What will it take for you to Believe!? (God)

Originally posted by heyo
reply to post by InfaRedMan

 

that's all you got?
expected better from you.
you, with your inormation bringing and reasonable assumptions.
shame on you.

My answer was honest and pithy. I have no reason to rant on with paragraphs of explanations for my belief system. I have nothing against people who believe (so long as they don't force the believe system upon me) and I don't make them justify any further than "I believe".

IMHO, religion is a form of indoctrination. That's just how I feel.

IRM

reply to post by Totakeke

God always was. Like I said, he isn't bound by time like we are.

To go from point A to point B involves time.

"In the beginning God created..."

God is not bound by time so by definition he is frozen in whatever dimension he is in, then behold! He "decided" in whatever dimension he "was" in to create the universe and the earth.

God existed before we did.

What does that mean? According to you, God is not bound by time, i.e. God is timeless. How could have he existed "before" we did?

reply to post by spellbound

but if you believe in Jesus, that is the main thing, and if you don't, OK.

How old is the human race?

How many human civilizations?

How many deities?

reply to post by Simon_Boudreaux

It's always the same answers, always the same blind ignorance called faith. Well god has always been, god works in mysterious ways, we aren't meant to understand god, it's god's will.

Which, in my opinion, points toward the existence of aliens

Why not call God "Mystery"? That is what he or she or it is. (Christians, please do not quote verses on this mystery)

Perhaps that is what this whole thing is? The whole friggin thing is a MYSTERY!

Religious people always try to define God as this or that or whatever the heck they feel like.

Does it ever occur to you all that it does not matter what you believe? If you want to believe in God? Go ahead! If you don't, then go ahead!

In the end, it doesn't matter!

It is my belief that we are all eternal beings playing infinite number of games! That's another topic for another time.

Some Christians would say that it's important to believe in and accept Jesus. I only ask one question:

What is the POINT of punishing a being eternally for a finite sin?

Same things it takes to believe in anything. A mind open to the possibility, and evidence that supports the idea. Actually, the open mind is not strictly necessary. God can hammer His point through a thick skull.

What does it take to believe in anyone? You have to get to know them. If they never talk to you; if they never express to you who they are, what they want, how they feel about you - then they might as well not exist. You can't get to know them; how can you believe?

Same with God. If He remains a mysterious, invisible, silent, hidden Being, then He might as well not exist at all. Unless God somehow manifests Himself to you, there is no more reason to think He exists, than to think that the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists.

The idea that you must have faith, that you must believe in God without any evidence, is nonsense. Why should I have faith in this invisible God, any more than I have faith in the invisible pink elephant in the next room?

Personally, I don't think God worries too much about whether we "believe" in Him. I think He's OK with us ignoring Him. He's content to let us run around unmindful of Him, involved in our little games and plans. He'll still be here if and when we decide to go looking for Him. And as I said, if He wants to grab your attention, He can be very persuasive. If it's necessary for you to believe in God for some reason, you'll believe. He'll find a way to make sure of it.

[edit on 8/2/2009 by chiron613]

"What was God doing before he made the world?"

"Was he preparing hell for people who asked such questions?"

- St. Augustine of Hippo AD 426

"If the universe had a beginning why did it wait an infinite amount of time before it began?"

"If the universe had existed forever why did it take an infinite amount of time to reach the present stage?

- Immanuel Kant

Thinking like that can drive one mad.

If you are interested, listen to Steven Hawking's lecture on the origin of the universe: www.youtube.com...

I agree with "turkeyburgers" 100%.
If this God is real, to convince everyone n the world of his power, he can prove it by doing impossible things. But we can predict everything that goes on around us... so does that mean that we can predict God? If so, he is nothing to be admired.

reply to post by chiron613


You don't sound like someone who believe in God who sends some people to hell.

At some point in a dimension (not time), he "deemed" (a decision made in some dimension other than time) that some people deserve "eternal" punishment for "not believing" (another decision) in Him.

Wow. Do you see what I am seeing? The whole thing is a "dot" as in the dot at the end of this sentence.

reply to post by sweetbechtold

If this God is real, to convince everyone n the world of his power, he can prove it by doing impossible things.

In Matrix, Neo can do impossible things. What does that tell you?

reply to post by Totakeke

Why did He have to come from somewhere? He exists outside of time; He has neither a beginning nor an end. This is a weird concept because we're used to things beginning and ending, but God has existed forever and will exist forever.

Know what is weird?

Why did he wait an infinite amount of time before he "decided" to create the world?

Oh wait. Maybe the universe was created at the BEGINNING of the infinity past?

Why now? Why not yesterday? Why not tomorrow? Why are we not in heaven right now? And so on and on.

Belief in a deity is surrendering yourself to the belief that humans are some what pathetic and need controlling. A "God" denies the beauty and intelligence of man because you are attributing humanities achievements to a mythological idea.

"God" denies us the right to be human.

Apologies, but I take a very hard line and unsympathetic approach to religion - I associate it to the neo-fascist movements of Europe. Religion and democracy cannot be a coalition, for it denies basic human rights. Scientific achievements and medical advances cannot be celebrated because the religious coalition are hostile to anything that contradicts a religious text.

And, fundamentally, why should I have to justify myself to others? Are we some what immoral for lacking a theological compass. It should be you who proves the existence, not us who deny it.

If you believe in God, my advice is visit the Middle East and you will see the land is not "holy" with "holy problems", it is human...all too human.

reply to post by infinite


Very eloquent in your execution infinite! That about sums it up for me!

IRM

This is all it should take for some of you to believe in God:

smphillips.8m.com...

You must be willing, however, to spend a few weeks, perhaps months, mastering the 50 research articles (downloadable PDFs) until you discover the astounding, mathematically rigorous evidence for transcendental design in various aspects of Nature. It would also help to some mathematical ability. But, once you have encountered the mathematical signature of God, you can never doubt His existence.

This thread is not fair. What about the thousands of other gods/goddesses/ out there? Do we only get one choice?
The only way for me to believe in a god would be if he/she created a form of life in front of me, WITH NO TECHNOLOGY.
If the god/goddess proved it's power in front of a group of scientists and secular scholars so as to make sure I was not hallucinating and to make sure someone didn't put something in my drink.

right afterwards, I'll ask the deity several questions about life and my personal life to see if the deity is really "all-knowing"
last but not least, i would ask which deity it is, if there are more gods/goddesses and if he/she/it is a deity No ONE in the world wrote about.

the closest thing to a deity for me is the almighty google. it answers all my questions as fast I as want. It gives me more than one answer, in case I'm not satisfied and to give me freedom of choice, and google helped me find this website.
All praise google!
(I'm joking for those who actually think Google is a deity)

What would it take for me to believe? Evidence. Verified, tangable, unfalsifiable, empirical evidence. Personal experiences and miracles don't count as evidence.

Holy texts also don't count as evidence. They all claim to be the "only" correct religion, and the very minute ammount of evidence that isn't falsified is, at best, extremely shakey.

If, in fact, the deities and stories in the Bible are proven to be true, I would believe.

Belief, however does not equal worship or respect. Any all-powerful and all-knowing deity who allowers for suffering, cruelty, and the eternal punishment for not believing something (for which there is no evidence) is not worthy of worship. A finite crime does not deserve an infinite punishment.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by Pauligirl


Does this not indicate that you are waiting for a being to whom you are totally unconnected to jump in and create these conditions. As long as you are waiting for someone else, it will not happen.......maybe "God" could inspire you in such a way, if you seek, such that you will clearly be able to see how to position the dominoes in order to bring such a peaceful state, in order that thy will on earth be a reflection of thy will in heaven. It is up to us to make our dreams a reality, but that requires honest humility and truth seeking without expectation of external affirmation. It is a choice that few have been willing to make, but it is the only choice that we really have, when we become aware of our choices. All other choices lead to degeneration, of specific people, of groups, of societies as a whole.

My problem with this thread is the title: What will it take for you to Believe!? (God).
"Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence. I regard belief as a form of brain damage"
Robert Anton Wilson

I believe I can sum up the answer to your question with one word:

Faith

If you don't have faith, you obviously don't believe. If you have faith, you believe. This is pretty straight forward in my opinion. All of the "facts" from both sides are trying to sway someone using intellectual means. As such, it creates intellectual debates (how can we debate their facts with our own facts?)

You either have faith or you don't. It is as simple as that. No amount of "facts" will sway a person one way or another from what they currently believe... after all, it is faith.

God is a alien some said, I think that too, and I think also they made adam and eve in S.Africa.

Elohim , not just one God, they 'seeded' earth and were here for thousands of years.

So I belive in God's in that aspect of things.
Why they left, or if they left I'm not sure of, and if they will return, fully possible if the Past is correct...