What will it take for you to Stop Believing!? (Deity)

Originally posted by badmedia
Here's some "out there/external" proof for you Turkey.

utah.indymedia.org...

That is funny!!!

reply to post by badmedia


Why is it that I have to come up with examples for them the Badmedia?

Not ONE person has addressed issues like Time Travel to go back in time and see firsthand if there actually was a Jesus or if Jesus was the Son of God or to see if Muhammad was really in touch with a Deity.

Not ONE person has mentioned creating a device to look into the future to see if there is ever a "happening" or a "Apocalypse" or an event where God takes souls up into Heaven or a certain number get saved.

Not ONE person has mentioned an Alien Race making contact with Earth and saying that they have been watching us for a Few thousand years and secretly videotape everything and could answer every question that we have.

Oh wait ONE person did. Me, the Atheist who gave TEN examples of what would satisfy him.

It is frustrating to see people SO SO SO adamant about not giving ONE INCH towards the possibility that what they believe could be false.

In fact it sickens me.

I gave over TEN TEN darn examples of what would provide proof for the existence of a Deity.

Why can't they provide ONE?

Why can't YOU provide one Badmedia? Death? Really man? Not existing to even be able to have the thought is proof to you?

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that could POSSIBLY happen in life could EVER sway you in your beliefs?

I am willing to admit that there could be a Deity. YOU are NOT willing to admit that there could not be a Deity.

Never thought I would be able to say that you to you.

Originally posted by wylekat
reply to post by jon1

 

When you pray for someone and something significant happens before thier eyes, then that person is convinced.

Well then- convince me. You read it right. You're that in with the almighty, you should be able to give me a solid answer to the sit-com mess I have been in.

Convincing begins- Now.

It reminds me about an old, simple and allegedly quite efficient method the Bolsheviks used, I have been told:
So in school class a teacher first explained how stupid it is to believe in God. Then small experiment:
" ...ok children. lets try! everybody closes their eyes, an prays, prays very hard to that capitalists God- Please God give me a candy"...
Of course nothing happens... So afterwards the teacher tells them the same to close their eyes and to ask Camerade Stalin to give them a candy...And what the success of the Soviet Science! The candy is there...
Dont you think that, however it may be hard to accept for us when we dont get our "candies" its because He has more important things to do??

Peace

[edit on 2-8-2009 by ZenOnKwalsky]

reply to post by badmedia


That IS funny. It is kind of sad at the same time that people in this world would consider something like that as a sign.

Or Jesus in a cornflake.

Or Jesus in a burnt piece of Toast.

Or Jesus in a bird turd.

I think you make an excellent point for this thread Badmedia.
Some people are SO willing to accept ANYTHING as a sign of proof. They are SO desperate for Jesus to be real that anything will suit them as evidence.

[edit on 2-8-2009 by TurkeyBurgers]

Originally posted by Melissa101
What will it take for you to Stop Believing!?

Nothing can make me stop believing in God or Jesus Christ. No amount of your so called "logic" nor any amount of your so called "evidenence" will make be stop believing. I pray for you all to seek God's logic and God's evidence.

Having an abundance of earthy knowlege without having knowlege of God is like having a bicylcle with no wheels. You can get on and peddle but you can not go anywhere.... Melissa101

More like a bike with no seat, just a post. You could end up skewered.
Bike with no wheels would make no sense to try and ride.

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand

Originally posted by Melissa101
What will it take for you to Stop Believing!?

Nothing can make me stop believing in God or Jesus Christ. No amount of your so called "logic" nor any amount of your so called "evidenence" will make be stop believing. I pray for you all to seek God's logic and God's evidence.

Having an abundance of earthy knowlege without having knowlege of God is like having a bicylcle with no wheels. You can get on and peddle but you can not go anywhere.... Melissa101

More like a bike with no seat, just a post. You could end up skewered.
Bike with no wheels would make no sense to try and ride.

Exactly!
Now you are getting the idea.
It makes no sense to deny your creator either. Get it?

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
reply to post by badmedia

 

That IS funny. It is kind of sad at the same time that people in this world would consider something like that as a sign.

Or Jesus in a cornflake.

Or Jesus in a burnt piece of Toast.

Or Jesus in a bird turd.

I think you make an excellent point for this thread Badmedia.
Some people are SO willing to accept ANYTHING as a sign of proof. They are SO desperate for Jesus to be real that anything will suit them as evidence.

[edit on 2-8-2009 by TurkeyBurgers]

This is where you are semi-confused turkey burgers.

Exactly what I am going to say, is exactly what I mean...ok?

Jesus, the name, is not a name (though it is), it is an action that when you fulfill, you are "Jesus" therefore real and "dwelling in the midst of men".

It means, again action, "Self Existent Salvation". Anyone denying this, is denying themselves. This is why all men are saved IN this name. Denying it is suicide. You are the Faith of the name or the "Work" of it. It is as real as you are.

Peace

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
Why is it that I have to come up with examples for them the Badmedia?

Not ONE person has addressed issues like Time Travel to go back in time and see firsthand if there actually was a Jesus or if Jesus was the Son of God or to see if Muhammad was really in touch with a Deity.

Actually, that wouldn't matter to me at all. Even if you were to prove Jesus and such is fake, it wouldn't matter to me at all. I don't care if Jesus was a real person, it is the understanding and truth he speaks that I like, and I know where that understanding comes from. So for me, I just recognize the father within him. And if he is not "real", then whoever wrote the story obviously knew the father.

Plus, time travel is another topic. You can't go back in time to the same timeline you are on. By default, the time you went back too would be different than the original. As the new time period includes those things, but also the newly added thing. The universe/time isn't linear.

Not ONE person has mentioned creating a device to look into the future to see if there is ever a "happening" or a "Apocalypse" or an event where God takes souls up into Heaven or a certain number get saved.

You don't even understand what that means. Do you know what the word "Apocalypse" means?

Not ONE person has mentioned an Alien Race making contact with Earth and saying that they have been watching us for a Few thousand years and secretly videotape everything and could answer every question that we have.

Ever heard of Hollywood?

Oh wait ONE person did. Me, the Atheist who gave TEN examples of what would satisfy him.

All of which was flawed.

It is frustrating to see people SO SO SO adamant about not giving ONE INCH towards the possibility that what they believe could be false.

Could I convince you that 4+9=302? Would you budge an inch on that?

In fact it sickens me.

Right, because you do not understand. It's like that math question, when you understand you just know.

I gave over TEN TEN darn examples of what would provide proof for the existence of a Deity.

And you would be foolish if you actually believe those things.

Why can't they provide ONE?

Because maybe there isn't one?

Why can't YOU provide one Badmedia? Death? Really man? Not existing to even be able to have the thought is proof to you?

I am god, and I am arguing with myself. So the only way for me to believe I didn't exist, would be not to exist. As I asked you before, what would it take for you to believe you didn't exist?

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that could POSSIBLY happen in life could EVER sway you in your beliefs?

Nope, because it's not belief, it's understanding. I do however constantly look for ways to better express that understanding, and learn new things all the time.

I am willing to admit that there could be a Deity. YOU are NOT willing to admit that there could not be a Deity.

Never thought I would be able to say that you to you.

Then you assumed wrong. You know what the difference between me and you is? I understand your view. I've had your view. I've made the same arguments you make. I've thought the same things you thought.

But you do not at all understand my view.

reply to post by ZenOnKwalsky

Dont you think that, however it may be hard to accept for us when we dont get our "candies" its because He has more important things to do??

Oh, I know! All those rich, affluent people who need their new cars, their SUVs, their next little bastard brought into the world! Why, I am such a SELFISH LOSER for asking for a companion and a life. Whatever was I thinking?

Well, I am a (non)believer. Yup, there's a force, and it's just plain bad.

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers

Or Jesus in a bird turd.

Well, at least with that one, it's ironically true... Too bad Jesus lands on the heads of those who really DO need their lives bettered, and end up with... well a turd. What sucks is when you battle all your life, and still get- a turd.

reply to post by Republican08


Why do you mix religion with a higher power? Why is your human ego so large as to not believe that a higher power than us exists?

Why would any event or ideal sway anyone's belief in a higher power?

You find God/higher power from within. It will guide you in this mysterious world if you let it and it needs no religious attachment.

Why are you so frustrated with the belief in God? Your frustration should be in the religions that have twisted God into the controlling thing we see it as today.

You should be frustrated and angry that we have lost so much of our personal power from the ones that want to keep it all for themselves. I have personally stepped away from the way most modern people think and have regained a fraction of this personal power and feel it and am beginning to understand it.

You ever wonder why most great wisdom comes from those that went off into the wilderness (away from man) to become hermits and then come back and give great wisdom to mankind that is passed down through thousands of years?

You have not pondered and thought for yourself enough, just parroting what others you think know or you would never ask such an unanswerable question.

I know one thing. Something big is coming I don't know what it is but we are on the edge of something great some kind of shift in our basic understanding. I can feel it, cant you? Maybe you can start by turning the TV off and begin your inner sojourn.

The problem here is a failure to communicate!!
Agnostics / athiests say show me proff. Love to. However, I am not God.

You should be saying that to him. Nobody else but him. If he doesn't then beleive as you will. When he does. Try to explain to others why you believe.

peace

[edit on 2-8-2009 by awakentired]

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers


I can say with the time travel thing that no one has mentioned time travel because it is impossible, most likely. And besides, no true believer would want to travel back in time to see their beloved savior. Why? Because they would be scared that everything they THINK they know about him is false. Historically, he was a documented prophet. Historically, he was a Jew. A fanatic Jew. But history and FACTS cannot tell us what he REALLY taught. Only the bible can, and we all know the bible has gone through many "Revisions" and "Translations" by the catholic church over the past 2 millenia.

In reply to the OP. I would say that to make people stop believing in an "Imaginary" friend (as he so elegantly put it) would take just what was discussed. Time travel. I think they would find Jesus was more like the Buddha than the Christ we know. Teaching self enlightenment and that we are all sons and daughters of creation. (not saying there had to be a creator) Because we can watch bacteria reproduce by splitting it cells. Therefore the next cell was created by the previous cell. No deity involved.

Here we go. Time to play the Rehash game.

Here is the BIG list of what Deity Believers are willing to accept as what it would take for them to stop believing. That IS the title of the Thread a Deity.

1) asmall89- Did not answer the question. Explained what they believed.
2) Pappa_Bear- wrote down "John 20:29" No answer to OP's question
3) Wookiep- No way Deity could ever be disproven
4) randyvs- Nothing could disprove deity
5) eMachine- Explained what they believe and they do not know what it is
6) gwynnhwyfar- I am not sure what gwynnhwyfar believes, but no answer to OP's question was given

I am not going to include Agnostics beliefs from here on out because they have no belief in a Deity

7) Wachstum- Explained belief but did not answer OP's question, changed subject
8) DarksDeception- Explained what they believed, posted 5 Bible versus and ignored the question
9) kettlebellysmith- Nothing would change mind.
10) prepare4it777- Nothing would change mind
11) KOGDOG- Said a guardian angel saved him/her, ignored the question

MAGIC number 12 how I love you!

12) Eitimzevinten after like 4 paragraphs this poster DOES in fact give an answer! Pay attention this is how you do it correctly!

"I'd have to see everybody who believes "I'm just believing in a fairy" to let it go." -Eitimzevinten

13) watchtheashes- Wrote down "Luke 18:8" ignored the question
14) AshleyD- "Nothing. There is absolutely nothing you can do at all whatsoever."
15) SpiritoftheNightSky- Mentioned a belief in God. That was it. Did not answer OP's question.
16) infolurker- Like half a page about Atheism. Mentioned nothing of his/her own beliefs and failed to answer the OP's question
17) jean59- Believes in G-d. Did not answer OP's question but DID say it made him/her think. (which is important)
18) nunya13- Believes in a "Higher Power" but did not say what would make them not believe in one.
19) Freenrgy2- Nothing will make them stop believing

20) Badmedia- your beliefs are more complex than everyone else combined I will say you are a deep thinker and you always make me think when you post. I aint an Aussie or a Brit but Cheers Mate. You are being put down as Nothing will change belief. You also said Death would convince you so I am not sure.

21) wylekat- Says "there's something out there, and it aint nice." No answer to OP's question.
22) Jim Scott- Explained beliefs, ignored OP's question

You get a half point for trying with your "God saying he does not exist."
23) ZenOnKwalsky- Death and no Heaven or God to say that God does not exist

24) jon1- Nothing will convince them
25) awakentired- Believes in God but no answer to OP's question
26) Pathos- Christian, Bible, God, etc. No answer to OP's question-UPDATED later on in the thread Pathos said they he/she was not even sure of his/her own beliefs so I am going to place you in the Agnostic bin.

BONUS! Another person to give an example of EVIDENCE!

27) fockewulf190- "When atheists can show that DNA can be generated by the nuclear fusion process within stars (I won´t even bother with the origins of the stars themselves), then I´ll raise an eyebrow." -fockewulf190

28) Conclusion- "nothing is the best answer i can give." I am not sure if this person is neutral or not, tough to tell what they believe.
29) Maj35t1cI2- Nothing will change this posters belief
30) letthereaderunderstand- Posted 5 Bible quotes but is not Christian but did say that nothing would change their mind about belief in a "Deity" or what this poster considers to be a higher intelligence or what have you (not to insult your beliefs etthereaderunderstand it is just that they are complex)
31) mooseinhisglory- Nothing could change belief in Deity
32) gYvMessanger Also has complex beliefs but Nothing will change those beliefs
33) fockewulf190- Believes in Complex God. No answer to OP's question
34) LoneGunMan- Belief in a Higher Power. Ignored OP's question

Out of 34 people who have somewhat of a belief in a Deity that I can recognize we have

This is PATHETIC!

Out of 34 people who actually participated with some type of "religion" or "belief system" that I will consider involving a Deity we have

12 people who say that NOTHING will change their beliefs

18 people who ignored the OP's question

Here is where you all stand

1) Everyone who has faith to all lose faith.
2) God saying that he does not exist.
3) Death and no afterlife.
4) Stars creating DNA
5) Nothing will change belief

Weak Sauce. I busted out 12 reasons BY MY SELF that would convince me of the existence of a God.

I AM DISAPPOINT!

34 people and we have 5 answers between ALL of you?

Wow am I posting on ATS? I thought that I was on ATS?





[edit on 2-8-2009 by TurkeyBurgers]

The fact of the matter is, or so I believe, is that there is no one way you can convince the "lunatics" as you call them to believe there is no god or deity out there. Unless, you know, there was a time machine or by some other traumatic event( it has happened before) they go through causes them to change their views on life.
I believe that the gods existed or were made up to teach or remind people of the values of life to live by. What I mean by that is the bible, or I've been told, was made to teach people to live by certain rules. Sounds fine right? Who wouldn't create a good-nature book to help people live by moral rules? The problem comes when people, the lunatics as you would refer them, take it waay too literally. Only some mind you.
I mean look at the Greeks, they were a group of people who had those gods to believe in something. They needed something to believe in, and thats the basis of the bible. I think in this era we live in though has become so effed up that we have people telling us that we should all live like this or else. Quite honestly I hate that as well as anyone else, but I ignore it.

I think the best thing to do, is to ignore anyone who tries to preach to you or asks you to prove to them that god does not exist. Trying to make someone believe something entirely different after they have been taught it for many years( I'm guessing?) is like trying to convince your parents that the water you drink will kill you( okay bad metaphor, but I think you get the point).
Ignore these people and your life will be much better, besides you can walk away knowing that these ignorant fools will continue to screw themselves over...well hopefully

Anyways, I think I rambled on enough about this!

for me to stop believing, i demand you take the contents of my nuts and then try to prove to me that i never had nuts while hanging my nuts that i just had right in front of me, while of course, at the same time, asking me why my nuts never existed and being like prove my nuts existed after you stompted them into the ground or baked them into a pie.

reply to post by heyo


Mr. Heyo, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may your chosen Deity have mercy on your soul if you have a belief in such a thing.

What is the biggest sin that a christian can commit?
What is the only sin that there is no forgiveness for?

Denying God..

Maybe this is why the question is not being answered.
Or does the OP already know this?

This thread will just go around in circles with the usual arguments and lack of understanding about God.

reply to post by jon1


That is hardcore. To not even be able to question what you believe without being tortured in Hell for eternity?

Does not leave too many outs. Believe or Hell.

I think Christians Morals are better than Christianities Gods morals. I think Christians would hesitate to do that to another human. Torture them for all eternity in Hell for simply not believing?

My Morals are better than that. I think everyone on this Board has morals better than that.

There are not many things that I could think of that justify the use of torture on another human being.






[edit on 2-8-2009 by TurkeyBurgers]

reply to post by awakentired

I doubt that even if the Utube were recorded in high definition in broad daylight that you or your ilk would believe.

Why would such an earth shattering medical marvel be restricted to just the one incident and posted on you tube lol?

There's plenty of xtians around where I live and ample supply of children with amputated limbs, who needs you tube when we cans see the evidenc with our own eyes.

Or are you saying that if jesus did decide to regenerate an amputated limb he would only be doing the one?

Just another thing to debunk and not believe it untill you see it with your own 2 eyes.

Yup that's right, I require evidence not too much to ask is it ?
It's all well and good hearing at church how jesus cured a man's gout or a old woman with crippling arthritis suddenly going for a jog. Xtians go around every Sunday evening with these silly hearsay stories, they'll believe anything their pastor tells them.

What's the problem with providing evidence for extraordinary claims ?

If you survive the coming trajedies then you may believe or you just may be more peeved at god.

Here we go, typical xtian threat tactics, you fail to provide any evidence of the reality of your claims, so you try and threaten me with another unprovable element of your delusion.


What tragedies dude ? Are you saying that jesus won't make himself known to me by helping a child out an regenerating an amputated limb. But instead jesus will make himself know to me by killing millions of children that don't believe in him through lack of evidence?

In any case it will not change his plan. 6000 years of man's self rule showing himself as incompetent to the challenge. Like you said bus loads of innocents are being blown up.... Blame that on god? he didn't do the act.

I see you tried very hard to somehow Incorporated the 6000 year delusion into the deabte, go on I'll bite just for entertainment value -

Ok Are you implying that man has been about for but 6000years ? Who the hell tells you these fairy tales ?

If god wanted a bunch of mindless zombies then he would'nt have gone through the effort to create a path for man to choose his side and viewpoint on life in the cosmos.

Well clearly "God" is getting a bunch of mindless zombies, called christians lol
For an adult to believe that a man lived inside the belly of a fish,without any corroborating evidence purely because another man wrote it in a book is pretty bloody mindless !!

Man was given free will. Free to worship the creator and free to worship man and his creations. You choose what you will and I"ll do the same.

Doing something under threat of physical violence/death/ or loss is not free will my friend it is control by fear.

If it were possibly for you to perform an action without the alleged omnipresent creator of all that there is being aware of the outcome of the action, then that would negate it's omnipresence.

You simply cannot act in a way that you were not designed to act, without bringing into play another impetus other than the creator, free will is part of your delusion my friend.