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Betrayal Of Christ By Christian Leaders Continues

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posted on Aug, 1 2009 @ 03:05 PM
In a December 17th 2007 article titled, Rick Warren Counsels Jews on Recruiting Congregants, the Christian Post reported that the beloved senior pastor and founder of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest California, a Southern Baptist congregation, "attended a large Reform Jewish gathering last week to share tips on how to build a community."

So, instead of sharing Christ with his Jewish audience, Pastor Warren shared "tips on how to build a community?"

The article went on to say this about Warren's visit:

The "Purpose-Driven" pastor spoke to thousands of Jewish leaders Thursday night at the Union for Reform Judaism's biennial convention in San Diego.
With the holiday season in mind, Warren urged clergy to take advantage of crowded events to publicize other programs so people can get involved in the community through smaller groups.

OK - I'm confused - We have a Christian pastor addressing a Jewish audience - so which holiday are they talking about here - or does it even matter?

"There are some principles that apply regardless of our faith, if it's Jewish or Christian," he [Warren] said at the convention.
One of his principles: "Just be nice to people. Smile."

This is Pastor Rick's message to Jewish leaders - smile and be nice? They needed Warren to come and tell them this? And how are these principles going to gain anyone entry to the Kingdom of God - or is that even relevant?
Is this why Jesus Christ was nailed to a cross - so Christians could proudly share their pragmatic principles with those who reject Him? Are we to conclude from this report that community involvement is more important than eternal life and the forgiveness of one's sins?

After Warren spoke a few minutes at the podium, he sat alongside two popular Southern California rabbis for a casual talk about strengthening congregational life.

Jesus Christ rose from the dead and this "Christian" pastor talks casually to rabbis about "strengthening congregational life" around the synagogue? There is no life apart from Jesus Christ! That's why He called the religious leaders of the day "whited sepulchers" that outwardly appeared beautiful, but inwardly were "full of dead men's bones." (Matthew 23:27)

Why is this double-minded man still pastoring a Southern Baptist church? What does he have to do to get fired? And why do SBC pastors continue to teach and promote his books, his programs, his sermons and his P.E.A.C.E. Plan when apparently being Purpose Driven doesn't even require faith in Christ?

If anyone can be Purpose Driven, then who needs Jesus? Why not just be Purpose Driven and leave it at that - no Christianity - no Christ - no Holy Spirit - no New Testament - just Purpose Driven?

Lucifer said "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." (Isaiah 14:13b-14)

Isn't that being Purpose Driven?

Other advice given by Warren included looking at everything from an outsider's viewpoint, such as simplifying worship terms, making strangers feel welcome, and encouraging interaction.
How about encouraging interaction with the only begotten Son of God by worshipping Him in Spirit and in Truth through repentance and faith? Was there any mention of this at the gathering - or would that hamper recruiting efforts down at the Temple?

"The congregation that really loves people, you have to lock the doors to keep people out," said Warren, whose Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, Calif., is scheduled to host 14 Christmas services this year with an estimated crowd of 45,000 people.
But isn't Warren essentially locking Heaven's doors to those without Christ by denying them the Gospel they so desperately need? How is this a demonstration of love - or do Jews have no need of Jesus?

The truth is, the Lord's harshest rebukes were always directed toward religious leaders who postured themselves as righteous while keeping people out of the Kingdom of God with their own self-serving agendas.

"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in." - Matthew 23:13
Unfortunately, too many of today's pastors, both inside and outside the Southern Baptist Convention have totally invested themselves and their churches into the Purpose Driven paradigm. To speak up now and rebuke Warren publicly would require they admit to their colleagues and congregations that they were wrong about the man and his teachings. And with so much pride at stake and so many careers and ministries in the balance, I dare say there aren't many out there who would be willing to step forward to confess and repent.
My prayer is that the Lord will bless some of them, even if only a few, with the courage and faith to do so while there's still time.

"He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." - 1st John 5:12

posted on Aug, 1 2009 @ 03:20 PM
"You can lead a horse to the water, but you can't make him drink."

Jesus was also about loving your neighbor.

I think what this pastor did was a wonderful thing, and a fine example of what a Christian should be.

Just imagine what the world would be like if people of different faiths could do this all the time?

This pastor should not be fired, but people with views such as yourself should be kicked out of the congregation.

This is my view, based on the fact I live in the deep south and attend a Baptist church.

I think what he did also smacks of attracting more flies with honey.

Brilliant logic, if you think about it.

posted on Aug, 1 2009 @ 03:27 PM
Surprised? All so-called Churches are ultimately bound by an ancient oath to destroy Christ. So sorry to spring this on you. Betrayal is just who they are.

Peter denied Christ. Judas betrayed him for a cash. These were his drinking buddies.

Its just who they are...they cannot help it.

The only true Church is his Wife, literally. Not a bunch of guys in robes.

posted on Aug, 1 2009 @ 03:50 PM

Originally posted by Blanca Rose
This pastor should not be fired, but people with views such as yourself should be kicked out of the congregation.

This is my view, based on the fact I live in the deep south and attend a Baptist church.

I think what he did also smacks of attracting more flies with honey.

So I should be kicked out because I post a story that says pastors should talk more about Christ.
I too live in the deep south (Alabama) and I'm a member of a Baptist church.
As far as "attracting more flies with honey" it's more like attracting more money with self-promotion.

posted on Aug, 1 2009 @ 04:13 PM
reply to post by IDK88

Peter denied Christ. Judas betrayed him for a cash. These were his drinking buddies. Its just who they are...they cannot help it.

Of course they couldn't help it, it was the jesusyahwhe gods idea to begin with.

Judas, the most hated imaginary character that never existed,
Strange isn't it how that if he didn't do what he is alleged to have done this thread would not exist.

posted on Aug, 1 2009 @ 04:20 PM
Hey Joe,

I could say the same about all Christians. I went to over 1800 Churches and Chrisitan non profits to ask for help after my daughter and I became homeless due to a crime committed against us.

They all said no, we don't give to individuals. I did as Jesus instructed, I asked.
In matthew he says, "to those that ask, give, to those that seek to borrow, turn them not away."

Yet here I am still down and a car about to die, with only $400 a month coming in. Trying to sell all I may have left of worth and still no one will help us.

I am a Minister, and I give when ever I can but only to individuals. Yet I can not turn to other Chrisitans anywhere for real help. I am not a Government approved Minister, I was brought to the Ministry by God, I have no church but I counsel or give hope or whatever I can whereever God leads me to.

So you say this about a pastor who has been shown that to be Government approved, ie. Incorporated, despite the Constitution not requireing it, he must do as the Romans do.

If we are going to Judge another let us be clear our own intentions, and from where I am sitting and what I have seen and experienced, there really are very few REAL Christians on Earth today.

God sees what is in your heart, soul, and mind, not in your pocket book, yet millions of supposedly good Christians would never give a dollar to help their fellow man.

Oh I know they give to charities,but it says in the Bible to give, not to some non profit organization that uses 60% to pay the salaries of those that dole out the other 40% in trickle down economic fashion, usually to other non profits.

Charity ( Love) begins at home. So give to those in your family first, then your neighborhood, then your community, the the reat of the world.
To real people, if we are ok giving our hard earned dollar away, why are we not also worthy to recieve it?

When my teen daughter got pregnant, so many told me to kick her out, but in the next breath wanted me to send money to the tsunami victims, this same consciousness wants us to save the world without caring about the individual people on earth.

posted on Aug, 1 2009 @ 04:29 PM

Originally posted by IDK88
Surprised? All so-called Churches are ultimately bound by an ancient oath to destroy Christ. So sorry to spring this on you. Betrayal is just who they are.

That is pure bunkum.
My father was involved high up in the clergy in New Zealand and there was never any question of this.
My brother is involved deeply in religious commentary and history and never in our conversations has anything even remotley accociated with this come up.

Take off your tinfoil hat and taste the reality. It's a bit of a Curate's egg, but some of it is sweet!

posted on Aug, 1 2009 @ 04:53 PM
reply to post by spiritwomyn

I totally agree with what you're saying, my father gave to the church we attended for years more than the 10% thats asked and he was in a car wreck that broke his back in 6 places and crushed his foot and after he got out of the hospital he could hardly get out of bed and when the pastor came to visit, as much as it pained my dad, he asked for help, maybe a collection at church so we could pay the bills and the pastor brushed it off and hurried out, my brother had a drug problem he struggled with for years before it claimed his life 6yrs ago, he tried and tried to get clean and it was so hard so he decided to go back to church for the spiritual help and after church the pastor(same one as above) stands in the doorway shaking hands, thanking you for coming and telling you he loves you and jesus loves you and he wouldn't shake my brothers hand because he had a drug problem, instead of showing extra love, calling him to the side and speaking to him and giving him support, he shuned him away, that in my opinion is not a TRUE christian.

posted on Aug, 1 2009 @ 05:07 PM
reply to post by joe82

Assuming that you're Christian [and you must be judging on your take on Rick Warren], my advice to you is to not let him get in the way and cause you to stumble. Concentrate on your own walk and your relationship with God. Don't dwell on those who are miles away from you who are the "leaders" of our faith, yet don't act like it.

We're only accountable for our own actions. Just one person acting in the way Christ wants can go a huge way. Again, I encourage you to not worry too much about "those in robes" as one put it. Serve Christ. Love God. Live the way Christ wants.

Oh and remember, "They'll know you're my disciples by how you love one another."

[edit on 8/1/2009 by octotom]

posted on Aug, 1 2009 @ 05:23 PM
reply to post by octotom

You are so right. Remeber Jesus said, "what is that to thee, follow thou me." Don't become what you see. That is what we are doing in America today,
The rest of the world wants us to be like them, and instead of standing our ground so they can become like us, free and tolerant of each others differences.

We must not just say, we must do, walk your talk and keep your eyes on your own character. When they see you walk your talk in a victorious way they will know that you walk the Jesus path and not the Anti Jesus path.

I know that God does provide, even if He has to drop it from the sky. He tries to use each of us to help each other, but when the doors are closed, He always finds a window.

posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 06:28 AM
reply to post by joe82

hello There

I understand your frustration,

However take heart as this is Prophecy being fulfilled. As you can see that is its warrens "person" driven rubbish so will others whomever the Lord lays it upon


posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 10:24 AM
One of the first warnings and admonitions was to be leary of false prophets and teachers coming in the name of Christ and claiming an annointing yet deceiving those around them. Also in Matthew chapter 13, the tares are said to be "children of the devil"; they are the generational Satanist who infiltrate the Church body and are spots wrinkles and blemishes that must be removed before the Bride is ready for any kind of "rapture".

This is all about understanding what it means to be an overcomer and to wisely discern the times with the deception that is all around us. Thank God for people like the OP that can identify a tree by the fruits that they produce rather than popularity or position.

posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 10:32 AM
reply to post by joe82

It never ceases to amaze me how Christians can take Jesus' words (if they are his actual words) so out of context. During his life, it was never Jesus' intention to start a new religion. He was in the line of Jewish prophets, and simply desired to reform Judaism. As far as I can tell, he was most similar in message to the minor Jewish Testament prophets, Hosea and Micah.

The phrase "kingdom of heaven" in Jesus' usage never meant some physical location up in the sky with streets of gold and pearly gates. When he invited people into the kingdom (and he invited all people in the kingdom regardless of religious traditions), he was inviting people into a realization of the kingdom within themselves - not something external to themselves. His harsh comments towards the Jewish religious leaders of his day were not designed to ridicule the Jewish religious system, but rather to reform it.

It seems that most Christian, OP included, rely much more on the teachings of Paul than on those of Jesus. I believe Jesus, were he alive today, would gladly sit down with rabbis and speak of ways of growing their congregations, and perhaps transforming them into mini kingdoms of God on earth.


posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 10:33 AM
reply to post by whiterider

Right on my friend, nice post.

posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 10:44 AM
reply to post by pdpayne0418

You're right in saying that Jesus didn't come to start a new religion. He came to fulfill the prophecies of Judaism, specifically concerning the "New Covenant" between Judah and Israel. But, the Jews rejected Jesus' offer of the Kingdom. Because of this, God turned his attention to the Gentiles, as it was prophesied would happen. Jesus himself taught and told the Paul to go to the Gentiles.

When one takes the Bible as a whole, instead of just looking at parts, it makes a lot of sense, and one can see exactly what is going on.

When he invited people into the kingdom (and he invited all people in the kingdom regardless of religious traditions)

Read the Gospels. Jesus totally went only to the Jews [and those of Jewish decent, like the Samarians].

Also, I would say that if Jesus was here on Earth today, he wouldn't "sit down with Rabbi's" and tell them how to grow their synagogues. He would chastise them for not following Judaism as the Bible says it's to be followed. Then, he would do, just as he did 2000 years ago and offer them the Kingdom, with him being their Messiah.

Unfortunately, Jesus isn't going to come to Earth again like he did the first time. When Jesus comes again, he is going to come as a triumphant king. And when he returns, it'll be too late.

[edit on 8/2/2009 by octotom]

posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 01:15 PM
reply to post by octotom

If Jesus showed up today you would crucify him. He will come just like last time, not like you expect. Because to see Him you must know Him. To know someone is to demonstrate that you DO KNOW.

SO why aren't you doing what He said, "Be ye perfect, as you Father in heaven is perfect." "These things I do you can do also." Feed my sheep. Give to those who ask and to those that seek to borrow turn them not away.
Love thy neighbor as thy self. DO unto others AS you would have them DO unto you. Judge not lest ye be judged in like manner.

Heal the sick, raise the dead, preach the gospel (truth)

He taught equality of the gendeers, but hatred of women is still globally allowed and all religions practice some form of it.

SO before you all take the log out of the others eyes, take the log out of your own.

posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 07:44 AM
All religions are pretty much the same. Same guilt, just different holidays.

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