O' bama is not NATURAL born. It is clear. Only a fortnight now...., page 2
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 4 times


reply posted on 31-7-2009 @ 08:27 AM by Hazelnut
reply to post by Southern Guardian



14th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America

14th Amendment

Section I

All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any persons of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

7. Congress intent in including the qualifying phrase "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" was apparently to exclude from the reach of the language children born of diplomatic representatives of foreign state and children born of alien enemies in hostile occupation, both recognized exceptions to the common-law rule of acquired citizenship by birth,

8. as well as children of members of Indian tribes subject to tribal laws.

9. The lower courts have generally held that the citizenship of the parents determines the citizenship of children born on vessels in United States territorial waters or on the high seas.

12. In a subsequent decision, however, the court held that persons who had been statutorily naturalized by being born abroad of at least one American parent could not claim the protection of the first sentence of (1) and that congress could therefore impose a reasonable and non-arbitrary condition subsequent upon their continued retention of United States citizenship.

13. Between these two decisions there is a tension which should call forth further litigation efforts to explore the meaning of the citizenship sentence of the Fourteenth Amendment.

Citizenship of the United States within the meaning of this sentence must be natural and not artificial persons; a corporate body is not a natural citizen of the United States. 14


Naturalization/Naturalisationis the acquisition of citizenship or nationality by somebody who was not a citizen or national of that country when he or she was born. In general, basic requirements for naturalization are that the applicant hold a legal status as a full-time resident for a minimum period of time and that the applicant promise to obey and uphold that country's laws, to which an oath or pledge of allegiance is sometimes added. Some countries also require that a naturalized national must renounce any other citizenship that they currently hold, forbidding dual citizenship, but whether this renunciation actually causes loss of the person's original citizenship will again depend on the laws of the countries involved.


With all of the above in consideration, where does Barak Hussein Obama, aka Barry Soetero, fit?

He is a natural citizen if he was born on a "United States vessel", "territory", or state.

If he was in fact, born in Indonesia, as his grandmother has publicly stated, then he is naturalized.

naturalized U.S. citizens are not eligible to become President of the United
the quote is from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law which is experiencing technical difficulties!!!

Without quoting the entire Constitution, can you clear this up?



Natural-born citizen

Who is a natural-born citizen? Who, in other words, is a citizen at birth, such that that person can be a President someday?

The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." But even this does not get specific enough. As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but it is the law that fills in the gaps.

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

Anyone born inside the United States *
Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.



[edit on 31-7-2009 by Hazelnut]


reply posted on 31-7-2009 @ 08:32 AM by genius/idoit
reply to post by Hazelnut


thanks I was certain I saw that before so I didn't feel a need to reference it.I was only using it to for context in asking if it matters if his mother was single.


reply posted on 31-7-2009 @ 08:41 AM by Southern Guardian
Well thankyou for finally address the constitution.

Originally posted by Hazelnut
reply to
post by Southern Guardian



14th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America

14th Amendment

Section I

All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any persons of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


Makes no mention of whether both parents have to be citizens.

7. Congress intent in including the qualifying phrase "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" was apparently to exclude from the reach of the language children born of diplomatic representatives of foreign state
and children born of alien enemies in hostile occupation, both recognized exceptions to the common-law rule of acquired citizenship by birth,


Obamas mother was a natural born citizen. Obamas father was a foreign exchange student. Obamas father was not a diplomatic representitive neither was he an illigal alien.

8. as well as children of members of Indian tribes subject to tribal laws.

9. The lower courts have generally held that the citizenship of the parents determines the citizenship of children born on vessels in United States territorial waters or on the high seas.

12. In a subsequent decision, however, the court held that persons who had been statutorily naturalized by being born abroad of at least one American parent could not claim the protection of the first sentence of (1) and that congress could therefore impose a reasonable and non-arbitrary condition subsequent upon their continued retention of United States citizenship.


Doesnt apply to Obama, he wasnt born off US soil. You are yet to prove otherwise.

Between these two decisions there is a tension which should call forth further litigation efforts to explore the meaning of the citizenship sentence of the Fourteenth Amendment.

Citizenship of the United States within the meaning of this sentence must be natural and not artificial persons; a corporate body is not a natural citizen of the United States.


Nothing here that denies natural born citizenship to children born on US soil to one foreign born parent and one natural born.

With all of the above in consideration, where does Barak Hussein Obama


It certainly doesnt deny his a natural born citizen in his case.

He is a natural citizen if he was born on a "United States vessel", "territory", or state.


And he has proven sufficient vai Hawaii law, as verified by the Hawaiian state health department over his short form, as further confirmed and declared by congress in December of 2008, as further voted in by congress, in July 2009.

You are yet to prove he was born off US soil.

If he was


Yes full of "if's" eh? Theorizing, ifs, maybe. This explains the foundation of this entire conspiracy theory.

So essentially, as birther you finally refered to the constitution and found there were no conclusive rulings citing Obama's case not to be a natural born.

SG


reply posted on 31-7-2009 @ 09:00 AM by downtown436
reply to post by THX-1138



Yeah, get ready to have your thread closed. ATS has no tolerance for saying Obama is not "Natural born".

Here is my closed thread with video explanation that was closed.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


reply posted on 31-7-2009 @ 09:12 AM by sad_eyed_lady
reply to post by Southern Guardian




Excerpt from:

First Congress Session II Cir 4 1790:



And the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens: Provided, that the right of citizenship shall not descend to the persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States...

found at:

www.wnd.com...



reply posted on 31-7-2009 @ 09:41 AM by mythatsabigprobe
Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady
reply to
post by Southern Guardian


And the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens: Provided, that the right of citizenship shall not descend to the persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States...


You may as well have quoted the law on picking wildflowers in State Parks. Obama wasn't born outside the United States and his father did reside in the United States.

You might have noticed that the loon who put that forward as evidence on WND closed down his own website due to lack of support.


reply posted on 31-7-2009 @ 03:57 PM by chiron613
To the best of my understanding, at the time Obama was born (in Hawaii), any person born on US soil was automatically a natural born US citizen. That law may have been changed after that, but back then it applied.

OK, I tracked it down.
This link gives the qualifications for being a "natural born citizen". The first point states:

(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;

That would be Obama. Nowhere does it require that the parents be citizens.

[edit on 7/31/2009 by chiron613]


reply posted on 31-7-2009 @ 04:10 PM by daddyroo45
reply to post by Southern Guardian



" reference in the constitution or among the statutory (federal) laws where it clearly states that both parents must be citizens in order for children born on soil to be natural born."

SO you are saying that Obama's mother and father were both citizens of the U.S.?
If what you stated is correct,that BOTH parents have to be citizens for a child to be "natural born". Then that would mean that at best Obama is a "native born" citizen,because his father was a non citizen.


reply posted on 1-8-2009 @ 03:29 AM by Southern Guardian
Originally posted by daddyroo45
SO you are saying that Obama's mother and father were both citizens of the U.S.?


No where in the constitution does it say that both parents have to be citizens in order for the child to gain natural born citizenship. The only time the founding fathers mentioned both parents having being US citizens inorder for the child to be natural born was in the case of the child being born off US soil They made no further mention.

Heres links to the constitution:
www.law.cornell.edu...
www.usconstitution.net...
www.constitution.org...

Three different sources to neutral sites that directly reference the constitution. I dont want your phony links to rightwing fringe sites like WND and Israel insider whick references their arguments to websites with personal definitions. I want a direct reference from the constitution where it specifically addresses both parents is being citizens in the case of US natural born citizens.

If you well and truly believe this is true, it shouldnt take you too long to show me this directly from the constitution in the links above.

SG



reply posted on 1-8-2009 @ 06:16 AM by THX-1138
Have a beer with me now....

EXAMPLE: A man is born in Germany and moves to the United States. He follows the law and becomes a naturalized citizen. He is not a natural born citizen and he utilizes an artificial post-birth process to become a naturalized citizen. He is NATURALIZED.

EXAMPLE: A pregnant woman, who is a citizen of another country, crosses the border into the United States and gives birth. Her child is a US citizen by birth -- NATIVE BORN. The child might possibly also be a citizen of the other country if the other country has a law that recognizes the child of one of their citizens and bestows citizenship to that child even if born on foreign soil.

If you have a US Citizen Mother who travels to another country and gives birth to you then you can be a FOREIGN BORN CITIZEN of the United States. You might possibly also be a citizen of that other country. This is the NATIVE BORN situation in another country.

The NATIVE BORN situation allows for dual allegiance and that is precisely why the writers of the US Constitution did not use the phrase BORN CITIZEN or the phrase NATIVE BORN CITIZEN when demanding the characteristics of the President. They insisted that the President be a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN.

Let me spell this out for you illogicals in the interwebs.

IT IS POSSIBLE, in a manner similar to the way in which a MOTHER'S country will confer citizenship to her child newly born on foreign soil, that a country could exist that would confer citizenship to a FATHER'S child even if born in a foreign country.

AND BECAUSE OF THIS, it was deemed necessary to include the phrase NATURAL BORN in the Constitution. This is the only way to have a President with allegiance ONLY to The United States Of America. When the MOTHER is a US Citizen ONLY & the FATHER is a US Citizen ONLY & the child is born on US soil then you have the TRIFECTA! The ultimate pure form NATURAL BORN CITIZEN with allegiance to no other country. This was demanded by the writers of the Constitution!!! I WANT THE CONSTITUTION TO BE ADHERED TO WHEN EMPOWERING A PERSON WITH THE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT!!!!

Obama is not legally holding the office. He is a usurper. The Democrats know this and they are attacking the Constitution. The Republicans know this and they are waiting for the right moment.
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