Chemical Trails: Are we being sprayed?

I donno

what happened, sorry

[edit on 8-8-2009 by sanchoearlyjones]

To phage, and the rest of the debunker's, we've proven chaff is being thrown into the air in mass. Weather report's from all over the globe are talking about the fact that it can create cloud like images on their radar.

Do we agree on that? It's a yes, or no...

answers from weedwacker, phage, and chadwickus

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones


"Proof"??

Not chaff in the sense you've been hoping, not for the reasons you emulate.

Sorry if I missed your "proof", I've taken a few days to have my hand surgically removed from my face.

I have no clue what's going on


I'm going now to look for demons possessing computers threads.

[edit on 8-8-2009 by sanchoearlyjones]

sorry

again

[edit on 8-8-2009 by sanchoearlyjones]

Originally posted by sanchoearlyjones
To phage, and the rest of the debunker's, we've proven chaff is being thrown into the air in mass. Weather report's from all over the globe are talking about the fact that it can create cloud like images on their radar.

No-one has ever denied this. Its been well known since WWII.

But chaff is not visible from the ground - it only appears on radar. And in the UK at least it isn't an issue. There is no chaff. Elsewhere it only occurs on odd occasions in association with military activity - maybe once or twice anywhere in the world in any given year? The fact that it's only once been an issue in Europe (as per German TV footage) shows it's not really a major issue and is in any case only really a nuisance for meteorologists.

Originally posted by weedwhacker

Originally posted by Udontknowme
Thought people might find this interesting. A plane leaving chemtrails, within view of the passenger from another ac.

ONCE AGAIN, those are normal contrails being formed, due to the hot engine exhaust and its effect on the air it is flying through.

Exactly. It shows the creation of deadly clouds of dihydrogen monoxide crystals - something which are seriously being investigated with regards their contribution to global warming.

I do wonder if those trying to imply they are something different have an anti-AGW agenda here?

Originally posted by weedwhacker

AND, you say the Gov't can't control volcanoes to pump sulphur dioxde??? Prove it!!!!!

Yeah, how silly of me to think we could control an erupting volcano.


reply to post by Chadwickus

I would have said so, if you're going to make a volcano erupt, you'd want to be able to stop it or run the risk of making the planet inhospitable altogether.

Originally posted by Essan
As you've now gone from chaff to sulphur I'm assuming that your premise is that someone is spraying something for some reason.

Considering there are many elements being considered, it's not illogical to discuss them, and as sulphur has been mentioned as an option, I thought I would provide some information about it.

To gain a quick cool by 2050, building a deflector in orbit and sowing the stratosphere with fine sulphur particles are the best bet. But they also carry “a heavy burden of risk.” The particles have to be replenished, and the sunshade would need maintenance. Any breakdown would cause temperatures to rise at a stroke.

Source

Originally posted by EssanYou have no idea who what or why but you refuse to believe that the government wouldn't spray us and therefore they must be spraying us. Is that right?

No, it's not right. I believe the air is being sprayed, by certain Government agencies and the reason I believe is two fold.

1. FACT, it is undisputed that they have done it before, with admissions from the U.K, Germany and the U.S, and they did so without informing the public, so have no doubt that it is possible it is going on today for similar reasons as they did before.

2. Geoengineering has been discussed for many years, and believe that to be another reason for doing so.

I wonder how long before they come out and say, "oh don't worry, it's good for us, like flouride is".

reply to post by Neo-V™


Neo, your own link in the post above was discussing plans suggested for, maybe, 2050!!

That sort of project, if even possible to implement, would be on such a scale, massive in scope, there isn't even technology, yet, to make it a viable option.

You have to realize the logistics of this alleged "spraying", the sheer massive size of the area of the Earth, in square kilometers, ( not to mention the 3D aspects, the vertical components, too ) and the limited amount of any payload that could be carried aloft on a given mission.

What is being claimed as "widespread chemtrails" is just not technologically possible, short of having Harry Potter wave his magic wand...

The exhaust gases from jet airplane engines pollute. BUT, they pale in comparison to all of the ground transportation vehicles on this planet, and the multitude of dirty, polluting factories and industries, ALL of which do their polluting low, and close to the ground level, with far more virulent results on Human's health.

The ideas being discussed of high-altitude, stratospheric level possiblilities are being looked into as extremely drastic measures, should it be confirmed that a destabilizing runaway temperature increase in the Earth's ecosystem is caused by Human activity. However, we really don't know enough to be sure of anything --- SOME people think we're ultimately headed for a new Ice Age, for criminy's sake!

I, for one, advocate NO pesky intervention policies, other than trying to reduce dependence on the forms of energy that pollute so heavily. The Earth's own ecosystem is far, far more resilent and better able to take care of itself, if left to its own devices. Planet has lasted for this long. Humans are a pest, and our numbers are lorger than ever, but we are still puny in comparison.

For a rounded discussion of "chemtrails", those who believe in them should try to stick to at least one reason, because so far I see two camps, the "Climate manipulation" camp ( and, we already know about localized cloud seeding ) and, the "Poison the populace for population control" camp, who are convinced that poisons are raining down on us. Wouldn't it just be a lot easier to poison people another way??? Food supply? Water supply? Cigarettes? ( Oh, wait...already done that. )

Originally posted by weedwhacker
, your own link in the post above was discussing plans suggested for, maybe, 2050!!

"To gain a quick cool by 2050", that doesn't mean that is when they might start testing and spraying us, that means we should have done it by then.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
The ideas being discussed of high-altitude, stratospheric level possiblilities are being looked into as extremely drastic measures, should it be confirmed that a destabilizing runaway temperature increase in the Earth's ecosystem is caused by Human activity.

The following excerpts detail the preferred geoengineering Mitigations for reducing greenhouse gasses, global warming and radiation from space. Quoted from: Policy Implications of Greenhouse Warming: Mitigation, Adaptation, and the Science Base - Panel on Policy Implications of Greenhouse Warming

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2e6d8276562c.gif[/atsimg]

-----

Preliminary characterizations of some of the possibilities that might be considered are provided below.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/33334c31e109.gif[/atsimg]

Source

We know it's been discussed for over 20 years as being an option, it's clearly the cheapest, and wouldn't be as difficult as you say it would be.

reply to post by Neo-V™


It looks like they took their advice in 1992! I wish I would have found that. What more proof do they need. NONE.

Good find!

reply to post by wonderworld


Don't you see all of those things were just recommendations? Studies??

From 1992, now...at least we're getting warmer!

Space Mirrors?? Sounds like a far, far better thing we do...than messing with particulates on a Global scale. Plenty of potential volcanic eruptions pending to do that for us already. At least tech like mirrors in orbit can be controlled/managed. ( Big prob with debris in orbit, though...)

Anyway, Neo's data shows nothing to do with poisons, does it???

My point is, excepting the occasional local cloud seeding project, or pest control spray, there isn't some massive conspiracy directed towards Human health. ( Other than fears of warming, rising sea levels, etc... ) Mitigation of those dangers is looked at, out of an abundance of responsibility, rather than doing nothing. I still think our planet is fully capable of rebounding from any influences of Man, though!

Originally posted by Neo-V™

No, it's not right. I believe the air is being sprayed, by certain Government agencies and the reason I believe is two fold.

1. FACT, it is undisputed that they have done it before, with admissions from the U.K, Germany and the U.S, and they did so without informing the public, so have no doubt that it is possible it is going on today for similar reasons as they did before.

2. Geoengineering has been discussed for many years, and believe that to be another reason for doing so.

So because low level spraying (or ground dispersal) experiments have occurred in the past, none of which were visible to the public, and because some scientists have proposed high altitude dispersal of sulphur particles - which also would be invisible from the ground - you conclude that what meteorlogists think are contrails and have been studying for decades are actually chemtrails and not clouds of dihydrogen monoxide crystals after all?

Talk about non sequitur reasoning .......

reply to post by weedwhacker




Hi weedwhacker,

Sulfer, iron, dust particles and soot. I guess it depends on the amounts and their toxcitity and fall out. There is mst likely other chemicals not mentioned.

Technology has grown a lot since then. I too like the mirror idea. Yes we have so much space junk floating around already. Have you seen this video of that stuff orbiting the earth. It looks like a trash can.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Don't you see all of those things were just recommendations? Studies?

Yes, that suggest spraying the air with particles might be a good idea.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
From 1992, now...at least we're getting warmer!

And that just goes to show it's been thought of.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Anyway, Neo's data shows nothing to do with poisons, does it???

No, you're right, but what it does show, is that what you say the Government aren't/won't do, is actually being thought of, and has been for a long time, and if they didn't tell the public about actual tests being conducted on them, is not safe to assume that they wouldn't about something like this? .

Originally posted by weedwhacker
there isn't some massive conspiracy directed towards Human health.

While I can't say for certain that they are, you have to ask yourself, how do you know they're not?...

The Ministry of Defence turned large parts of the country into a giant laboratory to conduct a series of secret germ warfare tests on the public.

A government report just released provides for the first time a comprehensive official history of Britain's biological weapons trials between 1940 and 1979.

Many of these tests involved releasing potentially dangerous chemicals and micro-organisms over vast swaths of the population without the public being told.

While details of some secret trials have emerged in recent years, the 60-page report reveals new information about more than 100 covert experiments.

The report reveals that military personnel were briefed to tell any 'inquisitive inquirer' the trials were part of research projects into weather and air pollution.

Source

Originally posted by Essan
So because low level spraying (or ground dispersal) experiments have occurred in the past, none of which were visible to the public"

Can you elaborate on that?

Originally posted by Essan
which also would be invisible from the ground

What goes up, must come down.

Originally posted by Essan
you conclude that what meteorlogists think are contrails and have been studying for decades are actually chemtrails and not clouds of dihydrogen monoxide crystals after all?

I think what you're not grasping, is that no one is saying contrails don't and never have existed if thats you think is being said.

*********special access programs********

In government there are three basic lines of defense against 'sensitive' documentation. They are in order classified, secret, top secret............... See everyone at ATS is well over the government grades...That's why were all so smart. This grading system, and all official US documents become subject to the Freedom Of Information Act. Meaning at some point there is no hiding it.

In order to assure lasting secrets, the boys in black, or should I say the shadow government/power broker's came up with SAP's long ago.

All truly Black Ops are placed in SAPS.

These Special Access Programs are always done through the large private military industrial complex. In this way, of hiding it through multinational corporations there is never any government oversight.

The congress does fund these corporations, and there is even a Special Access Program ***Oversight Committee***SAPOC. However, they are privy to nothing more than the possibility of said programs; which means many times they don't even have a name for them.

Now, the way in which a SAP operates is to commence, and complete well over 90% of said project in public view through various fronts. Once, the project reaches a nexus point, then it is said a failure, and 'dropped'.

The programs used originally would be of a nature where it would be common knowledge to the average person...Eg. weather manipulation/modification, scientific studies into medicine/DNA, etc.

Later it is picked up by the SAP, and the final never to be known stages of said program are finished.
At the point the public program is deemed a "failure" the a large majority of the SAP funding is put toward a disinformation campaign.

Usually a high percentage of the SAP program funding is put directly into program security, and disinformation campaign.... The campaign launched weaves a tail between the original public program, and the newer SAP; in so doing it makes the *******whistle blowers******** look flustered, and disorganized.


For myself considering the nature of the above, for any pertinent information coming to light, which helps illustrate a SAP, then it deserves a little room for respect, study, and observation.

CHEMTRAILS ARE REAL

Originally posted by sanchoearlyjones
*********special access programs********

In government there are three basic lines of defense against 'sensitive' documentation. They are in order classified, secret, top secret............... See everyone at ATS is well over the government grades...That's why were all so smart. This grading system, and all official US documents become subject to the Freedom Of Information Act. Meaning at some point there is no hiding it.

In order to assure lasting secrets, the boys in black, or should I say the shadow government/power broker's came up with SAP's long ago.

All truly Black Ops are placed in SAPS.

These Special Access Programs are always done through the large private military industrial complex. In this way, of hiding it through multinational corporations there is never any government oversight.

The congress does fund these corporations, and there is even a Special Access Program ***Oversight Committee***SAPOC. However, they are privy to nothing more than the possibility of said programs; which means many times they don't even have a name for them.

Now, the way in which a SAP operates is to commence, and complete well over 90% of said project in public view through various fronts. Once, the project reaches a nexus point, then it is said a failure, and 'dropped'.

The programs used originally would be of a nature where it would be common knowledge to the average person...Eg. weather manipulation/modification, scientific studies into medicine/DNA, etc.

Later it is picked up by the SAP, and the final never to be known stages of said program are finished.
At the point the public program is deemed a "failure" the a large majority of the SAP funding is put toward a disinformation campaign.

Usually a high percentage of the SAP program funding is put directly into program security, and disinformation campaign.... The campaign launched weaves a tail between the original public program, and the newer SAP; in so doing it makes the *******whistle blowers******** look flustered, and disorganized.


For myself considering the nature of the above, for any pertinent information coming to light, which helps illustrate a SAP, then it deserves a little room for respect, study, and observation.

CHEMTRAILS ARE REAL

Clap, clap, clap. Gets a standing ovation.

Keep it up amigo.

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones


Well, unlike others I'm not going to give you the clap for that.

You made a lot of claims, with solid innuendo and rampant speculation, with just a soupcon of an authoritative tone to actually sound like you knew what you were taling about, AS IF it's true, in the way you portray it.

AND, your summation? "CHEMTRAILS ARE REAL"

ZERO substance, ZERO evidence and ZERO information as to what these alleged "CHEMTRAILS" actually are, or their purpose. You just set it up, dropped the 'chemical' bomb, and ran away to see what explodes.

YOU already know that commercial passenger jets can't be "spraying" anything, except the pollution that is the natural result of burning fossil fuel.

YOU allude to some nefarious "TOP SECRET" something or other, a 'shadow government' program ( which is the ultimate refuge of one who has no other information, just speculation ) but you show NOTHING to support your claims.

YOU have continually ignored the science, it has been offered to you free of charge, just takes some intellectual honesty to see it as it is.

Just as a reminder, as to how ludicrous this "chemtrail" concept is, consider the sheer AMOUNT of material necessary to be able to sufficiently contaminate the atmosphere, so much that it actually reaches its intended targets ( people ). Please research airborne contaminates, and how many ppm ( parts per million ) of concentration would be necessary, for the poison of your choice, in aerosol form, to affect a Human's respiration, and cause sufficient harm as you are alleging.

THEN, calculate the size of the airmasses involved, say first determine the square kilometers area of a major city, then take into account, also, the altitude...so now you have to think in CUBIC KMs....is mucho gusto amounts of air!!!

How much material can one airplane carry, as payload, on each mission?? Airplanes all have a maximum operating weight, which is basically the airplane ( and required crew ), the fuel and payload, up to the maximum.

How many airplanes?? How many man-hours?? Where are these "spraying" airplanes coming from?? Being serviced??

You see, a little bit of clear thinking and logic, and the "chemtrail" plan takes on a whole new dimension of difficulty.

AM I MAKING SENSE, yet???

BTW --- I have no other vested interest in this, except to prevent ignorance from blossoming, if only I am able to, as a small gesture of random kindness to utter strangers via the InterTubes.......

reply to post by weedwhacker

Well, unlike others I'm not going to give you the clap for that.

You made a lot of claims, with solid innuendo and rampant speculation, with just a soupcon of an authoritative tone to actually sound like you knew what you were taling about, AS IF it's true, in the way you portray it.

I guess that means the President in the video was running for refuge as well?

YOU allude to some nefarious "TOP SECRET" something or other, a 'shadow government' program ( which is the ultimate refuge of one who has no other information, just speculation ) but you show NOTHING to support your claims.

See sight listed below for who all has funding into them


www.militaryindustrialcomplex.com...

YOU already know that commercial passenger jets can't be "spraying" anything, except the pollution that is the natural result of burning fossil fuel.

I never said regular 'commercial' jet's; you did. From the get go I was pointing towards Black Ops.

BTW --- I have no other vested interest in this, except to prevent ignorance from blossoming, if only I am able to, as a small gesture of random kindness to utter strangers via the InterTubes.......

Never said you do, and I find it odd you'd have to say that?

CHEMTRAILS ARE REAL.

[edit on 9-8-2009 by sanchoearlyjones]