What will it take for you to Stop Believing!? (Deity)

reply to post by Republican08


Read my signature. As for your question, nothing is the best answer i can give. It is a knowing that drives the believer. I use to not know, but i would never say that there wasn't. Its something you have to find for yourself. I think people tend not to believe for many different reasons. The truth is what everyone seeks, but everyone is not willing to accept the truth. Everything you see can be used to prove that there is a Creator.

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgersWhat if a bunch of different species of Aliens came to Earth and showed video of what really happened throughout history and proved that every religion was false? Would you consider this evidence?

Out of all of your questions, I find this to be an interesting query. While I was talking to several religious friends, I had another similar question.

What if a portion of our biological makeup traveled to Earth on a meteor?
Not only does that question presents a plausible truth, but it also creates a serious of conundrums for religious groups. If you remember our world history, humanity thought the world was flat. We also thought that the Earth was at the center of the universe. Imagine if we woke up tomorrow and someone said a portion of us was from planet xyz. Philosophically one could conclude that life started on Mars, and then through a series of catastrophic events it landed on Earth.

I think both questions answer that other famous one. Are we ready to know that we are not alone? From a religious point of view, I don't think society could handle that type of truth. Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, and Judeo followers would self-destruct.

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
What would it take for me to start believing in a Deity? I would need to have the God that is being proven do a few things.

1) Be able to tell me out loud exactly what I was thinking in my head.

So if someone can read your thoughts, you would think that person was god?

2) Be able to tell me the exact recollection of events that happened to me when I was alone at parts of my life.

So if someone can read your memory, you would think that person was god?

3) Be able to do these things with other people being present and to also do these things to the people present as well.

So you feel the need to validate yourself through other people?

3) Be able to defy the laws of Physics in front of me...such examples that I would be willing to accept are making fire burn in a controlled environment where no fuels exist. Turning Solid metals into liquids and gases in a controlled environment with no visible means.

So you will leave yourself vulnerable to technology?

4) Transport matter instantly from one spot to another, make matter completely disappear, duplicate matter, Create matter out of thin air ALL in controlled environments.

Again, things in which technology can someday provide. So you openly leave yourself open for deception.

5) Make an amputee's limb grow back in front of a full team of Doctors, Scientists and specialists in a controlled environment.

Once again, open to technology. You are simply asking for "magic" in your examples.

6) Bring the dead back to life in front of a team of Doctors, Scientists and specialists in a controlled environment.

Also same thing as the others.

None of those things prove god, and could easily be disregarded as advanced technology.

You want to see advanced technology, take a look at your own body. You have cells that are self reproducing nanobots which read the DNA configuration code in order to bring about a complete and working machine, which is in many cases able to repair itself without outside intervention.

And despite all the advances of men, we are still no where near touching the same level of technology which people think just happened to happen. Of course, is it even possible for man to get beyond that of the nature that is provided? And as long as they are looking to that nature and only that nature, the answer is no. In order to get beyond that, at some point someone has to look beyond it.

Just say this in the future - If god wanted me to believe, i would. Because that is the real truth.







[edit on 8/1/2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia


Very nice answers....

reply to post by badmedia


TOUCHE!

But a reverse dark matter touche back your way!

Like I said I expect ALL of those things to be done under Controlled Environments with conditions placed upon them in Front of the best team of Scientists Doctors and Specialists we can get together.

You are telling me if a being came to Earth and could raise the dead, read your mind, tell you what happened when you were 7 years old and ran away, healed every amputee on Earth at once, Turned your pet cat into a talking Miniature dragon all in front of a team of thousands of experts who are analyzing everything that they are doing and checking to make sure that they are not using technology to do these things you would not believe them?

Brother I would be rejoicing if they also told me there was an after life and there was a Soul.

I would shout it from the rooftops hallelujah praise the Deity!

TOUCHE mon sherry.

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers


If someone did all those things, would I believe they were god? No. I just gave you the reasons why too. A being with advanced technology might easily be able to do such things.

Understanding > all those things.

If someone did those things, I would ask them how many dimensions are they able to see at once.

You aren't going to find proof of god "out there". The closest thing to it would be to simply look in the mirror.

I don't need no diving rod,
to show me where the water lies,
And I don't need no preacher to show me god,
I can see him, shining in your eyes.



[edit on 8/1/2009 by badmedia]

Heck I will add even more to the list JUST for you Badmedia ye of little faith!

-The Deity cannot be able to be harmed by any means as far as projectiles, Chemicals, Temperature, Lack of oxygen, Starvation, Dehydration, Being Crushed by force or a weight, exposure to radiation, exposure to pressure, and any other way we could think of to injure the Deity ALL in a controlled environment under observation from the best and largest team of scientists doctors and experts that we can put together.

-The deity must be able to rearrange the location of the planets and moons and even go so far as to be able to arrange the Stars in the Universe to form different images.

-The Deity must be able to make the Sun dance through the sky to a song of my choosing kind of like those dancing bass plastic fish.

-The Deity must be able to Rapidly advance evolution in a species in a controlled environment in front of the best team of Scientists Experts and Scholars we have.

-The Deity must be able to answer ANY and ALL questions that we can pose to it regarding Science, Mathematics, History, Art, Music or any known or unknown events that have ever happened in history.

-The Deity must be able to accurately 100% of the time be able to flawlessly predict the future for any event that we can propose to it

Now THOSE have to at least pull SOME frigging weight with you Badmedia! If Not I WILL try harder and bust out even harder things to use as examples!

As of yet I am still waiting for your answer as to what you would consider as proof to get you to NOT believe anymore

Not answering the Main Question of the thread makes Turkey a sad poster

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers


What would it take for you to no longer believe you exist? That is what the question is really asking.

There is no way to answer the original question. It wrongly takes the assumption it's impossible to know god, and thus it is possible to not believe.

But here, you want an answer?

Death. And not just death of the physical, but death of everything. To where I am just not conscious and do not exist. That is what it would take.



[edit on 8/1/2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia




That is pure failure. I busted my butt to provide like ten or more different examples of what would provide validation for me and you are either so lazy or unimaginative as to not be able to come up with ONE SINGLE THING?

Did the Dog eat your post?

Are you scared to write it down for fear or retribution from The Father?

Come on man. You and I BOTH know there is something that would provide evidence to you.

I know you told me of a time that you had an experience where you found what you describe as "The Father". What if your experience could be proven to be inaccurate or false?

Where would you stand?

Oh, and all your examples are "out there", and as such none of them are valid to me. Technology can do any of those things.

But the part about being able to answer any question. That does actually happen, but instead of answering the question, you are just directly given the understanding so you know the answer for yourself. Now, does that really compare to those things you listed?

reply to post by badmedia


What if your experience in finding what you describe as "The Father" were proven to be Inaccurate or incorrect?

Where would you stand?

OP, I agree with most of your points- But I don't think this was the right way to go about expressing them.

Er, well, I agree with your points on there not being a God.

I don't believe it's appropriate to call someone's beliefs out in the way you did.

Likewise, religious followers shouldn't protest against atheism the way they do.

You can still debate the subject without ending up ranting and raving about it.

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers


Smarter I would hope? Thought the question was what would it take, rather than what after.

The "father" is just a perspective. It's not like he calls himself the "father", it's just an expression. Any definition is honestly by default wrong. Any labels and such are just labels. Gotta see beyond such things, when you are talking of the spiritual and such, you are talking about things which aren't defined in those ways. In terms of math, it would be like looking at the actual understanding/equation, rather than the specific variables that are used to express it within creation itself. Labels are just variables. Your time, your place, your life are just variables of an equation. And thus to look "out there" is to just see the variables and be blinded to the truth of the equation.

So father/son are just labels used to describe the relationship between the 2 perspectives, of which 1 is of limited perception(you), and the other is that which is much greater and is all knowing(father/god). Both are in the end the same person.

But it's not just me, it's all. The only real difference is what is included in each individuals experience and the level of recognition of it. Thus, if god wanted you to know as part of your individual experience, you would know.

Nevertheless, you should still realize that just because something hasn't come across your perspective and individual experience doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just because it's not proven in your experience doesn't mean there aren't experiences that do include it. And should the time come when it is part of your experience, then it will come.

It is the father within that gives you consciousness and the ability to understand and so forth, and to even think about these things.

So the question is really asking me what would it take to believe I didn't exist. And that would be death of being/soul/consciousness.



[edit on 8/1/2009 by badmedia]

Nothing will make me stop. You sound like you've got personal problems if you care that much what other people believe. I consider myself pretty intelligent, 130 IQ, good body, healthy living style. I know in my heart God is real and you are the definition of evil if you want to take that thought away from anyone. Have a great life and God bless.

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
reply to post by Eitimzevinten

 

CONGRATULATIONS! You are the ONLY SINGLE person of religious faith to ANSWER THE QUESTION that the OP asked!

Awww common Turkeyburgers! How is "Personally republican08, I won't stop believing in God because I have witnessed God." Not an answer to the question the OP asked?? :p You may not *like* the answer, but it's an answer, and without being a form of a quesion!

reply to post by Wookiep


You are not being fair to me here Wookie! There IS more that I put in that post that you are quoting and ignoring!

Attack the OP or attack Atheism.

Change the subject and completely ignore the question.

Simply state what they believe without any attempt to answer the question.

Say there is nothing that will sway them.

HERE is the clincher! In order for me to explain what it would take for me to believe in a Deity I have to use extreme examples because lets face it a Deity is pretty extreme.

BUT in order for someone of religious faith to pose that same question they fall back on the argument of "Those examples are ridiculous, using aliens as an example or technology we do not possess!"

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
I am kind of interested to see Republican's question answered by ANYONE.

What type and amount of evidence would it take for someone of Religious faith to stop believing?

The Answer?

Here is the Answer for the "Christian" God.

Truth....

Anything you know should be an example. When I say that, I don't mean things you've seen in images (Space, TV, Movies, even pictures) or such things as theories of any kind as they can lead you falsely, so in those things it is better to say "I don't know" and to make yourself not accountable, because if you do, it is required of you. It is better to Not judge something you don't know.

For example, i've seen many UFO's and can speak of what I've seen, but for me to say they are "Alien" is something I do not know. Super easy really....people make it hard.

You know things for certain, such as the sky is blue, or I have a mother and father.....things you absolutely know, those things are truth. Truth is witnessed of itself and shown to be true of itself.

No one can see the living God at all, because God is ALL that are living.

Eze 18:4 Behold, they are all My souls. As the soul of the father, also the soul of the son, they are Mine. The soul that sins, it shall die.

The last part would be understood better as, "The soul that dies, sinned"

Also, if people would read the bible in the original languages...their fantasies would quickly disappear, such as..."Invisible God", "the man of Jesus", "Miracles"...and other such frauds that lead men to death.

Here are some verses for Christians and Non Christians alike. Stop believing in things that true faith has not produced....faith without works is dead.

Joh 3:11 Truly, truly, I say to you, That which we know, we speak; and that which we have seen, we testify. And you do not receive our testimony.
Joh 3:12 If I tell you earthly things, and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

Rom 1:20 For the unseen things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things made, both His eternal power and Godhead, for them to be without excuse.

Col 2:18 Let no one condemn you, delighting in humility and worship of the angels, pushing into things which he has not seen, being puffed up by the mind of his flesh without cause,

Finally...Joh 8:24 Therefore, I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins.

Jesus literally and figuratively (double witness) means "Self Existent Salvation", therefore if one does not believe this name is to all men, waiting for a fantasy and Anti-Christ savior image to swoop out of the sky with a magic horse rather then the life is in you and in your blood, you will die in your sins. Only by sacrifice of yourself, to bear young and put forward life, will you "See" your life go forward.....and a child shall lead them because children are always the head of the body of God. Innocent having no sin.

True since day ONE....Needing no Christian, Jew, Hindu, Bahai, Islamic, Nor RELIGIOUS witness....PERIOD.

Peace

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
reply to post by Wookiep

You are not being fair to me here Wookie! There IS more that I put in that post that you are quoting and ignoring!

I see your point here, and I didn't ignore!

Attack the OP or attack Atheism.

Didn't do that, I praised his thread in the first paragragh of my first response, I respect these kind of threads.

Change the subject and completely ignore the question.

I didn't change the subject, I simply provided my own insight to the subject before my answer!

Simply state what they believe without any attempt to answer the question.

I kinda stated what I believed...but I did answer the question

Say there is nothing that will sway them.

This I *did* do, but I answered why.. I don't see how that is wrong. It would be the same outcome if I asked republican08 the same question, except reversed it.

HERE is the clincher! In order for me to explain what it would take for me to believe in a Deity I have to use extreme examples because lets face it a Deity is pretty extreme.

Ok, I see your point of view here, but this thread wasn't to convince *you* of what would make you believe in a diety.

BUT in order for someone of religious faith to pose that same question they fall back on the argument of "Those examples are ridiculous, using aliens as an example or technology we do not possess!"

Just the same as when a person who believes says "because I've witnessed it" is rediculous to you....


Anyway, it's all good!

Edit for clarity: my first response was here: www.abovetopsecret.com...



[edit on 1-8-2009 by Wookiep]

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand


Simply state what they believe without any attempt to answer the question.



Yes good sir that is exactly what you just did. The question still stands because you made absolutely no effort to answer it. You tap danced around it, you attempted to use logic to reassure yourself that you do not have to even admit the question exists.

In this thread you DO have to answer it. Just answer the question. It is cool that you just explained what you believe.

NOW here is where we learn.

Everything you just said is ALL based on "The Bible".

SO I ask you good sir if we could prove that the Bible was not accurate would that be proof to you that your beliefs are flawed and need to be reassessed?

[edit on 1-8-2009 by TurkeyBurgers]

reply to post by Wookiep


Here is the question I have for you (and by the way I am getting sick of doing everyone on ATS's homework here )

If it could be proven to you that what you witnessed was a manipulation of a false image or a hallucination or an alien mind game or WHATEVER would THAT be enough for you to stop believing?