What will it take for you to Believe!? (God)

reply to post by smarteye

Who or what is God? Creator of the universe and all life? And so this God created all this so that it can later judge the souls that live on the Earth?

Must be one dumb assed god that needs to judge that which it created in the first place.

Being omnipresent (allegedly) all creating and judging (supposed) would be done in the same moment.

So if there is a creator of all that there is, then we only act in the manner of our creators design.

Free will is an illusion, something that xtians in particular can't seem to wrap their minds around or are too afraid to think about it at a very deep level.

Originally posted by Locoman8
God chooses His people in this lifetime.

That's nice, a bit like natural selection?

Not a very benevolent deity if he randomly chooses people and decides the rest can succumb to life on their own.

reply to post by moocowman

Free will is an illusion, something that xtians in particular can't seem to wrap their minds around or are too afraid to think about it at a very deep level.

God doesn't force anyone to come to Christ; people have to decide on their own. You're demonstrating that free will by rejecting Christ.

reply to post by moocowman

Is a child that is born with a sever deformity a mistake or a thing of beauty created by a god ?

Things like that happen because man, in the beginning, disobeyed God and fell into sin. That's also why people steal, lie, kill, etc.

So here we have a god, the creator of "everything" with a problem ????? Where exactly did this problem come from, if god created "Everything"?

Lucifer had free will and wanted to replace God, so God cast Him out of Heaven.

reply to post by Melissa101


Simple. I'll have to find God myself. I'll actually have to put some effort for it

Originally posted by Totakeke
reply to post by moocowman

 

Free will is an illusion, something that xtians in particular can't seem to wrap their minds around or are too afraid to think about it at a very deep level.

God doesn't force anyone to come to Christ; people have to decide on their own. You're demonstrating that free will by rejecting Christ.

We did that bit earlier dude and you didn't answer, you seem to be using circular reasoning.

Your god (you allege) created you and everything else, so there is "Nothing" that your god did not create.

When you were created you were designed to act in a given way, let's say for argument to sit .

You observe however, that in fact you also stand as well as sit. You claim that your creator allows you to sit of your own volition.

Now we know that the impetus for sitting has come from god, he designed you to sit, but you claim that the impetus for standing is not from god it is your own.

If the impetus to stand has come from you and you are designed by god, then clearly this impetus was designed by god.

If however you counter with the impetus not being created by god and logically not of you, then what created the impetus to stand ?

Simple question my friend, look forward to your reply.

Originally posted by infinite
Not a very benevolent deity if he randomly chooses people and decides the rest can succumb to life on their own.

No, in fact it sounds like a needy and highly fallible human with major ego issues.

"Worship me or I won't like you... Everyone has to like me or else"

This is the tip off that god was created by humans... not the other way around.

IRM

Originally posted by moocowman

Originally posted by Totakeke
reply to post by moocowman

 

Free will is an illusion, something that xtians in particular can't seem to wrap their minds around or are too afraid to think about it at a very deep level.

God doesn't force anyone to come to Christ; people have to decide on their own. You're demonstrating that free will by rejecting Christ.

We did that bit earlier dude and you didn't answer, you seem to be using circular reasoning.

Your god (you allege) created you and everything else, so there is "Nothing" that your god did not create.

When you were created you were designed to act in a given way, let's say for argument to sit .

You observe however, that in fact you also stand as well as sit. You claim that your creator allows you to sit of your own volition.

Now we know that the impetus for sitting has come from god, he designed you to sit, but you claim that the impetus for standing is not from god it is your own.

If the impetus to stand has come from you and you are designed by god, then clearly this impetus was designed by god.

If however you counter with the impetus not being created by god and logically not of you, then what created the impetus to stand ?

Simple question my friend, look forward to your reply.

We have free will to do what we want. We can sit or we can stand (to use your examples). Claiming that God created these actions (which is irrelevant) doesn't mean He forced you to perform them.

[edit on 3-8-2009 by Totakeke]

Originally posted by Totakeke
We have free will to do what we want.

Even though God, at first, tried to deny us it?

Originally posted by infinite

Originally posted by Totakeke
We have free will to do what we want.

Even though God, at first, tried to deny us it?

God didn't deny us free will. We still ate from the Tree of Knowledge, despite God telling us not to.

[edit on 3-8-2009 by Totakeke]

Originally posted by Totakeke
reply to post by moocowman

 

Is a child that is born with a sever deformity a mistake or a thing of beauty created by a god ?

Things like that happen because man, in the beginning, disobeyed God and fell into sin. That's also why people steal, lie, kill, etc.

So here we have a god, the creator of "everything" with a problem ????? Where exactly did this problem come from, if god created "Everything"?

Lucifer had free will and wanted to replace God, so God cast Him out of Heaven.

So man that god created, somehow acted in a manner not created by god,hm

Because man acted in a manner that go somehow managed to not create him to do, god then turns around and creates a deformed child.

So next time we comfort a severely handicapped child who is dying in agony and is at the end of its' wretched miserable life. The child can take comfort in the fact that, he/she was born to suffer a short miserable life as a punishment from god for the actions of other people.

Nice compassionate jesus yahweh god you got there, perhaps you should pop into your nearest pediatrics hospital and explain to the children why their suffering is necassry and you can then go off and have pizza.

So god decided to create Lucifer, and thought it would be a neat idea if Lucifer could become a bad guy. So god (who created everything) created something called bad and allowed Lucifer to be this. Obviously he would have said to Lucifer something on the lines of "hey Lou, you want to be the bad guy ?" and obviously Lucifer replied "yes boss".

So from then on in, Lucifer (that god created) became the author of everything god did "not" want people to do IE bad (which god who created everything also created) and everything that was good came from god and everything that was bad came from, er em duh God but Lucifer was given responsibility of it.

So when your at the pediatrics hospital watching a 3 year old taking her last breath. You can hold her little hand and tell her distraught parents confidently,

" hey it's ok she deserved this because she was born into a bad world and its' all your fault, her miserable suffering is a message from god to you, now rejoice and praise the lord."

Strange isn't it how your god thought it would be a great deal of fun, to create loving happy spirits and put them on a planet then get his magic wand and create misery death and pain to liven things up a little"

reply to post by Totakeke

We have free will to do what we want. We can sit or we can stand (to use your examples). Claiming that God created these actions (which is irrelevant) doesn't mean He forced you to perform them.

Clearly you're a little slow on the uptake here or downright separated from your faculty of reason.

If you are created to sit then this is all you will do,

if you are created to stand this is all you will do.

If you are created to do both then both you shall do.

When you actually sit or stand is defendant on what ?

Impetus !

All I'm asking you in quite easy simple terms (which both my young children are quite able to consider) is where does the impetus come from?

My children are of the opinion that if your god is the creator of "everything" then the impetus cannot come from anywhere else other than your god.

So please explain to my children who or what created the impetus, they are eagerly awaiting your response, as they are completely bemused by any alternative source.

ATS is better than the cartoon network on rainy days sometimes lol

Originally posted by Totakeke
God didn't deny us free will. We still ate from the Tree of Knowledge, despite God telling us not to.

Again, he did not want us having a free will if we are instructed not to eat certain products. Also, in Genesis, light came before the sun - so why did God create a sun if holy light was effective enough?

How come the moon, planets and the principle of a hydro centric universe is not mentioned? Qur'an mentions all the above, including "Allah" creating "other Earth's and Heavens"

reply to post by infinite

How come the moon, planets and the principle of a hydro centric universe is not mentioned? Qur'an mentions all the above, including "Allah" creating "other Earth's and Heavens"

Boy you've done it now, that was a real hard one you will either get no response or some meaningless scripture.

Where's Old Thinker when hard questions requiring endless meaningless scripture is needed ?

reply to post by infinite

Again, he did not want us having a free will if we are instructed not to eat certain products.

If we didn't have free will there would be no way to eat off of that tree, but we did. God told us not to do something, but didn't make it so we couldn't do it.

Originally posted by Totakeke
reply to post by infinite

 

Again, he did not want us having a free will if we are instructed not to eat certain products.

If we didn't have free will there would be no way to eat off of that tree, but we did. God told us not to do something, but didn't make it so we couldn't do it.

There you go again a completely meaningless response, how about answering what I asked you earlier? ---

If you are created to sit then this is all you will do,

if you are created to stand this is all you will do.

If you are created to do both then both you shall do.

When you actually sit or stand is defendant on what ?

Impetus !

All I'm asking you in quite easy simple terms (which both my young children are quite able to consider) is where does the impetus come from?

My children are of the opinion that if your god is the creator of "everything" then the impetus cannot come from anywhere else other than your god.

So please explain to my children who or what created the impetus? They are (still) eagerly awaiting your response, as they are completely bemused by any alternative source.

ATS is better than the cartoon network on rainy days sometimes lol

God gave us free will but didn't really expect us to use it

I can see how that makes perfect sense

I doubt Tota knows what 'impetus' actually means Moocow, not sure what he's doing hanging out at ATS he should be out playing ball somewhere

reply to post by newworld


Refer to the Pegan thread for mystical pagen "gods".

Originally posted by lifecitizen
God gave us free will but didn't really expect us to use it

I can see how that makes perfect sense

I doubt Tota knows what 'impetus' actually means Moocow, not sure what he's doing hanging out at ATS he should be out playing ball somewhere

I nearly pissed myself laughing at that lol

Yup the snapping little terrier should be chasing a ball and have a break from his tail.

In all fairness he comes across as pleasant enough, I've had a few debates with him but he seems to hit a stumbling block with free will, in that hea cannot seem to define it.

I get the feeling that he missed the beginning of Millennium Man where Robin Williams was "designed" to act independently and evolve according to his surroundings and conditions, but only in accord with the parameters set in his design.

Originally posted by moocowman

Originally posted by lifecitizen
God gave us free will but didn't really expect us to use it

I can see how that makes perfect sense

I doubt Tota knows what 'impetus' actually means Moocow, not sure what he's doing hanging out at ATS he should be out playing ball somewhere

I nearly pissed myself laughing at that lol

Yup the snapping little terrier should be chasing a ball and have a break from his tail.

In all fairness he comes across as pleasant enough, I've had a few debates with him but he seems to hit a stumbling block with free will, in that hea cannot seem to define it.

I get the feeling that he missed the beginning of Millennium Man where Robin Williams was "designed" to act independently and evolve according to his surroundings and conditions, but only in accord with the parameters set in his design.

The movie was actually "Bicentennial Man", not Millennium Man.

I will define free will for you.

" freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention "

This means, God created us with the freedom to make our own choices. Does He know what choices we will make? Most christians would say "yes" and they would be wrong. God knows the outcome of all choices. Does He know what mankind as a whole will do? Yes because we are a destructive people led by "the god of this world", Satan. The idea that we are given free will is for God to show us that He's not here to enslave us. He wants us to follow Him as He is creator... He is our Father in heaven. Just as a parent expects it's child to follow it's orders, the same goes for God. I know you're a non-believer but I'm giving you my opinion on this to show you not all of us think alike. I don't celebrate pagan holidays like christmas or easter. I worship on Saturday instead of Sunday. I follow the holy day feasts of the old testament as they were commanded by God and followed by Jesus and the first century Church. I'm not your typical christain but one that follows God closer than most churches. I don't believe people will burn eternity in hell. I don't believe in hell, but the lake of fire which is a second death. I don't believe this lifetime is all you have to choose heaven or hell. I don't believe man goes to heaven (john 3:13) but lives on earth as Jesus returns to bring peace on earth.

My brother is athiest and I tend to defend him quite often when hypocritical "bible thumpers" tell him that he'll burn in hell so I'm not out here to preach to you. I want to share my opinion and tell you that God will not sentence you to death at His judgement, but will give you a chance to repent when you resurrect from the dead. By then, you'll see with your very own eyes and hear with your ears the complete truth spoken by Christ Himself. By then, you'll accept Him out of proof, or you'll deny Him out of dictatorship rule by God. Even then, God shows mercy by not punishing you for eternity, but by giving you a death sentence in the lake of fire, known as the second death. I say to you now that it was given to you to not know or understand until the time is right for you. God bless you all, or at the very least, good day to you.