US to Israel: Leave the military option against Iran to us

Originally posted by audas

Originally posted by john124

Originally posted by Solomons
reply to post by john124

 

Im just going to take your last point on Iranians wanting to overthrow the supreme leader.It's a simple numbers game here.Are you saying the majority of the 70 million iranians explicitly stated they want the supreme leader overthrown? yes or no? or was it just groups you saw on the tv and news? Lets just throw a number out which is nowhere near the actual figure.Two and a half million iranians were chanting they wanted rid of the supreme leader and not protesting about the presidential election.Thats 3.5% of the population.Of course we will never know if the majority do or not as we haven't asked them all,but you are stating they do which is being untruthful.

[edit on 1-8-2009 by Solomons]

I have discussed this with my Iranian colleagues who have a little insight into what's going on. They have indicated that the general mindset is against the regime, and that even in poorer areas of Tehran that are traditionally Ahmadinejad even voted Mousavi in large numbers.

Recently memebrs of the opposition organised their supporters to switch on various electrical appliances at the same time, such as irons, kettles etc. This led to power cuts throughout the country, and was timed during Ahmadinejad's speeches on state television. This even happened in the poorer areas.

This leads me to conclude that the majority are with the opposition. You may disagree, but that's on very little basis. And you seem to have just assumed most likely without reading my previous posts that I have concluded this all from media sources alone. Please refrain from making a strawman argument, whether inadvertent of not. As it's silly, and we all know we cannot make these conclusions based on western media alone.

I think it's also fair to say that only a portion of those against the regime would be willing to protest, therefore if given an opportunity more would flood the streets. And 10-20 million would probably suffice for a revolution.

It would be naive to assume that every supporter has been out at the same time. It is more logical to conclude that different supporters have been out at different times, much in the way supporters at football matches would go to different games. The only similarity being that of course. And potentially every Mousavi voter could be a future protestor or integral part of the revolution.


[edit on 1-8-2009 by john124]

Sorry but this is just garbage - the facts stand - UK and US polls PRIOR to the election showed a massive victory to Ahmedinijad - it was MOUSAVI who claimed the election victory within minutes of the polls closing.

It is pointless to argue with somebody as ignorant as you. This poll was from weeks earlier. On election day polls suggested Mousavi to win, and even in poorer areas. And I've already provided adequate explanation go along with that.

Further polls and recounts have ALL indicated that Ahmedinijad would have one - no one is claiming this as false except you - the only issue at stake EVER was why Ahmedinijad claimed victory by so much - DEPSITE the fact that MOUSAVI had claimed victory within minutes of the polls closing.

Incorrect again, Mousavi was told to prepare his victory speech before a coup d'etat by Khamenei prevented this. Ahmadinejad was announced the winner shortly after this when so few votes had been counted, and the winner could not have been known at this stage. Note Mousavi was told to prepare a speech not to announce he had won, only indications at early stages told us he had won.

Further Symore Hersche of the New Yorker broke the story 12 months ago that Congress had passed a HALF BILLION dollar grant to the CIA for covert activity aimed at destabilising the regime during the elections using the Iranian Moujahidine - FACT.

Not really.... and you just fall for Islamic regime propaganda. You try and asssociate something that's barely evidence and expand it into actual CIA involvement. It's only conjecture you are making there.

Further it has also been broken that the missing 12 billion in cash from the Iraqi rebuilding fund was syphoned off to be used by the CIA for destabilising Iran - FACT.

No... more conjecture!

FURTHER it has been known that the CIA spammed the Iranian students with messages - the phone numbers were supplied by Mousavis MAIN BACKER a man who acutally OWNS the universities in Iran - FACT.

What a load of rubbish! You link rumours with conjecture. Do you know this person directly? do you have photos of text msgs etc???? Where are they????

CIA's main function - one more time - MAIN FUNCTION - is covert operations and regime change - this is their charter - they are also majority outsourced.

Motive doesn't always provide proof!

I have just completed a masters dissertation which included operations of the secret intelligence operations of the united states and united kingdom - constantly reminding people that you "know" someone in Iran simply says to me you are short on intel - and devoid of facts.

Good for you.... but you haven't provided any evidence of CIA involvement.

Will gladly supply links to all of this if you are completely incapable of using GOOGLE (have done so repeatedly on this site - they are available) - but remember when I do put them up you are going to look real stupid - this is an opportunity to educate yourself without being thoroughlyand publicly embarrassed....

You can provide them whenever you wish, but I fully expect them to be Islamic propaganda or some alternate blogs which I have already digested.

You cannot beat knowing people directly who are in Iran on the ground, reading on the Internet doesn't help you learn about these types of situations. Only having contacts gives you more direct knowledge than what you learn from the media.

I find it amusing how you compare GOOGLING to actual real contacts within the country who are families of friends I have based over in my country, and they are in contact almost constantly. And some of them even travelled over here to stay for a few months. You have no idea whatsoever!!!

And from your further posts it demonstrates to me that you only deal in conjecture, and you fail to see the problem of nuclear weapons in the hands of religious extremists.

OK we want to disarm nukes entirely in the world.... but how do we do that when some countries are actively trying to build or acquire them. When Iran has a responsible govt. with UN inspectors allowed in for a number of years into all areas, then the world will accept Iran to have nuclear energy, but not nuclear weapons. US and Russia must make attempts to disarm, but how do you convince them to go through with disarmament when other countries are seeking nukes!

You have a nice little mindset and world view that fits your reality only. Fortunately for us, the world is much more complicated, and I will not even attempt to determine what the future holds for us all, and especially the middle east. But I can say there is not one shred of evidence for CIA involvement, apart from motive. But alone that is worthless.

[edit on 3-8-2009 by john124]