Obama Goes Easy on Shoe Bomber

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
Saddam DID NOT start Gulf War I. Saddam invaded Kuwait --

Which was the start of Gulf War I. We had agreements with Kuwait. Saddam knew that. Saddam went in and then so did we.

based on James Baker saying to him "the US has no policy on that."

Irrelevant to the fact that Saddam broke UN ceasefire resolutions
which caused the Iraq war we have now.

Saddam lost Gulf War I. I really don't see how this ADDs to your first argument.

This is the entire reason the UN cease fire resolutions were put in place.
Saddam lost. He agreed to the ceasefire. He broke the ceasefire knowing
full well that force would be used.

justify our starving the country or massacring 200,000 fleeing troops.

Irrelevant to the fact that Saddam broke UN ceasefire resolutions
which caused the Iraq war we have now.

Saddam complied with the UN Cease Fire resolutions

No. He did not.

The invasion of Iraq was illegal.

No it was not. It was approved by our government so it was not illegal as far as our government was concerned. It was fully in line with what should have happened when Saddam broke the UN resolutions so it wasn't 'illegal' according to the UN either.

But the US has veto power in the UN and 6,000 nukes -- so nobody is going to get in the way of our Imperialism.

Blame-america-first irrelevancy to the fact that Saddam broke UN ceasefire resolutions which caused the Iraq war we have now.

AND ALL OFF TOPIC TO THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD -
OBAMA GOES EASY ON SHOE BOMBER.



[edit on 8/1/2009 by FlyersFan]

It seems like there are a few people in here trying to imply that what the shoe bomber was trying to do is somehow 'ok', 'cause apparently, America deserved it. Really now... It is curious how this thread has degenerated into some kind of anti-America hate rag, probably because the deflectors can't think of anything to say about the topic-at-hand and just prefer to spew their overstuffed rhetoric about how America is evil and apparently, the root of all evil. I ask what that has to do with the OT? Not much as far as I can see. I don't think convicted terrorists should be let into a general pop where they can freely converse with other convicted terrorists. But then again, they let the convicted murderers talk to each other so I really can't see why you wouldn't. As for a prisoner having 'rights', well that point is entirely up for grabs, as I feel that no one truly has any 'rights' anywhere in the world, let alone, a convict in prison. Leave the talk about Imperialist America to other threads, hell, open one yourself and you guys can agree with each other all day long. Fact is, he was caught red-handed trying to kill people, and therefor should be treated as the attempted murderer that he is.

Chrono

Originally posted by GorehoundLarry
Glad you aren't aware of something called logic.
But it's ok, it's your choice live with your head in the sand..

Oh what a clever and grown up post.
When is school back in session again?
I cant' wait for summer to be over.

Originally posted by Ownification
Do you really believe this guy is so bad that he shouldn't even have contact with co-prisoners?

He tried to blow up a plane with hundreds of people on it.
He declared war against America and wants to destroy it.
Hundreds of millions of Americans live here.
The guy wants to be bad. Let's not give him the opportunity.
That would be moronic.

Why do you act as if this guy has started a war against your GOD?It seems to me that Americans are worshiping America. The new GOD, don't disrespect its symbol hence the flag or you will get arrested.

:shk: Oh brother. Hey buddy ... making sure that a guy who wants to kill as many Americans as possible is locked up for good is in no way 'worshiping the flag'. Get a grip and get a life. :shk:

Originally posted by Ownification
Read that and tell me if it makes sense to you. How the hell can an idea start a war against you?

Thick much? People have the ideas and they go to war based on those ideas.

Actually no one declared anything until you went and invaded a country, removed its government based on freaking suspicion that Osama bin Laden being involved in the 9/11 attacks.

Wrong. Radical Islam declared war against us decades ago.
Oh ... And UBL admitted that he pulled of 9/11.

Taliban asked for evidence, if evidence were to be provided they would hand Osama to the US.

And you believe the Taliban? That's pathetic.

So who started the war?

More blame-america-first chowderhead material. :shk:
Answer - Radical Islam. Deal with it.

Originally posted by Ownification
Now let's examine the actions of the shoe bomber and the motives behind it.

Sure ...
1 - He's a moron and he's unbalanced.
2 - He belongs to a bloodthirsty religious cult.

List of Islamic Terror Attacks

The irrational America haters are out in full force.
Spew hate against America, twist the truth to suit their agenda, but pity the bomber who tried to kill hundreds. Brilliant. :shk:

Originally posted by truthtothemasses
Only idiots fear morons like Richard Reid.

Tell that to the hundreds of people he tried to kill on that airplane.
Oh .. and 'morons' are usually the ones that are the most dangerous.

I don't know you Flyer's fan but I can honestly say that I do not like you at all.

I don't care. that's your problem.

I can't respect people with an opinion that fears dying.

I have no idea what that means.
Dont' bother explaining it.
I don't care enough to want to know what you mean.

It seems that you suffer from a fear phobia ...

1 - I am not the topic of this thread.
2 - You can stuff your armchair psychology.
3 - I have a psychology degree and know for a fact I have no 'fear phobia'.
4 - Wanting convicted terrorists to be locked away in a secure manner is not 'fear phobia'. It's common sense.



[edit on 8/1/2009 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by Ownification
I mean common more people die from drunk driving then terrorist attacks yearly.

- As long as we are tough on terrorists that will continue to be true.

- If the numbers of deaths by terrorists is lower then drunk driving accidents that's not an excuse to 'lighten up' on the terrorists.

Originally posted by truthtothemasses
Over 4,000 troops die in Iraq for absolutely nothing and people like flyersfan is okay with it.

You ASSume too much.

I'll probably be banned again.

If you were banned before then you should still be banned.
Opening multiple accounts because of being banned is against the rules.

Originally posted by open_eyeballs
It is common practice in every new administartion, and it is well understood that it will happen.

That doesn't mean we should all sit back and laugh as the POTUS and those he appoints in the justice dept go soft on convicted terrorists.

They wish to highlight pieces of the puzzle to fit their agenda.

It's just the plain truth. Obama is going soft on terrorists.
He's put into place people who he knows will be soft on terrorists.
Exposing that isn't 'agenda' ... it's just telling the truth. Deal with it.

the OP is alluding to the fact she thinks Obama is letting terrorists plan terrorism in our own prisons or "plot Jihad". Therefore making Obama complicit in any future terrorist acts against the U.S.

I'm not 'alluding' to anything. I'm stating it straight out.
- Obama is going soft on terrorists.
- His policies will allow for terrorists to plan jihad while in prison.
- Obama would definately be complicit in future terrorist acts that came from this.

In this new form of extremism people believe none of these individuals who have been taken into custody deserve a fair trial to determine there guilt or innocence.

Off topic and poor deflection attempt.
The Shoe Bomber is already convicted of attempted mass murder.
He has admitted his guilt as well. He's proud of it.
He hasn't given up Jihad.

As for the rest of your blah blah blah .... Wanting terrorists to be locked up and secure without any means of continuing the Jihad they have sworn to is not 'political extremism' no matter how you, and your agenda, try to paint it as such.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
The Shoe Bomber is already convicted of attempted mass murder.
He has admitted his guilt as well. He's proud of it.
He hasn't given up Jihad.

As for the rest of your blah blah blah .... Wanting terrorists to be locked up and secure without any means of continuing the Jihad they have sworn to is not 'political extremism' no matter how you, and your agenda, try to paint it as such.

Agreed FF. Deranged, retarded, delusional or whatever the case, allowing this shoe-bomber latitude while not necessarily dangerous in his case sets the standard and a precedence for like action with more dangerous creeps. That's what this is about, undermining what little peace of mind exists. When you are confronted by this endless s***storm of illogical behavior it wears you down. If it does not you have already been conquered. President Obama, much like Bush, lays siege to logic. The fronts are many and it divides the country's attention. What was to be gained from this action? Only chaos and division. Even when the president fails he succeeds in that it has worn down the thinking citizens just a little more. This is a battle of resources. Ours are limited and his are endless thanks to us.

reply to post by FlyersFan

The Shoe Bomber is already convicted of attempted mass murder.
He has admitted his guilt as well. He's proud of it.
He hasn't given up Jihad.

I wasnt referring to the shoe bomber. I was referring to the accused "terrorists" that have been held in secret prisons for the past 8 years without a trial or fair hearing. In fact 2 of them were freed not to long ago after new evidence came to light about their innocence. If thats not a tell tale sign about the recent immoralities of the U.S. governments actions for the past 8+ years, then I dont know what is.

Your anti -American views that we should be holding people without trial in prisons outside the U.S. is sickening. That is not what America was founded under, and your constant anti-Obama (no matter what he does)pro FOX news extreme right wing rhetoric threads are a clear cut case of political pandering and your bias.

Until a more patriotic approach is taken with your criticism you will have more detractors than listeners. Claiming Obama or any President is complicit in terorrism against his own people before hand will get you no where and only make visible what is already suspected. An ignorance of the highest degree. Possibly motivated by racial and religious hatred.

And of course you would take the easy way out and label the rest of my post blah, blah, blah. You dont have the gumption to adress the truth that my post goes into and calls you out on your crap. That is my agenda, and it always will be when there is hateful, spiteful people like you doing there best to sway peoples mind with no objectivity what-so-ever in their arguments.



[edit on 1-8-2009 by open_eyeballs]

reply to post by FlyersFan



You don't understand how dangerous your ideas are at all. What is a terrorist in your mind??? We have the rule of law in this country where you are innocent until proven guilty. When you label a person a "terrorist" you have already convicted that person. We are getting to a point, in today's backwards world, that any crime can you declared a terrorist act.

The word terror or terrorists only works on people who have not grown into adulthood and their are millions of these fearful "boogey man is in the closet" types in America.

I understand, you love Disneyland and you want it to stay that way. But you grew up not ever understanding that Disneyland was a theme park made for kids. Please stop the fear mongering, grow up, and leave Disneyland.

Originally posted by open_eyeballs
I wasnt referring to the shoe bomber. I was referring to the accused "terrorists" ....

Off topic.

Your anti -American views that we should be holding people without trial in prisons outside the U.S. is sickening.

Off topic deflection.
No where on this thread did I say such a thing.

Possibly motivated by racial and religious hatred.

Oh lordie .. he pulled the race card!

You dont have the gumption to adress the truth that my post goes into and calls you out on your crap.

Actually, your crap was all off topic and therefore it wasn't worthy of even addressing.

Insisting that a convicted terrorist be treated like a convicted terrorist isn't 'crap'. Insisting that the POTUS install people in the Justice Dept who want us to be safe isn't crap either.

hateful, spiteful people like you

Suuuuuuuuuure ... the fact that I want a convicted terrorist locked away without any means of continuing his sworn Jihad against the American people ... that's being 'hateful and spiteful' ....

The only person being 'hateful and spiteful' here is YOU.
Hateful and spiteful while being off topic and spitting into the wind.

Originally posted by truthtothemasses
We have the rule of law in this country where you are innocent until proven guilty.

The Shoe Bomber was convicted and he's proud of his conviction.

When you label a person a "terrorist" you have already convicted that person.

Oh lord ...

The courts found him guilty of trying to blow up a plane full of people. He's a terrorist. He admits it. He's proud of it.

Please stop the fear mongering, grow up, and leave Disneyland.

Considering your post it's rather comical for you to tell me to grow up.

immediate edit to fix quote

[edit on 8/1/2009 by FlyersFan]

reply to post by FlyersFan

Holder wants these terrorists who are waging war against America put into civilian prison

Not off topic. Your ugly agenda rears its head again. You wont win. your ideologies wont win. No matter how much venom you wish to spew..or regurgitate from your political Gods...

Its un American and nothing you have spewed has been constitutionally sound. Torture previously mentioned by you in other threads, or detaining anyone outside the U.S. without fair trial alluded by you in this thread.

Give up neo-con...Its over for you.

Originally posted by Ownification

Originally posted by XTexan
reply to post by Ownification

 

Well he did, take a bomb on an airplane and try to blow it up... so ya I'd say he ranks up at the top of the worst that are in that prison...

Then shouldn't ex-President Bush be at number 1 rank? Due to the fact that in result of his policy more then a million innocent people have been killed?

This thread isn't about Bush and his possible war crimes, though I agree legal action should be taken against Bush.

This thread is about a terrorist who tried to blow up a plane full of passengers, and he would have if he would have been smart enough to bring a lighter instead of matches. He has been proven guilty in the court of law. And as I said in an earlier post, if he wants to send mail let him. ALL mail going in and out of a prison is subject to being checked, and in his case it will be. Let him join general population if he wants, he'll be offed by the Aryan Nation in no time. Keeping him away from the rest of the inmates is for his protection.

[edit on 1-8-2009 by XTexan]

Holder wants these terrorists who are waging war against America put into civilian prison

Yes off topic. No where in that post did I say anything about putting people in overseas prisons without trial. In fact, I made a very clear note about how Holder wants his law firm to handle the terrorists. He's wanting to funnel them through his firm .... much the same way Cheney wanted Haliburton to get all the war contracts via no bid.

So you are not only off topic, but obviously wrong.

Your ugly agenda rears its head again. You wont win. your ideologies wont win. No matter how much venom you wish to spew..or regurgitate from your political Gods...

Calm down and go take your meds .... The only one spewing venom is you. The only one regurgitating from their political gods is you.

Exposing the FACT that Obama is going easy on a convicted terrorist who has not denounced jihad against America is NOT 'spewing or regurgitating.

previously mentioned by you in other threads,

Other threads are not the topic ... The Shoe Bomber and the poor behavior of Obama and his appointed Justice Department officials is.

detaining anyone outside the U.S. without fair trial alluded by you in this thread.

Nope. I didn't say it .. I didn't even allude to it.
Nothing on this thread even comes close to saying that.
Ya' wanna' quit spamming the board with your off topic lies?

Give up neo-con...Its over for you.

Are you drunk or something??
None of the partisan bunk you have posted even comes close to making any sense.

Originally posted by XTexan
Let him join general population if he wants, he'll be offed by the Aryan Nation in no time.

National Review
The problem with that thought is that his fellow inmates are fellow jihadists.
These are the people that are in his prison -

Ramzi Yousef and his three co-conspirators in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing; 9/11 conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui; “Millennium bomber” Ahmed Ressam; “Dirty bomber” Jose Padilla; Wadih el-Hage, Osama Bin Laden’s personal secretary, convicted in the 1998 U.S. Embassy bombing that killed 247 people

reply to post by FlyersFan

No where in that post did I say anything about putting people in overseas prisons without trial.

No? So where should the alleged terrorists go? Outer space? They have to come to America, and will be given the right to a fair trial and a defense attorney and you hate that.

So you are not only off topic, but obviously wrong.

Says you. You may not come out and say things directly, but your cowardly neo con rhetoric is easy to interpret.

Calm down and go take your meds ....

My sentiments exactly...But I would hate for your Obama paranoia to scare you away from posting here. What other drivvel would I have to expose?

The only one regurgitating from their political gods is you.

really?? Give an example...good luck....you have nothing, so you repeat my words back to me...

Exposing the FACT that Obama is going easy on a convicted terrorist who has not denounced jihad against America is NOT 'spewing or regurgitating.

I wouldnt doubt for a second you got this from your Gods from Fox news...or one of their puppet sources

Other threads are not the topic ...

No but this threaad just falls into the theme you and your quacking chicks like to constantly barage ATS with. And you dont like that that fact it is pointed out. Too bad...

Are you drunk or something??

Reading the stupidity such as OPs such as this one sure makes me feel that way...

reply to post by FlyersFan


Ah I see, well... I still don't see a problem with letting them talk. Video and audio recordings of such talks could lead to valuable intel that we could use.

And if we don't let them, solitary confinement is the legal option that we should use. We have plenty of convincts serving in solitary confinement now, no problems here with letting him rot.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Ownification
Why does a rapist rape? Why does American Jets bomb my people? Why do American drones kill my cousins? Why do American missiles hit my brothers?

See if you connect the dots you would see all these actions are for self interest, have you ever heard of the American interest? I'm sure you have.

Now let's examine the actions of the shoe bomber and the motives behind it. A rapist rapes for self interest, the Jets that bomb countries are self interest but this man's motives were due to American atrocities around the world.

Now if you were smart you would connect the smaller dots which are farther away from the central dots. OK here is what the farther dots says if you connect them. It says due to the fact that America is a Democratic society, the civilians chose the government, since the freaking government which is responsible for many atrocities across the world is selected by the American people, it means in certain individuals heads that you are as responsible as your government.

It makes perfectly sense, every time America kills Muslims in their drone attacks, missiles or jets Muslims will kill Americans in response. No justice no Peace. You want Muslims to say 'ohh don't worry you just killed my brother, I don't mind'. Knowing the culture and values of Muslims why would America even step into this uncertain direction in the first place. Every time you kill a Muslim 20 of his/her relatives will come to haunt you.

The problem is you can't hide these days; you are not safe even in your country. If Americans believe that their wrong doings will go unpunished then they are way too over their heads, just like the Germans before WWII.

Read the above quote, my previous reply to someone else. It has all the answers in to who started the war. Radical Islam is an idea, like lets say ahhh Democracy. Do you hear Muslim going around saying Democracy started a war against Afghanistan or Iraq? It would sound ludacris. The point is that the media has planted in your head a picture of Radical Isalm which probably in your mind is this evil anti-crusade monster.

Come back to reality, America is doing the same Bullox it was doing in Vietnam when you guys started a war against Communism. Not just Vietnam but due to the fact that Americans only remembers wars which they lost we will stick with vietnam. Communists were regarded as terrorists, the funny thing about all of this Bullox is that America has accepted communism now. Soo all those killings in the name of Communism being a bad system, an opressive system, a system which would never work etc etc, the same Bullox they are spewing about Radical Islam today.

This is not about America being Evil, this is about America acting as a Bully in the world stage(just to be fair it is not just America). Osama said that too but Americans trust their leaders rather than some terrorist which you have the right to do, until you realize that your own government has been involved in acts of terrorism 1000 times more so then the Radical Muslims you are soooo afraid of.


Bold writing just for you

[edit on 063131p://31b8 by Ownification]

reply to post by XTexan

This thread isn't about Bush and his possible war crimes, though I agree legal action should be taken against Bush.

This thread is about a terrorist who tried to blow up a plane full of passengers, and he would have if he would have been smart enough to bring a lighter instead of matches. He has been proven guilty in the court of law. And as I said in an earlier post, if he wants to send mail let him. ALL mail going in and out of a prison is subject to being checked, and in his case it will be. Let him join general population if he wants, he'll be offed by the Aryan Nation in no time. Keeping him away from the rest of the inmates is for his protection.

The point I wanted to present was that this guy didn't want to do it because he just woke up one day and felt like it. Do you get what I mean? Go and find out why he wants to do what he wants to do. Most Americans are clueless; the only thing they know is probably what they heard from Western Media about American interests.

The simple point is that America regards these people the same way Communists were treated back in the days. If you remember correctly a huge proxy war was going on all across the world, today the same # is happening, but it has a different smell. To give you an example would be Iraq, when Qassim was chosen democratically by the Iraqi people America couldn't stand it due to his socialist background. The Baath party with the help of CIA organized a successful coup which rid Qassim and opened the door for Saddam Hussein to take over. Muslim blames who for the atrocities which Saddam implemented across the country? Yes you, the people of America. Why the people? Because you guys are the ones saying Democracy is civilians, choosing the government?

Originally posted by FlyersFan

The Weather Underground never hurt anyone

Not for a lack of trying.
They wanted to.
They tried to.
They cost this country $$$ and they terrorized.
What are you .. some kind of Bill Ayers apologist?

If you want to be angry about something -- go for the real issues.

This is a real issue.

Yeah whatever.
This is kind of rhetorical nonsense. The Weather Underground purposely planned on empty buildings. They wanted things to cost money -- because that was what the Comfortable were enjoying from the Vietnam war. Fearing the one Liberal threat we've ever had make a few windows shatter has rationalized every fascist moron's wild fantasies for the past three decades.

A few people trying to stop clear cutting of wilderness slash some tires and put spikes in trees and the Right wing loves to get their flock all bent out of shape over that form of Terrorism. Ooh jeez, zero deaths -- run for the hills and support mountain top removal for coal mines! Maybe 100,000 people die an early death due to our use of Coal. Acceptable losses in modern society. We only seem to worry if no profit is attached. We don't look at real threats -- just the hype on the news.

The US supports all sorts of terrorism around the world -- like the Mech in Iran, which is blowing up real people and is aligned with Al Qaeda.

"Terrorism" is just a word. All war causes terror. It seems that today, it's just a synonym for people angry at the US and false flags.

I'm more likely to die of a cold than the Weather Underground or any terrorism. Well, as long as we keep spending more and more each year on the military.

"This is a real issue?" I think it's kind of pointless to discuss things with the people freaking out about Obama. If you didn't freak out about Bush -- then it's probably about white guys losing their place in the world.

No this isn't a real issue. If you are worried about terrorism -- then worry about the evangelizing of our troops who are returning home blooded and broken. Worry about the Birthers. Worry about these idiots disrupting town halls.


The racists are freaked out about Obama and they are screwing up real issues with fear and nonsense. They look like idiots -- and Health Care, ending the war and dealing with this financial armageddon -- well that will take a back seat to this circus.

And these damn NeoCon and Birther idiots are just the type to get violent. Rush Limbaugh and Fox News are whipping an army of fools into riot mode. On another thread here -- fear, fear and more fear until someone feels justified in defending themselves from their own shadow.

>> But I'm finding it's really pointless having these "debates" on the web. The people who don't get it never get it. And I don't really care about 90% of the responses people have to what I'm saying -- criticism from the clueless.

The biggest terrorist Obama has been soft on has been Bush and Cheney.

In fact, Cheney still has an executive hit squad answerable only to him. Likely they were involved in the military takeover of Honduras; Que accusations of "gasp" drug running.

The CIA is the biggest gun-runner on the planet -- is this an accusation or a compliment?

The school of the Americas trains many military "consultants" in Latin America and they are rife in the officer corps down there. It's not terrorism because CNN and Fox news haven't rung their little bell and told us what they are.

There are real terrorists, but they don't go to prison. We are supposed to believe the government about -- what? People are not suspicious because it's a Black man who is alleged liberal in office? We are told the Miami 7 were going to cause trouble from their FBI handler that gave them the outfits, the idea, and the map. Moronic patsies or misdirected bad guys, or just some poor shmoe they can electrocute enough so that he admits to anything to get the pain to stop.

Soft on some shoe bomber? This guy is supposed to be a threat?

We are still bombing in places we should not be. We have no moral high ground -- we only have more power. Violence is only allowed if sanctioned by those who buy commercials. The big picture is totally missing from this whole topic.