Originally posted by grapesofraft
How did it ever become expected of employers to provide their workers insurance of any kind?

Grapes:

To answer your question, it happened during WWII. There were wage controls (FDR planned economy stuff), and there was a shortage of workers, particularly in the War plants. They could not offer higher wages, but they could offer 'perks', of these, health insurance was one. It became a part of the civilian workplace. It was also something that the returning GI's were used to after their time in service.

You may have heard of one of the larger HMO's, Kaiser Permanente. Kaiser was started by Henry J. Kaiser as a means of providing that perk to his employees, and keeping the plan in his organization. (Kaiser was the guy, who amongst other things, built 'Liberty Ships'.)

Stars for 'Tothetenthpower', 'Zerbot' and 'Rizla'

They know what they're talking about because they've experienced nationalised health care. Others seem to be afraid of the mere concept. Why ? Is it because it stirs up childhood memories of the fabricated 'Commie Threat' ? I dont' understand your reasoning otherwise. Nor do I understand the American fear and loathing of 'paying' .. especially when they believe/suspect they might be 'paying for someone else'.

To those outside the US, it seems clear that the health-insurance racket is --- a racket. Now -- wonder who'd be behind that racket ? And wonder if representatives of that racket live within American politics and 'gave' employers tax-breaks if they'd support and pay-into the racket.

Oh wait a minute --- WHO actually funds those employer tax-breaks ?

Oooops. Could it be the American tax-payer ? Again ? But Americans don't like paying for others. So how did the private health-care racket ever get off the ground ? Maybe those who stood to gain more from the health-care racket (those with permanent disabilities, etc. and even hypochondriacs) utilized private health-care and thus appeared to justify it's necessity ? Gets complicated, doesn't it ?

Why would Americans (if this thread's any indication) harbour such hostility towards nationalised health-care? How can they oppose something they've no experience of ?

Do Americans believe that a select group of doctors, nurses, hospitals operate under the health-insurance racket and are somehow superior to ...

.... the doctors, nurses and hospitals of a nationalised health care service ?


They're the same doctors, nurses, hospitals, specialists. Same.

The only question which remains to be answered is Why does a wealthy nation like the US, with its population of 300-plus million (150 million of whom are tax-paying workers, reportedly) have such a scandalously poor health-care reputation ? And why do Americans pay/have to pay so MUCH for health-care --- compared with tiny little New Zealand with its 3-plus million population of which only 1 or 1.5 million are employed, yet which has arguably a much superior health care system ?

Americans --- try nationalised health-care. At least give it a try. You have nothing to lose and maybe a lot to gain.

That's what I feel.

Some people are still using the "red scare" as an excuse for their hatred of socialism, communism and anything even remotely left of their views.

If I'm going to pay into a screwed up system, I want something out of it. Gimme free health care or get the hell out of my way.

While we're at it, I want a bailout. I want $50,000, tax-free and part of a bailout to help the American people.

Take the money away from the wars, bring the soldiers home and give that money back to the people.



[edit on 31-7-2009 by Janitor From Mars]

Oh man, I just had to say that I read this title in the side bar so there's no indication of who authored the thread, but when I was thinking of the premise of the title, I thought, "This has GOT to have been started by grapesofwrath."

I honestly did not think that I would be right but laughed when I was.

My employer pays 100% of my healthcare. No one forced her to do it and since everyone she employees makes good money, she could just make us pay for at least some of it. But she doesn't because she wants to do it.

Having an employer pay for health care is extremely beneficial when you have groups of people and their dependents not just individuals. There is a reduced rate for everyone , including the employer, if they "go in on" a plan together.

Employers that can't afford it don't do it and they shouldn't have to break their banks to do it.

Employers that can and won't, should. Their not expected to do it but it's a courtesy. It helps keep health costs down, employees healthy and therefore productive, and it saves everyone some cash.

[edit on 31-7-2009 by nunya13]

My work not only provides my health insurance, but insurance for all my family. They pay for it all 100%, I don't have to pay anything.

So it's not like all companies are bad. My company takes good care of it's employees and some of the things it does are things I can't mention on these forums(not bad, just beyond what is considered acceptable to talk about). If I'm in trouble, I call my boss for anything. If was to get arrested for something, or if I'm in some kind of financial need, I'd call my CEO first.

It sucks that not all do it, but it makes the ones that do that much more valuable, and the ones that do it are more likely to keep their good employees. I get job offers all the time and I will not even consider leaving my company - even when they offer more money. Just can't put a price on working for a company that actually gives a crap about it's employees and see's them as people rather than a source of revenue.

I personally don't think the answer lies so much with the companies themselves, but most of the things like this are in part due to the economic/monetary system we have. The health insurance thing I think is mostly a symptom of it.

There was a time when a man could work at the local factory, and easily support his entire family comfortably. But inflation and such in the monetary system has increased prices and robbed the purchasing power of the citizens so much, both parents have to work, sometimes more than 1 job.

It is that kind of stuff which creates the situations that allows companies to treat their employees badly.

So you really need to get to the root of the cause, rather than trying to treat the symptoms. Healthcare, poverty, crappy pay and so forth are just symptoms.