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Psychology of History: WWII The True Story of Survival Warfare and Leadership

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posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 01:19 PM
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Welcome Ladies and Gentlemen, in this thread we will be examining Psychology of the Past or Psychology of History. We will be focusing on a part of history that is not widely known. I ask that you read this in its entirity and truely analyze what is before you


Here we go ladies and gents: The Psychology of History.

At what point does war become more than war? Is that even possible? Can war transcend war?

To me personally, it can. War can become something else entirely, it can become survival. But what is the difference between 'War' and 'A Survival War'? Both incorporate the same core ideologies.

War means:


a. A state of open, armed, often prolonged conflict carried on between nations, states, or parties.
b. The period of such conflict.
c. The techniques and procedures of war; military science.
War Definition

Survival Means:


1. the act or fact of surviving, esp. under adverse or unusual circumstances.
2. a person or thing that survives or endures, esp. an ancient custom, observance, belief, or the like.
Survival Definition However, a survival war is a bit different, a survival war is a war that is fought, because if you do not fight, you will die, and not only you, but your group, your ethnicity, your religions and your liberties will all perish. Basically its a war of survival, not a war to be fought over land, oil, goods or anything. It’s just a war to live.


Why am I making a thread about this? Well ladies and gentlemen; I want you to see that you can survive in the heart of war and that you can save others as well. But not only that, but some of you may even become leaders of a group and YOU will have to protect them and make decisions. One movie in particular which is based on a TRUE story that resonants power, love and freedom is the movie called
DEFIANCE. But why this particular story? Why this one out of thousands that I could have chosen?

To me I chose this because of the story behind the men and the story of those they saved. But not only that, but I chose this because of where they were at, they were in the middle of the fighting. I also chose this because it shows what people will do to survive and just how survival war is different from any war that we have and a war that we will all soon face.

First some background.


History of Defiance



After the Germans killed their parents and two brothers in the Nowogrodek ghetto in December 1941, three surviving brothers of the Bielski family -- Tuvia (1906-1987), Asael (1908-1945), Zus (1910-1995) **Aron (1927- )** -- established a partisan group. Initially, the Bielski brothers attempted only to save their own lives and those of their family members. They fled to the nearby Zabielovo and Perelaz forests, where they formed the nucleus of a partisan detachment consisting at first of about 30 family members and friends.

The Bielski Partisans (I added the words between the ** ** as well as moved the "and" to different location for gramatical correctness)



The family members chose former Zionist activist Tuvia Bielski, a Polish Army veteran and a charismatic leader, to command the group. His brother Asael became his deputy, while Zus was placed in charge of reconnaissance.
LINK But I assure you that their was definately tension by this decision as depicted in the movie. Zus was very much of a macho man and had very strong bravdo and sway about him. Their is no doubt that he wanted to be charge of the group, but none the less he did what he felt was right and helped his brother, rather than arguing with him.



The Bielskis had been a Jewish farming family in the nearby village of Stankiewicze, and the brothers knew the region well. Their familiarity with its geography, customs, and people helped them elude the German authorities and their Belorussian auxiliaries. With the help of non-Jewish Belorussian friends, they were able to acquire guns. The Bielski partisans later supplemented these arms with captured German weapons, Soviet weapons, and equipment supplied by Soviet partisans.

Tuvia Bielski saw his principal mission as saving the lives of his fellow Jews. The Bielskis encouraged Jews in nearby Lida, Nowogrodek, Minsk, Iwie, Mir, Baranowicze, and other ghettos to escape and join them in the forest. Bielski frequently sent guides into the ghettos to escort people to the forest. In late 1942, a special mission saved over a hundred Jews from the Iwie ghetto just as the Germans planned to liquidate it. Bielski scouts constantly searched the roads for Jewish escapees in need of protection.

Many Jews hiding in the forests in smaller family groups joined the Bielski group; Jewish partisans serving in Soviet partisan organizations also fell in with the Bielskis in an attempt to escape antisemitism in their units. The stream of Jewish survivors increased the size of the Bielski group to more than 300 people by the end of 1942.

Until the summer of 1943, the group led a nomadic existence in the forest. In August 1943, however, the Germans began a massive manhunt directed against Russian, Polish, and Jewish partisans in the region. They deployed more than 20,000 military personnel and SS and police officials. Moreover, they offered a reward of 100,000 Reichmarks for information leading to Tuvia Bielski’s capture. The Bielski group, which had increased to approximately 700 Jews, was especially vulnerable to discovery by the German patrols. The group feared in part that the local peasants from whom they obtained food might betray them. As a result, the Bielski group moved in December 1943 to what became a permanent base in the Naliboki Forest, a swampy, scarcely accessible region on the right bank of the Niemen River, east of Lida and northeast of Nowogrodek.

It was in this primitive and unlikely setting that the Bielski group created a community. Despite some opposition from within the group, Tuvia Bielski never wavered in his determination to accept and protect all Jewish refugees, regardless of age or gender. The Bielskis never turned anyone away, permitting the creation of a mobile family “camp” -- in effect, a Jewish community in the forest. The group organized the skilled workers among the Jewish refugees into workshops, which employed at least 200 people, including cobblers, tailors, carpenters, leather workers, and blacksmiths.

In addition, the group established a mill, a bakery, and a laundry. The leadership managed a primitive infirmary, a school for the children, a synagogue, and even a courthouse/jail. Work groups supplied the camp with food and cleared the land where possible for the cultivation of wheat and barley.
LINK

Not only this, but the russians and teh Bielski's created a strong bond between them and they became friends. However, it was the commander that went out of his way to protect Tuvia's group. The leaders name was General Platon. However, it eventually became a struggle for the Russians and the Bielski group, both groups needed something from one and other and a decision had to be made to split the group or stay together.


Bielski refused Soviet requests to provide an operations unit from among the approximately 150 men in his group who engaged in armed operations. He did not wish to abandon the married men, the women, and the children, for he knew that they could not survive without the armed protection of the armed men in his group. This concern was another reason for him in 1943 to draw his entire group deeper into the most inaccessible regions of the forest. Subsequently, although the group remained de facto united and under Tuvia Bielski’s command, they formally split into the “Kalinin” and “Ordzhonikidze” detachments of the Kirov Brigade of Soviet partisans.
LINK


Basically this means that some of the group joined fellow Russian partisan groups.



On June 22, 1944, Soviet troops initiated a massive offensive in Eastern Belorussia. Within six weeks, the Soviet Army had destroyed the German Army Group Center and swept westward to the Vistula River in Poland, liberating all of Belorussia. At the time of liberation, the Bielski group had reached its peak of 1,230 people. More than 70 percent were women, elderly persons, and children, who otherwise would have perished under the German occupation. An estimated 50 members of the Bielski group were killed, an unusually low casualty rate in comparison not only with other partisan detachments but also with Jewish groups in the region.

After World War II, in 1945 Tuvia and Zus Bielski emigrated with their families to Palestine. They both fought in the Israeli armed forces during the 1948 war that established the Israeli state. They subsequently immigrated to the United States. Asael was drafted into the Soviet Army. He died on the front in East Prussia in February 1945.
LINK




posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 01:20 PM
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And now that we have the background completed we can further understand what they had to go through to survive and the mentality that they had. For instance.

Tuvia and his brothers were farmers, not really rich or part of the high end Jewish communities. But in this war they were all the same, no longer were their rich classes or poor classes. They were all the same by establishing that everyone would be treated the same way, recieve the same amount of food and that everyone would work. In essence the people who were rich were now poor and the poor were in charge. How quickly the classes can change, luckily the brothers kept their wits about them and were able to establish the rules above and hold them with authority. The brothers story is the perfect demonstartion of survival war and the psychology behind this war. But what were these psychological processes?


Psychological Processes


1) The Need For A Leader Amoung Everyone. Tuvia Beilski took the reigns as the leader and led with fairness and authority.

2) The Desire To Save Lives And Promote Life. Tuvia Bielski NEVER turned anyone away from the group. He accepted all of the eldery, the children, men and women. He accepted everyone and gave everyone the same protection.

3) The Need To Retain Humanity. Tuvia gave everyone hope to hold onto their humanity and to not become the enemy in which they fought.

4) The Necessity To Fight To Survive. Tuvia and the group had to , on occassions, fight to survive. The Germans made many offensives to capture them and that this meant that fighting was necessary. One can only run for so long, eventually you will run into a corner and will have to fight back. Not only this, but they had to steal from farmers who could give or farmers who would give to the Germans.

5) The Strength Of Faith. They kept faith strong and held a desire to hold onto something, even when their faith was being tested. But most importantly, they didn't let faith hold them down, they used it to empower them.

6) Most importantly: The Gift To Retain Hope. Tuvia, Zus, Asael, Aron and the ENTIRE group all helped to hold eachother up in this difficult time. They all inspired hope in each other and too be honest, hope is what saved them.

One could point out many more, but this act of defiance kept them going and kept them alive. They would survive and would live long and prosper. The Jews that the Bielski's saved now number in the TENS of THOUSAND. This is the true story of the war of survival or a survival war.

Lets face it ladies and gentlemen, we are on the Verge of a global crisis; Nuclear Bombs, Biological and Chemical Warfare, and Invasions. Our world can and will be turned upside down, that is a fact and necessary part of history. We will all turn to a leader and who knows ladies and gentlemen, YOU maybe the leader that everyone turns to.

But what is it about being a leader? What did Tuvia face? What does every leader face?

Most importantly, did Tuvia want to be the leader? I am sure many of people are scared about becoming the leader of a group and many believe that they cannot do it. Ladies and Gentlemen, I am sure Tuvia asked himself and felt the same way.

The following explains some leadership psychological processes, but the person inside can be replaced by anyone. Its just a name that he was using as an example.


A psychoanalyst and anthropologist, Maccoby is a Washington-based consultant on leadership to businesses, governments and unions.

He has a PhD from Harvard, where he directed the program on technology, public policy and human development from 1978-90. He studied psychoanalysis with Erich Fromm and is the author of several books, including The Gamesman and The Leader.

"Certainly in American history, leadership comes out of crisis," he says, pointing to Franklin Roosevelt and Abraham Lincoln. "Now we've seen that with Giuliani."

Maccoby emphasizes, "What is crucial in this kind of situation is that a leader binds the anxiety that people feel. There's a lot of anxiety, particularly in this kind of situation where you don't have a direct enemy face to face.

"You can't fight and you can't run. So you have this anxiety that makes people become depressed and feel powerless. And Giuliani right away bound that anxiety. You bind anxiety by focusing, by turning it into activity."
Psychology of Leaders

This is a take from Scientific American:


In the past, leadership scholars considered charisma, intelligence and other personality traits to be the key to effective leadership. Accordingly, these academics thought that good leaders use their inborn talents to dominate followers and tell them what to do, with the goal either of injecting them with enthusiasm and willpower that they would otherwise lack or of enforcing compliance. Such theories suggest that leaders with sufficient character and will can triumph over whatever reality they confront.

In recent years, however, a new picture of leadership has emerged, one that better accounts for leadership performance. In this alternative view, effective leaders must work to understand the values and opinions of their followers—rather than assuming absolute authority—to enable a productive dialogue with followers about what the group embodies and stands for and thus how it should act. By leadership, we mean the ability to shape what followers actually want to do, not the act of enforcing compliance using rewards and punishments.
Scientific American

To me personally the Above is what Tuvia Beilski did, he was the victim and he was the follower of himself. He used the values of his group and the opinions of the group and used each one to become the leader that they needed and wanted.

Thought processes that go into being a leader.


Leadership in the mind - the psychology of leadership

We spend a lot of time thinking about leadership - it must be important to us.

When things go wrong, we blame leaders - a useful scapegoat.

When we feel anxious or lost, we look to leaders to make us feel better.

Anxiety grows with work pressure, hence the growing cry for leadership.

What does it say about us that we so strongly need leaders?

Why do we need them so much?

How does our need for leadership differ from hero worship?

How can we grow and develop if we depend on leaders to save us?

We naturally form ourselves into hierarchies - just like all primates and a lot of other animals.

We disempower ourselves if we equate leadership with hierarchical position.
Basically, managers occupy positions. Leaders are free-floating, somewhat rebellious, agents of change.

Traditional leadership theory is paternalistic - we want someone in charge of us who is a substitute parent - usually a father figure.

Admired leaders look after us, inspire us, make us feel good. We seek their approval, just like we did our fathers.

But this model of leadership is profoundly disempowering.

Hence why we need to get rid of it. Even if we can't erase our dependency needs, we can at least stop calling such people leaders. Soothing our anxieties is not leadership. Championing change, challenging the status quo as Martin Luther King, Mahatma Gandhi and Nelson Mandela did to their respective governments - that is leadership.

Being in charge doesn't make you a leader, just a manager.
Psychology of Leadership

Tuvia Beilski and his brothers and his group survived. By the end of everything they were 1,230 strong. They started over and created a world in which everyone could be free. They survived the survival war, when many did not. Many Jews were killed in the holocaust and no one can deny that. Ladies and Gentlemen, I want you too think of this story above in thefirst OP and I want you to examine the leaderhip role and ask yourself if you could lead and ask yourself did Tuvia think he could be the leader? Did he know that he would be a leader? Did the group know that they would survive the war? And finally can war transcend war?

And to wrap everything up, I want you all to remember this quote from the movie Defiance, spoken by Danial Craig, who played Tuvia Bielski:



We cannot afford revenge, not now. We cannot afford to lose friends. Our revenge is to live. We may be hunted like animals, but we will not become animals



This is Tuvia Bielski uvia:



His Brother Zus Zus:



and Asael Asael Bielski:



Partisans with Aron Bielski (The boy in the center middle with the rifle) Aron Bielski:



Bielski Partisans Holocaust Museum:



Bielski Partisans Holocaust Research:




posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 01:51 PM
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Bravo!

This is some stunning insight on how all of us should work on surviving through these strangest of times.

I do believe we all are at war, and yes, a war for survival. Many people now are coming to realize that there's a force of power that is pushing against them, causing them to take whatever means necessary to survive. I, myself, have felt apart of a group for sometime now. No, we don't meet everyday and think of ways to over through the tyrannical government running this world, but we all have an understanding that if the SHTF, then we'd know who to turn to. Trusting people and having an alliance is key to survival.

Everyone should definitely consider talking to those they love about what is going on these days. I know many are pretty hesitant, for reasons understandable. Sure they may think you're crazy, but maybe you can start a fire in someone's head and cause them to think more about what's going on. Atleast ask them if things started to get real bad, if they'd be by your side, no matter what.

I mean, look at the Holocaust. Do you think the Jews ever thought that something as mind-blowing as that would have ever come upon them? Maybe if they had been more prepared for such an event, it would not have been so devastating.



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 01:55 PM
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reply to post by undefy.gravity
 


Thank You for the kind words. Sometimes things happen so fast that no matter how much preperation you have it will shock you and if you have no preparation you will stand their in fright an awe. I am glad you liked the article, and I agree 100% with you
We are at war and have been for a while.



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 02:24 PM
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Sometimes leaders won't even pop up until a moment of crisis.

I will share this bit given the WW2 example you used.

My dad was in WW2. His squad was pinned down and under heavy fire. The sargent and corporal were both hit and killed. The men, his buddies, were firing back but dad says he knew they'd all be killed if they didn't get out of that spot. Worse, they were all starting to ask, "What do we do?"

Dad says he just started barking out orders. They listened, they followed the orders. They fought their way out of that spot.

He says he didn't really intend on taking the leadership role. He was most concerned with seeing himself and his buddies get out of that spot alive. But, they all looked to him to answer the, "What now?" question after they got out.

Later they met up with more troops and a Lt. who asked, "Who's in charge here?" One of them pointed at dad said, "He's been telling us what to do and its kept us alive so far." The Lt said, "Good." Looked at dad and said, "Son, you're a sargent now, what's your name?"



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 02:28 PM
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reply to post by Frogs
 


Wow, what a fantastic story and you are so right sometimes leaders won't even pop up until a moment of crisis. Could not have said that better myself and you story is absolutely fantastic. You must be proud of your father
He saved the squad and his friends. Sometimes hero's are born in the moment and your dad is a Hero and he is a leader who as born in the moment. Great story mate. Star for you



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 06:50 PM
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Crisis can take our country, and our communities, and throw everyone into a tailspin in a few short minutes, as we have all learned well.
We hear "leaders are made, not born", but clearly there are natural born leaders among us, possessing qualities such as Beilski here. I noticed some of the characteristics listed included powerful human emotions such as FAITH, and HOPE, and his ability to keep those alive, never losing sight of them. I imagine he distributed them freely.

One outstanding characteristics appears to be COURAGE, and when it became necessary to fight, he could rise to the occasion, and rally his followers to do the same. Unavoidable in murderous times.

We might very well be "on the verge of a global crisis", and many people may very well be called upon to help those prone to follow. The qualities here are significant enough to keep in mind by those put in a leader's position. They are valuable.

Good job here, and good subject material. A valuable lesson for us all.



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 07:03 PM
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reply to post by ladyinwaiting
 


Thank you for the kind words ladyinwaiting
They always mean a lot and are much appreciated. And thank you for bringing up courage which is another fantastic quality that must be remembered.

And you said it beautifully:



We hear "leaders are made, not born", but clearly there are natural born leaders among us, possessing qualities such as Beilski here. I noticed some of the characteristics listed included powerful human emotions such as FAITH, and HOPE, and his ability to keep those alive, never losing sight of them. I imagine he distributed them freely.


Absolutely beautiful.



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 08:14 PM
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Sure. But one word that jumps out when reading the description of the individual almost naturally selected to become the leader is

CHARISMA.

Be interesting to see someone like that in action.

But I guess that's another thread, huh?



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 08:17 PM
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reply to post by ladyinwaiting
 


Very much so, their have been many leaders like Tuvia that were born for a specific purpose, and that is too lead. And most do not want to, but they cannot escape destiny, which is also another thread entirely..lol..
You should defiantely do one on Destiny and Leadership! You would rock at that.



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 10:34 PM
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reply to post by TheMythLives
 


Great thread TML,I think this case shows how certain events can make even the most unlikely person(s) a leader and hero. Furthermore I believe it is important to understand what qualities go into being a true leader as we never know when the situation may arise ourselves. Good presentation as usual, too bad you don't believe in aliens, lol we could use your great thread skills in some UFO/alien cases.



posted on Aug, 1 2009 @ 08:22 AM
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reply to post by jkrog08
 


Thank you for the kind words Krog
That is so true and so important no one knows when the situation will arise in which we all will be looking to someone or looking at ourselves for leadership. As for the aliens.. lol, I will still make an alien thread one day. Don't worry just because I don't believe does not mean I don't like the theory..lol.. Again thanks for the kind words Krog! Who knows you maybe a leader one day my friend



posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 10:04 AM
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The discussion surrounding the "past" sucessful methods of leadership and the "current" idealogies surrounding this is interesting. It seems to reflect the evolution of mankind in some ways. The old authoritarian method of leadership not being as successful now, except primarily in the military (where it must function as such.....I can't imagine the military ever being based on a democracy,) law enforcment, and some households. lol.

People absolutely want to be heard and considered in any group. Note the countries now in the middle east where there is so much conflict. These are areas (Iran) where people's individual interests have not been considered and there exists now an uprising against this.

Nonetheless, there will always be those who wish to led, and told what to do, particularly in times of crisis. Think of the US after 911. We were all glued to our televisions nervously awaiting the President's response on how we would handle this extreme event.

Furthermore, I think we all have had times where we have been called upon to lead, whether we wanted to or not. People will migrate towards you when they feel you have the competency to guide them. It's interesting to think of the tv show "Lost", and how Jack was almost immediately placed in the leadership position, although he did not request this or solicit it. Was it because he had an M.D.? Or did he have other qualities?

His main purpose was helping others, in the outset. He was completely focused on the other plane crash survivors. This didn't go unnoticed, apparently, by the other survivors. They knew here was a person who was obviously intelligent, and had proven he wanted what was best for them. Kinda reminds me of Tuvia!



posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by TheMythLives
 


Another great thread, TML, and this one is on a topic I know because I have been fighting "war" since I was a child of six years old.

Mine has been one of survival, plain and simple because I had no other choice.

It's starts with what I began posting here :

Left-Wing, Right-Wing, This Turkey, Knows How To Soar Like An Eagle

My war began with a battle between my parents, a father who was alcoholic and a mother with my younger brother and I living in a situation she did not know how to get out of until it was almost too late. My father wrecked approximately four of her cars due to to drunk driving.

This escalated when she finally decided to leave him and went through a court battle and then my step-father came into my life, and my father did not like that the court favored my mother and he got no custody nor visitation rights because of his alcoholism and behavior while in court.

My step-father being a former Marine during Vietnam, began teaching me tactics, the Art of War, and lessons everytime something happened in my life, either during the progress of the day, or because of some life altering event happened where he thought I should know how to win the next time.

I began reading military, Law Enforcement, mystery book, intelligence/counter-intelligence books, you name it, it began making me think in only the context of war, and my "enemies".

My enemies, began to be anyone, who stood against me, anyone who attacked me, anyone who I perceived as a threat, but only if I let them become a threat as well.

As well as this it was passive for me, if I left them alone, maybe they would leave me alone, in other words, self-defense.

This however did not happen often, because once someone usually tends to see someone else who does not agree with them, they cannot leave them alone, I began to have to fight, both physically and mentally.

If you or anyone else reads that thread I posted on, it should explain for the most part what I am referring to, as well as I will change the tact of what I am speaking of here to reference more this thread than speaking of myself specifically.

Your question "war" becoming more than "war" and transcending into something else was a very good question, because I see it can transcend into something else completely, a way of life.

I do not see things in the simple context of friend or enemy anymore, it is in the context now and has been for a long time as well, as is this new person a threat, a potential threat, or a future betrayer of me based upon something we may not agree upon which will affect our "friendship".

I begin a friendship, knowing full and well, that I may walk away from this person forever, and never know them again, and that is fine by me.

My home, is not just a home, it is my safe haven, where I do not have to deal with idiots and morons, at least directly, but that is also where I watch everything with a microscope, and have my handguns within easy reach and I am prepared for violence to ensue at any moment.

No one is allowed in my home, unless I have cleared them, personally.

Afterall, they may try to steal something I possess, or become a future stalker and know things about me.

I was told by a friend, who is a self-professed "psychic" that I was Leonidas in a past life and that he crossed over with me when I was born. While I have my own opinions of psychics, I cannot deny this is a possibility, because all I ever think of is war and in war contexts, but in a passive-aggressive and peaceful manner.

I look for key indicators of war, and propaganda of war, and I know how to see signs that war is brewing, and I talk about it all the time, and this of course causes me more trouble at times than it is worth, because people in our society are so blind to what is really happening sometimes, that they want to live in their world of denial that Government is at a constant state of "war" whether they see it or not.

Very few people I know understand the topics I speak of or the complexity of how much it takes for a war to actually happen.

I will give you a very finite detail of what I am speaking on, TML, and anyone else who cares to listen.

Your "Jack the Ripper" thread, those attrocities only happened, because Europe and England specifically, was in a build up of war, yet the masses did not know this, so they were blind to the why of those killings simply because the man could get away with it, because everyone was so distracted by what else was happening in the world at that time.

You see, war does not only affect the country it is happening in directly, but indirectly it affects all of the countries it surrounds, as people flee those events, say for instance, Iraq, they tend to migrate into other countries to feel safe and to get away from the conflict, this is something historically is spoken of often, but not in its entirety. Those people living in Iraq have either dealt with the war by staying there, or fleeing into Iran, Afghanistan, or Asia.

This means, that there is an influx of travelers who are migrating into a country that now has become overwhelmed due to that influx of people.

One of the only things that saved me from acting out aggresively, was a equal balance of peace, to go with that war, and I turned the Art of War into the Art of Peace for myself.

[edit on 2-8-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 12:57 PM
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While I appreciate your sharing about your childhood, I also wonder if you have developed an obsession or fixation with war. You were still at an impressionable age when your father began teaching you about war...and this was someone who had been traumatized by it, as is evidenced by his alcoholism upon return, which was true of many of the Viet Nam veterans at that time. Are you sure you have not inadvertently internalized his anxieties?

If this is too personal, please forgive me. You can alway choose not to respond. But, the way you are living now. Is it happy for you?

My best to you.
liw



posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 01:04 PM
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reply to post by ladyinwaiting
 


Actually SKL is against violence, he says that in a recent thread of his:

How To Overthrow Your Own Government, Legally and Without Violence, In Order To Survive

He has also said it other times in other threads.



posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by ladyinwaiting
 


I love LOST, particulary Evangeline Lilly..lol.. Anyway, you are absolutely correct. Leadership I believe can take many forms, but the true leadership is from a leader who rules with love and gives hope when their is nothing left, much like Tuvia Bielski. He inspired hope among many and ruled with love and not fear.



posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
While I appreciate your sharing about your childhood, I also wonder if you have developed an obsession or fixation with war. You were still at an impressionable age when your father began teaching you about war...and this was someone who had been traumatized by it, as is evidenced by his alcoholism upon return, which was true of many of the Viet Nam veterans at that time. Are you sure you have not inadvertently internalized his anxieties?

If this is too personal, please forgive me. You can alway choose not to respond. But, the way you are living now. Is it happy for you?

My best to you.
liw


I have to assume you are speaking to me since there was no reference to my ATS name, so I will answer this question.

I think you are confusing my father and my step-father, but, both were obssessed with "war" so to speak, the difference is my father decided to drink himself into the bottom of a bottle of booze instead of deal with it, and he was ex-Air-Force, while my stepfather came back from Vietnam whole and untouched physically and mentally.

My step-father decided to use war as a metaphor, he did not always speak of it in the context of war, some of this is my own figuring out after the fact as well.

Also, as well as this, I decided to pick up books on Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece, my step-father never recommended them nor spoke about them, he has too busy working, he spoke with context about war as in what was happening in the newspapers, what Government official was metaphorically or even literally "getting away with murder" and why they were able to do it, because of the lack of knowledge within Government to see it all in its complexity, or that the person was aligned with the Mason's or Skull and Bones, etc.

I did not see your question as too personal, I think perhaps though you have mistaken those two men who affected my life.

My father affected my life, because I chose to never become a drinker, a positive effect through a negative lesson.

My step-father affected my life, because he was there to protect me, and to teach me how to protect myself, in every way.

If you read the thread I posted in the Bully Pulpit Forum and in my original post, it may help to understand a bit more.

And, ladyinwaiting, I am happier than I ever could be, because I can literally see a conflict before it happens, because I can see the signs and indicators of war, and so by seeing it, I can avoid it for myself, or at least know it is coming and prepare for it more so than I already was prepared for it.

I as well usually tend to see it for other people, before they know it is happening and try to assist them in avoiding it, or in taking action to avoid it for themselves.



[edit on 2-8-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 01:13 PM
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As always thank you for the kind words
I am glad that you have continued to this journey of self peace and your own leadership. While I cannot say that I understand what you went through, I do understand your survival qualities, not that I went through what you went through, but like you I read a lot of the same books. My parents actually influenced me into doing so, I think they believe that the world is going to be in war soon, which is why they want me to learn as much as I can. They have been great supporters and I couldn't ask for better. But your case was different and I am glad you are here to share it
Keep up the good fight against violence mate



posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


Ahh, I do see now. Thank you. I haven't read any of your other posts, so my thoughts were just based on this one. I admire the thought, and respect it, of being able to identify certain factors in the making, before they happen. So this almost innate disposition towards war/peace works in a positive way for you. To encourage peace. Good. Thanks for explaining.



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