily life. It's natural that they should try and earn favor or attract attention to ensure the rains would come.

Other peoples in the area have carved the symbols on rock in caves etc. The tradition has survived long enough for some members of the current populations to recall their grandparents using them and identify the meaning.

I'm a bit low on sources in this post, going off memory and that's a lot of questions. I can post links later if necessary

reply to post by Kandinsky

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I do have a question regarding the giants. Could it just be misrepresentation on the actual size of the giants, after all I am 5’11” and a 7’ basketball player to me is huge, to someone even 5” shorter, they would seem a giant I would think. Is it possible that this is the actual logic in place when we read about giants in historical texts; they are just exaggerated to seem even taller based on perspective?

reply to post by AlienCarnage

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Hiya AC,

I think that likely plays a part in it. There's a lot of human nature bound up in myth, legend and folklore. I've never known a guy that says he lost a fight to a little guy. With retelling, the guy becomes bigger, stronger. It seems reasonable that some legends have exaggerated proportions. Victors and losers might turn a 'big unit' into a giant? On top of that (like your basketball player) there are some seriously big people in the world. Some giants might just have been 7 foot plus big fellas.

The problem historians have with the idea of a 'race of giants' is the only evidence is in literature. Fans of the idea cherrypick Sitchin's annunaki or old legends without understanding a lot about mythology. The greek legends featured critters like the Minotaur, Medusa and people being turned into sounds (Echo and Narcissus) and fans don't think for a minute that they are facts. IMO, because they like the idea of a lost race of giants that built the megaliths or left in spacecraft, they choose to believe those elements of stories.

The internet is also full of websites devoted to alleged giants found in caves all over the place. Where are they? The fans claim that 'they' destroyed them to prevent us from knowing the 'Truth.' Damn Professors hide them in back rooms because we 'can't handle' knowing that giants existed. A lot of these sites 'need' giants to exist to add credence to the Old Testament and cast doubt on the Theory of Evolution. The Cardiff Giant is one example of that agenda.

There's a pile of giants in modern stories (Hagrid, the Beanstalk Giant, Jolly Green Giant, Big Friendly Giant etc)...it's not like nobody's ever made them up. But yeah, before I waffle, you're probably right. A few genuinely big warriors elevated into legend...and a few shaggy dog tales too.

List of Giants in Myth

Giants to prove Genesis

Giant skeleton hoaxes

reply to post by AlienCarnage

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Dear AlienCarnage

How many hours a day are you considering with your maths because you only get an average of 12 hours day light in those parts. Also you seam only to be considering the laying of the blokes.

First you have to quarry them with hammers and copper chisels. To me the quarry that they say the blokes came from doesn’t seam big enough to get all the people that would be required in there all at once which would naturally be essential to complete the work.

Oh by the way the official time scale is twenty years. Also they say that it would require 10 times the amount of overseers to the workers. So just how do you feed and water all these people.

Originally posted by AlienCarnage
reply to post by Kandinsky

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I do have a question regarding the giants. Could it just be misrepresentation on the actual size of the giants, after all I am 5’11” and a 7’ basketball player to me is huge, to someone even 5” shorter, they would seem a giant I would think. Is it possible that this is the actual logic in place when we read about giants in historical texts; they are just exaggerated to seem even taller based on perspective?

In the books of E'Noch it gives their height as being three thousand ells!

02. And they became pregnant,
and they bare great giants,
whose height was Three Thousand Ells.

One ell is about One meter... so reported to be about three thousand meters,

But I suspect our understanding today of the ell may be incorrect.

But you never know ???

It was reported these Giants were abnormal ! and Evil being called Bar......ds and the result of fornication !

Many mothers died before the 9 month period was up, because the child was too large for them to contain.

I guess it was a case of genetics out of control, due to some miss match between the species regarding DNA.

The ones that crossed with our species were Hermaphrodites that is according to these writings.!

[edit on 7-8-2009 by The Matrix Traveller]

reply to post by MAC269

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So just how do you feed and water all these people?

In the late 90s Mark Lehner (Egyptologist) was wondering the same thing. He knew that there had to be a place for all the workers and to sleep, eat and have what passed for fun in a pre-beer, pre-TV and pre-football world.

He worked out that a settlement would need to be in reach of supply lines so he looked around the harbor area. From under the desert poked a long wall. Over the next few years (and still) they've excavated two large towns where the builders would have stayed. What they found changed ideas of how Pyramids built.

It used to be assumed that the builders were all slaves and that life was a turd sandwich if you weren't a Pharaoh. Instead, Lehner found that the workers lived on a very healthy diet. Inside and surrounding the towns were huge grain silos, great bread ovens, cattle bones and tons of fish bones.


Grain Bins

What was interesting about the cattle bones was they were usually under two years old! That was prime beef.



The AERA project have been restoring and reconstructing some of the dwellings, ovens and grain silos. Their work has shed light on the manpower and resources required for the clay brick industry too...check it out.

The two towns are estimated to sleep around 30, 000 people. In the builder's towns are the remains of 'barracks,' long buildings that had an institutional look according to the Lehner team. Each one could sleep hundreds...here's an image of the end of one....



What Lehner's excavations really accomplished was to put a lot of ideas in Egyptology on their ass. Instead of a slave nation and overseers with whips lashing slave gangs hauling blocks, it was different. The pyramids were a 'National Project' that effectively created Egypt as a powerful State. Resources, trade etc were all boosted to build the Pyramids. No matter your position in Egyptian society, you were somehow connected to the Pyramids.

Here's a couple of really interesting links...the first has great images and is interactive...The Lost City.

Pyramid Builders' Village Found in Egypt

reply to post by MAC269

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So you believe that just because it got dark they stopped working . . . . .Ugh, modern day thinking. . . .
The light of the moon can be very bright and give off a lot of light. When you get away from the city and out in the country, you realize this more, you also realize how little you actually use your flashlight once you let your eyes adjust to the natural light., These workers would not stop once the light went down, and more than likely worked in shifts to be able to continue round the clock. During the phases of the moon where there was less light, more than likely the worked by torch light. I am not talking about simple hand held torches either, I am talking large torches, small towers, just a few of these would offer more than enough light.

As far as not enough material in queries goes, there is a good possibility that these blacks are not as solid as one might think. It has been considered that these blocks could actually be an early form of concrete block se source below. This would also speed up the construction of the pyramid considerably.

www.accessmylibrary.com...

Technological levels of people are being rethought all the time. Who knows what they will determine next.

Now if you take into account that people were much stronger, in better shape back then, you would not need to add as many workers as you suggest thus feeding them and keeping them hydrated would not be a problem.

I believe our ancestors were more ingenious than we tend to give them credit for.

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