It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

How did we ever get to the point that employers were expected to pay for your health insurance?

page: 3
2
<< 1  2    4  5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 10:52 PM
link   
reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


have to agree with you that its just nonsence to turn a blind eye agains cheep/free medical service thats just as good as the costly one (the us system)

the us health system as it is just reminds me of "pearls before swine".

im gratefull i live in a country where i dont have to worry about the monthly cost of my familys or my neighbours health.




posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 10:52 PM
link   
reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


See the point you seem to miss is yeah it is free to you,, but somebody is paying those 50k/month medical bills through higher taxes. So I guess it is fair to you that your fellow citizens must pay your bills for you.



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 11:01 PM
link   

Originally posted by grapesofraft
reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


See the point you seem to miss is yeah it is free to you,, but somebody is paying those 50k/month medical bills through higher taxes. So I guess it is fair to you that your fellow citizens must pay your bills for you.


have to ask you but you dont seam to be the fellow that works for a better world for everyone ?

i mean every one has heard the story of the grashopper and the ant and how they prepared for winter.

well more or less the moral of the story is that in the end we must help each other out .,

i mean the money that went to the wars in afganistan and iraq would have keept a free national health service going for years if not decades

but i guess the u.s mentality on health care goes hand in hand with what they call spreading freedom and democracy

its either start healing or keep on spreading pain and loathing towards your fellow man.

edit

instead of naging do the math , your yearly income - tax / by every u.s citizen = how much you oay for others

in conclution your wage dosent even cover that boys medical bill or anyones , you have to do it together

[edit on 31-7-2009 by zerbot565]



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 11:07 PM
link   

Originally posted by grapesofraft
How did it ever become expected of employers to provide their workers insurance of any kind?


Grapes:

To answer your question, it happened during WWII. There were wage controls (FDR planned economy stuff), and there was a shortage of workers, particularly in the War plants. They could not offer higher wages, but they could offer 'perks', of these, health insurance was one. It became a part of the civilian workplace. It was also something that the returning GI's were used to after their time in service.

You may have heard of one of the larger HMO's, Kaiser Permanente. Kaiser was started by Henry J. Kaiser as a means of providing that perk to his employees, and keeping the plan in his organization. (Kaiser was the guy, who amongst other things, built 'Liberty Ships'.)



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 11:16 PM
link   
reply to post by grapesofraft
 


Are you kidding?

Without employer subsidized health care, it would cost more.

My grandmother pays about 2-3 times what I pay for health insurance and I get a bargain through my job.



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 11:35 PM
link   
reply to post by grapesofraft
 


McDonalds is even simpler work, and htye offer a pretty nice health benefits package. They're also one of the most successful capitalism stories i nthe world.

Explain.



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 11:36 PM
link   
Stars for 'Tothetenthpower', 'Zerbot' and 'Rizla'


They know what they're talking about because they've experienced nationalised health care. Others seem to be afraid of the mere concept. Why ? Is it because it stirs up childhood memories of the fabricated 'Commie Threat' ? I dont' understand your reasoning otherwise. Nor do I understand the American fear and loathing of 'paying' .. especially when they believe/suspect they might be 'paying for someone else'.

To those outside the US, it seems clear that the health-insurance racket is --- a racket. Now -- wonder who'd be behind that racket ? And wonder if representatives of that racket live within American politics and 'gave' employers tax-breaks if they'd support and pay-into the racket.

Oh wait a minute --- WHO actually funds those employer tax-breaks ?

Oooops. Could it be the American tax-payer ? Again ? But Americans don't like paying for others. So how did the private health-care racket ever get off the ground ? Maybe those who stood to gain more from the health-care racket (those with permanent disabilities, etc. and even hypochondriacs) utilized private health-care and thus appeared to justify it's necessity ? Gets complicated, doesn't it ?

Why would Americans (if this thread's any indication) harbour such hostility towards nationalised health-care? How can they oppose something they've no experience of ?

Do Americans believe that a select group of doctors, nurses, hospitals operate under the health-insurance racket and are somehow superior to ...

.... the doctors, nurses and hospitals of a nationalised health care service ?


They're the same doctors, nurses, hospitals, specialists. Same.

The only question which remains to be answered is Why does a wealthy nation like the US, with its population of 300-plus million (150 million of whom are tax-paying workers, reportedly) have such a scandalously poor health-care reputation ? And why do Americans pay/have to pay so MUCH for health-care --- compared with tiny little New Zealand with its 3-plus million population of which only 1 or 1.5 million are employed, yet which has arguably a much superior health care system ?

Americans --- try nationalised health-care. At least give it a try. You have nothing to lose and maybe a lot to gain.



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 11:40 PM
link   
That's what I feel.

Some people are still using the "red scare" as an excuse for their hatred of socialism, communism and anything even remotely left of their views.

If I'm going to pay into a screwed up system, I want something out of it. Gimme free health care or get the hell out of my way.

While we're at it, I want a bailout. I want $50,000, tax-free and part of a bailout to help the American people.

Take the money away from the wars, bring the soldiers home and give that money back to the people.



[edit on 31-7-2009 by Janitor From Mars]



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 11:43 PM
link   
Oh man, I just had to say that I read this title in the side bar so there's no indication of who authored the thread, but when I was thinking of the premise of the title, I thought, "This has GOT to have been started by grapesofwrath."

I honestly did not think that I would be right but laughed when I was.



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 11:44 PM
link   
reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 


They function on a way higher profit margin on the food they sell compared to Wal-Marts markup on the products it sells. Sure maybe Wal-Mart could afford to give their employees health insurance, but why should they feel obligated?



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 11:46 PM
link   
reply to post by Janitor From Mars
 



We think alike



See my reference to 'the fabricated Commie Scare' in post immediately above yours.


Guess it will take Americans a while to get used to being able to just drop in to see the doctor, or the hospital, for treatment without having to worry if their 'health insurance' is paid-up.

Will take them a while to get used to pulling out a little card at the end of every visit and that's that.

Will take them a while to get used to paying what is actually a miniscule amount each week, via their taxes, for health care for their entire family --- instead of scheduling their lives and careers (thus the region in which they live) around whether or not their employer pays for or subsidises their health care.

Guess it will take Americans a while to get used to having the freedom to move across the country or accept positions with different employers -- because they no longer have to 'cling to' employer health-care benefits.

Freedoms. Thought that was the first word on Americans' lips when they awoke and the last thing they said at night ? Yet here they are, clinging to health-care bondage simply because it's a new concept to this nation of slaves



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 11:47 PM
link   
reply to post by Viking04
 


Thanks for the info Viking. I gave you a star. Yeah I have heard of Kaiser.. they were a big steel and/or aluminum producer I believe. I have a good friend who is a big dog at US Steel so I think I learned the steel industry through osmosis.


[edit on 7/31/2009 by grapesofraft]



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 11:51 PM
link   
reply to post by St Vaast
 


The funny thing is that now the folks on the far-right are starting to make up ridiculous crap just to paint Obama as a bad guy.

Something about "sinister" language in the health care bill.

Regardless of what they pass, we will be ready to fight if it's truly ridiculous and unwarranted.

I'd rather pay through health care through my taxes than have to worry about medical bills not fully covered by insurance.



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 11:53 PM
link   
My employer pays 100% of my healthcare. No one forced her to do it and since everyone she employees makes good money, she could just make us pay for at least some of it. But she doesn't because she wants to do it.

Having an employer pay for health care is extremely beneficial when you have groups of people and their dependents not just individuals. There is a reduced rate for everyone , including the employer, if they "go in on" a plan together.

Employers that can't afford it don't do it and they shouldn't have to break their banks to do it.

Employers that can and won't, should. Their not expected to do it but it's a courtesy. It helps keep health costs down, employees healthy and therefore productive, and it saves everyone some cash.

[edit on 31-7-2009 by nunya13]



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 11:53 PM
link   
reply to post by Janitor From Mars
 




---- thank your forebears, for they bequeathed you intelligence and the ability to analyse and adapt



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 11:54 PM
link   
reply to post by grapesofraft
 


Well no matter how bad the economy gets there are still people who won't work for minimum wage without the perk of healthcare. As I said even in this recession I quit the Job at wal mart because people were down right nasty that shopped there, not everyone, mind you, but I have been in this business for most of my working life and I never dealt with A*holes like at WAL MART!. Friends of mine won't even shop there because of the people who shop there, almost all of them are basic welfare king/queens and the think that not only the government owes them something, but they think you're their little Slave B**** just because you work there. That coming from some crackhead who sits at home all day living off the money the government takes from your pay and gives to these jerk offs to begin with, would make anyone sick to their stomache!!!! Oh And BTW they make you pay part of the healthcare cost out of your pay anyway. They are not the soul source of benefits In Wal Mart's case. In fact most people, like me don't even stay long enough for the benefits, for the reasons I have just stated.



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 11:55 PM
link   
reply to post by nunya13
 




Yet how much MORE beneficial would it be it you were still able to access the same or perhaps better quality of health care if/when you and other members of your family become unemployed ?



posted on Aug, 1 2009 @ 12:08 AM
link   
reply to post by St Vaast
 


Well I've gotten a bit more libertarian over time but I know where my roots are.



posted on Aug, 1 2009 @ 12:18 AM
link   
My work not only provides my health insurance, but insurance for all my family. They pay for it all 100%, I don't have to pay anything.

So it's not like all companies are bad. My company takes good care of it's employees and some of the things it does are things I can't mention on these forums(not bad, just beyond what is considered acceptable to talk about). If I'm in trouble, I call my boss for anything. If was to get arrested for something, or if I'm in some kind of financial need, I'd call my CEO first.

It sucks that not all do it, but it makes the ones that do that much more valuable, and the ones that do it are more likely to keep their good employees. I get job offers all the time and I will not even consider leaving my company - even when they offer more money. Just can't put a price on working for a company that actually gives a crap about it's employees and see's them as people rather than a source of revenue.

I personally don't think the answer lies so much with the companies themselves, but most of the things like this are in part due to the economic/monetary system we have. The health insurance thing I think is mostly a symptom of it.

There was a time when a man could work at the local factory, and easily support his entire family comfortably. But inflation and such in the monetary system has increased prices and robbed the purchasing power of the citizens so much, both parents have to work, sometimes more than 1 job.

It is that kind of stuff which creates the situations that allows companies to treat their employees badly.

So you really need to get to the root of the cause, rather than trying to treat the symptoms. Healthcare, poverty, crappy pay and so forth are just symptoms.



posted on Aug, 1 2009 @ 12:21 AM
link   
reply to post by grapesofraft
 


Yup, and Kaiser had shipyards, an auto company (Kaiser), that bought a little company called Willys and made a few jeeps. It's one of those 'big companies'.

Thanks for the star.



new topics

top topics



 
2
<< 1  2    4  5 >>

log in

join