Is Canine Disarming the Solution for Aggressive Dogs?

Is Canine Disarming the Solution for Aggressive Dogs?

www.pawnation.com

The aggressive six-year-old American Eskimo dog recently underwent a highly controversial dental treatment known as canine disarming to trim and smooth his teeth.

Cotton's owner Diane Krieger had tried just about everything -- puppy training classes, self-help books, and even assistance from "Dog Whisperer" Cesar Millan -- to tame her pup's dangerous bad habit, but the biting persisted. She even looked into dog rescue groups, but most refused to take pets with a history of biting.

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They lasered and capped the dog's teeth. Now, if the dog gets out or needs to defend itself, it may have trouble.

I understand that some dogs who bite need to be put down, and that's very sad. I understand that this owner was facing that decision and loves her dog and wants to save it.

But I agree with what the American Veterinary Medical Association says in that article, that it doesn't address the behavioral problems behind the biting. It says the dog still jumps on intruders... clearly it didn't solve the problem.

I don't know if the women tried medications or pheromone therapy with the dog. I know that I had a cat who was vicious with my other cats. We got her because otherwise her owners would have put her in a kill shelter, and nobody else wanted the cat. She was eleven when we got her. She had major behavioral problems. We tried the pills, we tried the ear rub medications, we tried pheromone therapy. Granted, we didn't have as strong of a connection to her because we only had her for a short time, but we put her down. Same thing, she couldn't go to a shelter, and nobody wanted the cat with the issues. She was really a miserable cat, emotionally, she was not happy. So we put her down.

I don't think that The Dog Whisperer does much aside from behavioral modification with these dogs. I think if it's something chemical or innate, he can't do much. So I'm not saying this woman did the wrong thing, because I'm sure she loves her dog very much, but this could be dangerous to the dog if it ever needs to defend itself.

It also may have been done under anesthesia, which poses other risks for dogs.

What's next? Break it's legs so it can't jump onto people? I'm sure that dog would be living a great life. I think this is moving in the wrong direction.

www.pawnation.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

I would rather be bitten than gummed aggressively. This is terrible and cruel and does not attend to the underlying problem of an aggressive dog, a bad owner.

Agreed and does not solve the problem and I doubt it will work on all dogs.

Once I was tending to an old (12), ill, Rottie. Poor dental health and a rough youth had left him with broken canines. All four were about 1/2 normal length and flat instead of pointed.

But he snapped when I was trying to give him some medication and due to his strength and jaw force he was able to go all the way through my hand.

Mind you - this dog was not normally agressive in any way. He was just, old, ill and afraid. It wasn't his fault. It was mine for not having someone help give the meds.

In my opinion this tooth capping thing is just not a good idea. As others have said, it doesn't solve the behavior and may not solve the problem either.

reply to post by Frogs


You're right, I thought about that too. The jaw force is strong enough that if the dog even tries to bite, it could still cause damage.

The only place I think any sort of capping has in the veterinary sciences are the replaceable claw caps for cats, to render them blunt in lieu of getting a cat declawed if it has a habit of tearing at furniture. My first cat was adopted at almost a year old and we had declawed because she ripped up couches, and that was ten years ago when people did it more often. My new cat is almost a year and a half, and she doesn't even try to scratch furniture, because we raised her from a kitten. If you teach against bad habits early, it prevents problems. Some people just don't like to yell at their pets.

If this dog had a behavioral problem I would have tried stronger medications, I think. But if she was given the choice of this procedure or putting it down, I can see where she comes from.

But I would have put it down. It doesn't even seem to be working.

Edit- and if the procedure required anesthesia, that's a whole extra bit. I think anesthesia should be avoided with domestic animals at all costs. You do it when you get it spayed/neutered and you try never to have to do it again.

[edit on 7/31/2009 by ravenshadow13]

I wonder if her dog was spayed or neutered. An intact animal is always more aggressive than one who has been "altered". I'm sure the people who tried to help her told her that, I'm just wondering why they didn't mention it in the story. Spaying and neutering is one of the easiest forms of behavior modification there is because the owner doesn't really have to do anything to make the modification happen and it's great for the unfortunate overpopulation of stray or abandoned cats and dogs. ALL of my animals (4 cats & 2 dogs) have been "altered".

99% of the time an aggressive dog is the fault of the owner. We should be grinding down the teeth of these idiot owners.

This story is like the UK. Take all their guns away and they go stabbing each other. It didnt solve anything for them. Unfortunately violent people dont have owners other than themselves. God forbid people begin behaving themselves.

I can understand why she had it done. My dog's a bit over 50 pounds and gets aggressive to people he doesn't know as well. Had my dad come over to take him out once when I wasn't here and my dog about took his hand off when dad went to let him out of his cage. He tried to bite a girl at the vet's who was putting the wrong leash on him when I had him boarded not long ago too.

All of this happened after he was neutered, so I'm not sure how much the neutering actually helped lessen his aggression towards people he doesn't know. Luckily he hasn't gotten ahold of anyone yet and he isn't like that with my children. If he ever does we'll probably have to put him down if we can't find anyone to take him.

I can understand not wanting to put your dog down, but lasering off their teeth just seems like a bad idea to me.. Like someone else mentioned, what happens if they get out and need those teeth to defend themselves? It's probably not much of a concern in cities, but anywhere there are wild animals nearby there's always a chance of one crossing your dog's path if it gets loose. I just don't think I could do that to my dog and risk him getting hurt because of it.

Yeah, behavior is the problem, not the teeth.

There are LOTS of places that will take aggressive dogs. They should take it to Dog Town, if needed.

A truly aggressive dog will bite and not let go. A quick bite is usually the sign of a nervous dog. Either way, it's a behavior problem. No quick fix. It takes time to modify a behavior such as this.

This canine disarmament is not the answer. If it's that much of a problem during certain situations (vet, grooming, med administering), muzzle it.

I would bet my life that the dog has had all it's vaccinations. Saying that ...
www.dogs4dogs.com...

Possible rabies Vaccine side effects The rabies vaccine is the only legally-required vaccine for companion animals in the United States. It’s administered primarily to protect humans from their pets should those pets be bitten by rabid bats, coyotes, raccoons, foxes or other animals. This is all well and good EXCEPT that the vaccine is known to cause serious side effects in cats and dogs, many of which are listed below:
Immediately or up to 3 days after the shot:
Vomiting ,Facial swelling, Fever or lethargy, Circulatory shock, Loss of consciousness, Death
Days, weeks or months after the shot:
Fibrosarcoma (cancer) at the injection site, Seizures and Epilepsy Allergies Autoimmune diseases, including organ disease, allergies and skin problems Chronic digestive problems, Muscle weakness, especially lack of hind end coordination Chronic digestive disorders ,Skin diseases like Ischemic Dermatopathy / Cutaneous vasculitis
Behavior problems: aggression, destructive behaviors, separation anxiety and odd obsessive behaviors (like tail chasing and paw licking). Dr. Michael Dym (Peaches' vet, see below) says chronic symptoms of a reaction to the rabies vaccine sometimes mimic noninfectious symptoms of rabies and "include restlessness; viciousness; avoidance of company; unusual affection; desire to travel; inability to be restrained; self biting; strange cries and howls; inability to swallow resulting in gagging while eating/drinking; staring eyes; swallowing wood, stones, inedibles; destruction of blankets, clothing; convulsive seizures; throat spasms; increased sexual desires; disturbed heart function; excited and jerky breathing. Read his entire article on rabies vaccinosis

www.thewholedog.org...

Poor puppies and kitties I guess it's not enough that they poison us, they have to take our pets too.

[edit on 31-7-2009 by sickofitall2012]

Look, say what you will, the woman was in a bind. She no doubt loved that dog and had a choice of putting it down, or trying some desperate thing like capping its teeth.

That doesn't solve any problem, except making it less likely anyone will be badly hurt when (not if, but when) the dog attacks someone. The dog will still growl and attack and bite; it will still scare people and probably go after other dogs. Now it might be less able to defend itself in a real fight with another dog. But it was an act of desperation, the last thing you try before you put the poor animal down.

We don't know why this animal is so vicious. Maybe it was abused by a previous owner (I doubt this owner did the abusing, but of course you never know). Maybe it had a brain injury or some toxic damage or whatever. The dog is vicious and, if fully armed, dangerous. Now it is less dangerous. Maybe that will be enough to save the dog, let it live out its last years.

Lots of people wouldn't bother with this capping. It was expensive, and it's not a 100% solution. But apparently it's better than nothing, and it's better than killing the dog, so I can see why some owners would go that route first. Give it every chance to live, before finally putting it down.

Just a comment about "what if he gets out and can't defend himself?" Well, if that happens, he might be killed in the fight. But that's what he's facing anyway. This way, he's got at least a chance at living. If he got out he could get hit by a car, too, and his teeth wouldn't save him.

[edit on 7/31/2009 by chiron613]

omfg poor dogs....if theres one thing that peeves me more is the labeling of dogs as agressive or dangerous dogs. 100 % of the time dogs become this way through its owners. That is not to say the owners are mistreating the dogs but they are failing to meet the dogs needs and therefore the dogs get frustrated start to get snappy just like any human would if they are not being useful or do not have the chance for a good workout

All of my pets have been spayed, including the one we put down for behavioral reasons.

It's surprising that the Veterinary Dental Association or whatever endorses this at all.

But, I don't think it's because of the rabies vaccine. Tons of pets get the rabies vaccine, and it's pretty much necessary. You can't take your pet to the vet around here if they're not up to date on vaccines, you can't board them, you can't adopt a new one from most places... and what happens if a rabid animal gets inside your house, or runs into your pet outside? It's way worth it, I think. I think it's irresponsible not to vaccinate your pets.

I'm just worried about the problems that this could cause for the dog if it ever gets out or needs to defend itself, and I'm wondering about the future. I thought we were working away from this, with the decreases in declawing and everything. You're right that it wouldn't save him from being runover. But I'm sure it feels weird, hopefully he won't have problems eating.

I'm sure they would never have done it if they thought it was an awful idea. But I don't know, I hope they tried medications and chemical therapy first.

It is weird though, because my friend has a dog who had to be put down for biting. They would have taken it away from her anyway. In any case, they probably should have taken the dog away from this woman. Usually that's how they work it.

Animals can be very aggressive under one owner, but sweet as pie under another. It could also be an environmental factor. Who knows.

[edit on 7/31/2009 by ravenshadow13]

reply to post by ravenshadow13


I have had bad experiences with vaccinations with all 3 of my babies. Two weeks after my 10 yr old cat got her shots, she developed Diabetes. I mean like BAM! all the sudden. The vet said it could have been the vaccinations that caused her pancreas to stop making insulin. Well, after 9 more years of managing her illness, she passed.
My 8 yr old dog got her vaccinations and then 3 weeks later I found her lying down and unable to get up. When I looked at her eyes, I thought she had a stroke. No, her spleen was eating up her platelets. She has been on a daily dose of steroids for 4 yrs to suppress her immune system so that she is able to make platelets.
I then realized that these da*n vaccinations were killing my babies, so we stopped immunizing my boy. He still developed side effects though. He developed a large benign cyst on the back of his neck (where they always gave the shots) along with a few others in different areas.
I did some searching and found out that dogs are immune after their 2nd series of shots. Rabies vacc. actually lasts 10 yrs, but the best reform they've been able to accomplish in some cities is every 3yrs for rabies.
My mom's dog developed a tumor at her rabies injection site and it also changed the color of her hair, just on that spot. My work mate's cat also developed tumors after vaccination.
Why do you think vets are giving shots in the hind legs now? Because if cancer develops from the vaccine behind the neck where they used to put the shots, it is much harder to treat, but if it develops on the leg, they can just CUT IT OFF.
The problem is mainly OVER-VACCINATING. It's all about the money!!!!

You don't have to take my word for it, look at the sites I posted above. one is written by a VET.


[edit on 31-7-2009 by sickofitall2012]

reply to post by ravenshadow13


This ranks right up there with surgically removing the dog's vocal chords...because a dog owner didn't want to hear the dog BARK

reply to post by sickofitall2012


I'm not saying your wrong. I just know that I will always, always vaccinate my pets. Some pets are more prone to reaction, just like people. It also depends on the vet that you go to, the age and quality of the vaccines, the whole bit. It could also be coincidence. It's a matter of personal choice, really, but my cats are indoor cats and I still get them vaccinated against everything. They're fine.

My mom's old cat had diabetes and cancer (had a leg removed, too) and lived to be 17.

I also don't know if any vaccine side effects could render organs like the spleen useless. I'm not a veterinarian. But it seems very strange to me. You could just have some very unfortunate circumstances.

10 years old is middle age for most breeds of cats, and old age in others. And 9 can be an old age for some breeds of dog. It also sounds like your pets were vaccinated before, if they were going to have a reaction to the vaccines I think it would have happened the first time that they got them. Not years later.

reply to post by Aggie Man


That's exactly what I was thinking, too.
They'll bring back the declawing. Why not remove all their fur so they don't shed, either?

The perfect pet.

reply to post by ravenshadow13


declawing a cat is an awful thing to do. I remember reading up on it and seeing how big of an operation that is.
As for this woman...its better than having it put down, for sure, but still...seems like an extreme option.

The general safety of our population I think would trump one's emotional desires about an animal. If all else has failed, then maybe just maybe so has the dog. Just put it down and be done with it. We will all be eating dog in a few decades with the impending global social collapse anyways, might as well disconnect ourselves emotionally from them now.

reply to post by geek101


When we got our first cat ten years ago, the veterinarians were actually recommending it.

But last year when we got the new one, we never even considered it. It's cruel. They remove an entire joint. Disgusting.

I think that if something is really wrong with this dog's behavior, and it's been resistant to change... filing it's teeth down isn't going to prevent it from causing problems.