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Is a Near Death Experience Just a Dream?

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posted on Aug, 1 2009 @ 11:38 PM
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When your heart stops beating, there is no blood getting to your brain. And so what happens is that within about 10 sec., brain activity ceases —as you would imagine. Yet paradoxically, 10% or 20% of people who are then brought back to life from that period, which may be a few minutes or over an hour, will report having consciousness. So the key thing here is, Are these real, or is it some sort of illusion?


Link to Time Magazine Article


So it's not a moment; it's a process that actually begins when the heart stops and culminates in the complete loss of the body, the decompositions of all the cells. However, ultimately what matters is, What's going on to a person's mind? What happens to the human mind and consciousness during death? Does that cease immediately as soon as the heart stops? Does it cease activity within the first 2 sec., the first 2 min.? Because we know that cells are continuously changing at that time. Does it stop after 10 min., after half an hour, after an hour? And at this point we don't know.


Now, if you look at the mind, consciousness, and the brain, the assumption that the mind and brain are the same thing is fine for most circumstances, because in 99% of circumstances we can't separate the mind and brain; they work at the exactly the same time. But then there are certain extreme examples, like when the brain shuts down, that we see that this assumption may no longer seem to hold true. So a new science is needed...


I stumbled on this older article in Time magazine and it got me thinking. The part that struck me as really interesting was the fact that a good percentage of the people experiencing 'temporary death' for lack of a better term, claim to have experienced consciousness.

For some reason, my mind jumped to a dream. I've read that the average dream last three to five seconds. I haven't been able to find that anywhere recently, so I would appreciate enlightenment. I did find a questionable source that claimed the longest dream is usually about thirty minutes. I would appreciate someone with more knowledge chiming in.

I don't know about anyone else, but in my dreams, time is incredibly distorted. What in reality only lasts a few minutes can encompass many days in a dream. I don't have any explanation for that, only my own experience.

I've never had an NDE, so I don't know what happens. I wonder if it isn't just a dream. If it seems to go on a lot longer than it really does, because it's just a dream. That it's vivid, and peaceful and reassuring and comforting, because it's just a dream.

I would really appreciate hearing what you guys and gals have to say about that. I'm especially interested in hearing from you folks that have experienced NDEs.


Thanks in advance.




posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 12:34 AM
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Ah and in your dream when time seems distorted you are being let in on the fact that time is an illusion


i know exactly what your talking about here, and i can speak about NDE's since ive never had one.

What ive found the most interesting is how esily your mind can become accustomed to a reality ( be it real or dream ). Its very rare and not without intense concentration that i ever question the reality of a dream ( of course until i wake up ).


its all a very deep rabbit hole


good post SnF

[edit on 2-8-2009 by phi1618]



posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 12:46 AM
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From the countless accounts I read, it seems that the thing that distinguishes NDE's from dreams and the like is the intensity and vividness of the experience. Also the fact that NDE's seem to follow a pattern/story. Such as one will die see themselves then go down a tunnel and see a bright light. Then at the end of the tunnel is some entity that guides you through out the experience. Showing you a replay of your life.

Sure I have dreams where I can go back and live certain days, and meet famous entities and what not. But it seems dreams are so random and get off the main story of the dream somewhere. Like one minute you'll be a pirate fighting a giant octopus, the next moment your at school without any pants.

Of course not everyones NDE follows the classic form, some are horrific/hellish. Some skip certain parts (or possibly they just don't remember). We also have to realize that there is a lot people forget about their NDE's, and same goes with dreams.



posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 03:09 AM
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I subscribe to the being-mind-body model of human existence. In this model, NDEs are easily explained.

Dreams depend on the mind. If your mind were the same as your brain, and your brain went "dead" you wouldn't be able to dream, either. But if the mind is seen as an energy system separate from the body, then that opens up a way of explaining the huge variety of experiences reported in NDEs as well as in dreams.

In the above model of life, the being is ultimate cause and does not actually need a mind or body to experience, communicate, or act. If an NDE includes things like seeing the operating room from above or seeing doctors, medics, or others furiously working to revive the body, then a clean break with the body is most likely what occurred.

These datums have been known and put to use in modern times at least since about 1950. That "modern" science and medicine refuse to take this data into account in any way is just evidence of how brainwashed those disciplines have become. Science and medicine will start to advance again when they begin taking the being-mind-body model seriously.

As reported in other threads and on other sites, where science has begun to consider this model as a possible improvement in our understanding of life, great advances have occurred. Unfortunately, almost all of those projects are currently "top secret."



posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 03:14 AM
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Dream, death, life.
Its all the same.



posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 03:58 AM
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I had an NDE when I was 10.

To cut a long story short I had dabbled in something I shouldn't, but being that age I didn't know any difference.

I was in a field with a friend, and I remember passing out. Next something happened that only in the last 6 months has made me re-think about certain things that previously since reading ATS I would have thought ludicrous.

Anyway, perhaps I will come back to that in a sec. But here is the order of events...

Remember passing out, then blackness.

I see 5-8 lizard like creatures walking upright around me, no noise, but they looked like they were discussing something whilst looking at me.....at this point, please bear with me and read until the end!!!!!!!

Blackness again, then I see multicoloured dots in front of my eyes as though they were a few feet away.

The dots suddenly start to fall downwards, gathering speed so that after a few seconds they look like streaks of light, giving me the impression that I was in a very fast elevator going upwards, although I had no physical sensation of this.

The lights slow down till eventually I just see coloured dots, then blackness.

I suddenly say, in an adult voice "I'm not ready yet". The reply was "we will give you another chance" and with that I see the lights again and I go back down.

When I wake up I have total amnesia, I mean I looked at the grass and didn't even know what it was. It was very scary. I remember looking down the lane and not knowing what anything was, even consciousness itself didn't register.

Gradually, over a period of a few minutes my memory came back and I could see my friend next to me just sitting there. Within 5 or so minutes I felt like nothing had even happened, no side effects, no after effects, nothing. Just a bit shaken up by the experience.

I can say that from my experience, it did NOT feel like a dream. It felt like I was conscious through the episode, I little like a lucid dream I suppose but the difference being that when you dream lucidly you KNOW and REALISE that you are just dreaming. I knew, in that state, that this was for real.

I am 35 now and convinced 99.999% that the soul exists forever after this state of existence. I have sought for answers and found something that rings true after meeting a few people that have had similar experiences. A lot of it has been discussed on this board over the years. Anyway, I can give more info on that if you wish. The reason I don't say 100% is because how can you ever be sure that this was not a normal function of a dying brain? Having experienced it though, I think it was real. I had a feeling of 'all knowledge', as though I knew at that point when I spoke my place in the universal scale of things. I also had a feeling of 'knowing' the wider picture of what I was doing on earth but could not fill in the detail, as though when I came back down this feeling was clouded.

The most challenging part for me was the bit about the lizardmen. Now lets get this straight, I used to ridicule people who go on about reptillians and the like, there are a lot of deluded and scary people on ATS and the mere notion that there are lizard like creatures around us makes me roll my eyes. It was only 6 months or so ago that I suddenly started thinking about my NDE in detail that I made a connection. However, the experience was so real to me and at the time was not influenced by any suggestion of aliens, reptillians, conspiracies etc so if it were just a dream where the hell did that come from? I have to resign myself to the fact that if my experience was 100%, I also have to accept the first part of the experience.

I don't expect anyone to believe it all to be real, I think one can only do this if they experience it themselves. I am not nuts, I am a stockbroker with a good education, a loving family with 2 young daughters and a very stable life.

Sorry for the long post, just felt compelled to add my 2c



posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 07:03 AM
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The bright blinding light has been explained, I recall seeing a documentary about it a year or so ago. Its just something to do with your brain shutting down and how that affects the optics so you see a bright tunnel of light because of the arrangement of cones in your eyes, kind of like an over exposed photograph I think.

As for visions/reptiles and the like, when you have an NDE a massive amount of '___' is released into your brain which is a strong hallucinogenic which would pretty much explain anything like seeing heaven away. '___' has strong connections with sharmanic practises too



posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 02:18 PM
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I appreciate the feedback folks.

I suppose the big question for me...Scientifically, I understand that brain loses its ability to function, and releases chemicals that make dying a little 'easier.' The linked article states that within TEN seconds, the brain starts losing it's function without O2. If the soul is not the center of consciousness, and also THOUGHT, interpreted by the experiences of others, than is the mind simply stretching the time out in your thoughts while you slip into death?

If after ten seconds, your brain starts to die, and a NDE last for what seems like fifteen to twenty minutes, either the brain is thinking a lot faster than what things are happening, in reality, or there is truth in the disconnection of consciousness with the physical mind.

That leads me to another question, perhaps for a different thread...if consciousness is not dependent upon the physical mind, once relieved of the burden of our own brains chemical or physical composition, are we all just as wise and intelligent as the next person? Can wisdom and intelligence be a function of the soul, or is it dependent on your physical brains ability to maintain synaptic pathways and electrolyte balances?



posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by modern
 


I have wondered if what we see when we die is just the brain playing for us what we want, or expect to see.

I think I have probably seen the same documentary, but I wonder if they had documentaries back when the earth was flat, or the center of the universe.



posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 02:23 PM
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reply to post by S4murai
 


I really appreciate your contribution to this discussion, Sam.

I had to read the whole thing a couple times, cuz I aint real quick.
The reptilian visions are very fascinating. My first thought, before I read further down was some sort of suggestion. Have you seen any pictures around these days that would seem to be an accurate represenation of these beings?

I hope I can hear some more.



posted on Aug, 3 2009 @ 06:49 PM
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www.nderf.org...

all the possible questions and answers and analysis and explanations in detail and facts and statistics and cold hard science you'll ever need concerning near death experiences.


And yes, near death experiences are no dream(though keep in midn that dreams are jsut as real as the relaity during waking hours).
Countless amounts of people have clearly described in detail what was going on during the many minutes they were clinically dead,brain dead,heart dead,entirely dead.
yet they could see,hear and experience everything that was going on during that time.Soem immediately after revival and osem a bit later when regained their strength told in detail aobtu what was going on when their body was dead. What nurses/docturs came/went, how they tried to revive them,what they said,sentences,words, what they did..what was happening i nthe surroundings etc.



[edit on 8/3/2009 by Valeri]



posted on Aug, 7 2009 @ 09:12 PM
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reply to post by Valeri
 


Thank you so much for that Valeri. I think that will keep me busy for a couple days. I appreciate it.



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 05:10 PM
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I'm glad I could be of help to you. For you are me and visa versa.
maybe you'd like to read another thread,that encompasses many questions concerning reality and existence.
www.illuminati-news.com... - One thing to keep in midn when reading thoguh is to not judge or doubt whilst reading,and when reading is done entirely(quite a long read) then you can make of it what you will.
The information did resonate with my soul though.



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