O' bama is not NATURAL born. It is clear. Only a fortnight now....

reply to post by Southern Guardian


14th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America

14th Amendment

Section I

All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any persons of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

7. Congress intent in including the qualifying phrase "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" was apparently to exclude from the reach of the language children born of diplomatic representatives of foreign state and children born of alien enemies in hostile occupation, both recognized exceptions to the common-law rule of acquired citizenship by birth,

8. as well as children of members of Indian tribes subject to tribal laws.

9. The lower courts have generally held that the citizenship of the parents determines the citizenship of children born on vessels in United States territorial waters or on the high seas.

12. In a subsequent decision, however, the court held that persons who had been statutorily naturalized by being born abroad of at least one American parent could not claim the protection of the first sentence of (1) and that congress could therefore impose a reasonable and non-arbitrary condition subsequent upon their continued retention of United States citizenship.

13. Between these two decisions there is a tension which should call forth further litigation efforts to explore the meaning of the citizenship sentence of the Fourteenth Amendment.

Citizenship of the United States within the meaning of this sentence must be natural and not artificial persons; a corporate body is not a natural citizen of the United States. 14

Naturalization/Naturalisationis the acquisition of citizenship or nationality by somebody who was not a citizen or national of that country when he or she was born. In general, basic requirements for naturalization are that the applicant hold a legal status as a full-time resident for a minimum period of time and that the applicant promise to obey and uphold that country's laws, to which an oath or pledge of allegiance is sometimes added. Some countries also require that a naturalized national must renounce any other citizenship that they currently hold, forbidding dual citizenship, but whether this renunciation actually causes loss of the person's original citizenship will again depend on the laws of the countries involved.

With all of the above in consideration, where does Barak Hussein Obama, aka Barry Soetero, fit?

He is a natural citizen if he was born on a "United States vessel", "territory", or state.

If he was in fact, born in Indonesia, as his grandmother has publicly stated, then he is naturalized.

naturalized U.S. citizens are not eligible to become President of the United

the quote is from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law which is experiencing technical difficulties!!!

Without quoting the entire Constitution, can you clear this up?

Natural-born citizen

Who is a natural-born citizen? Who, in other words, is a citizen at birth, such that that person can be a President someday?

The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." But even this does not get specific enough. As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but it is the law that fills in the gaps.

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

Anyone born inside the United States *
Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

[edit on 31-7-2009 by Hazelnut]

58 percent of GOP not sure/doubt Obama born in US

www.politico.com...

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
58 percent of GOP not sure/doubt Obama born in US

That's a lot more than just a 'fringe' group of people.
The article said 77% of Americans OVERALL think Obama was born here.
That's 33% that aren't sure or don't think so.

Hardly a fringe minority.

HEY OBAMA - just release the original birth certificate!
What are you afraid of?

reply to post by Hazelnut

thanks I was certain I saw that before so I didn't feel a need to reference it.I was only using it to for context in asking if it matters if his mother was single.

Well thankyou for finally address the constitution.

Originally posted by Hazelnut
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

14th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America

14th Amendment

Section I

All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any persons of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Makes no mention of whether both parents have to be citizens.

7. Congress intent in including the qualifying phrase "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" was apparently to exclude from the reach of the language children born of diplomatic representatives of foreign state
and children born of alien enemies in hostile occupation, both recognized exceptions to the common-law rule of acquired citizenship by birth,

Obamas mother was a natural born citizen. Obamas father was a foreign exchange student. Obamas father was not a diplomatic representitive neither was he an illigal alien.

8. as well as children of members of Indian tribes subject to tribal laws.

9. The lower courts have generally held that the citizenship of the parents determines the citizenship of children born on vessels in United States territorial waters or on the high seas.

12. In a subsequent decision, however, the court held that persons who had been statutorily naturalized by being born abroad of at least one American parent could not claim the protection of the first sentence of (1) and that congress could therefore impose a reasonable and non-arbitrary condition subsequent upon their continued retention of United States citizenship.

Doesnt apply to Obama, he wasnt born off US soil. You are yet to prove otherwise.

Between these two decisions there is a tension which should call forth further litigation efforts to explore the meaning of the citizenship sentence of the Fourteenth Amendment.

Citizenship of the United States within the meaning of this sentence must be natural and not artificial persons; a corporate body is not a natural citizen of the United States.

Nothing here that denies natural born citizenship to children born on US soil to one foreign born parent and one natural born.

With all of the above in consideration, where does Barak Hussein Obama

It certainly doesnt deny his a natural born citizen in his case.

He is a natural citizen if he was born on a "United States vessel", "territory", or state.

And he has proven sufficient vai Hawaii law, as verified by the Hawaiian state health department over his short form, as further confirmed and declared by congress in December of 2008, as further voted in by congress, in July 2009.

You are yet to prove he was born off US soil.

If he was

Yes full of "if's" eh? Theorizing, ifs, maybe. This explains the foundation of this entire conspiracy theory.

So essentially, as birther you finally refered to the constitution and found there were no conclusive rulings citing Obama's case not to be a natural born.

SG

reply to post by Southern Guardian


You are hilarious!

Thanks for the reply.

reply to post by THX-1138


Yeah, get ready to have your thread closed. ATS has no tolerance for saying Obama is not "Natural born".

Here is my closed thread with video explanation that was closed.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Southern Guardian



Excerpt from:

First Congress Session II Cir 4 1790:

And the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens: Provided, that the right of citizenship shall not descend to the persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States...

found at:

www.wnd.com...

Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

And the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens: Provided, that the right of citizenship shall not descend to the persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States...

You may as well have quoted the law on picking wildflowers in State Parks. Obama wasn't born outside the United States and his father did reside in the United States.

You might have noticed that the loon who put that forward as evidence on WND closed down his own website due to lack of support.

OK, get over your Republican nonsense...

The economy is recovering already.

reply to post by downtown436


There is no hope ---

To the best of my understanding, at the time Obama was born (in Hawaii), any person born on US soil was automatically a natural born US citizen. That law may have been changed after that, but back then it applied.

OK, I tracked it down. This link gives the qualifications for being a "natural born citizen". The first point states:

(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;

That would be Obama. Nowhere does it require that the parents be citizens.

[edit on 7/31/2009 by chiron613]

reply to post by Southern Guardian


" reference in the constitution or among the statutory (federal) laws where it clearly states that both parents must be citizens in order for children born on soil to be natural born."

SO you are saying that Obama's mother and father were both citizens of the U.S.?
If what you stated is correct,that BOTH parents have to be citizens for a child to be "natural born". Then that would mean that at best Obama is a "native born" citizen,because his father was a non citizen.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Lie.

Nowhere in the constitution does it state that both parents must be US citizens, infact the constitution only mentions "natural born citizenship" once when it defines eligibility for the presidency. It doesnt directly define natural born citizenship

Do you always have a knee-jerk reaction and spew nonsense or are you purposefully being disingenuous? Which is it because I never said the Constitution directly defined natural born citizen as having to need both parents to be U.S. citizens. This is determined by other historical documents, Congressional mandates and court rulings. Like I said, it's not 100% proven as the other possibility is that instead of both parents, only one parent may be necessary if it's the father who is a U.S. citizen.

Its obvious you are reading only what you want to see in a attempt to make your lame point.

Originally posted by daddyroo45
SO you are saying that Obama's mother and father were both citizens of the U.S.?

No where in the constitution does it say that both parents have to be citizens in order for the child to gain natural born citizenship. The only time the founding fathers mentioned both parents having being US citizens inorder for the child to be natural born was in the case of the child being born off US soil They made no further mention.

Heres links to the constitution:
www.law.cornell.edu...
www.usconstitution.net...
www.constitution.org...

Three different sources to neutral sites that directly reference the constitution. I dont want your phony links to rightwing fringe sites like WND and Israel insider whick references their arguments to websites with personal definitions. I want a direct reference from the constitution where it specifically addresses both parents is being citizens in the case of US natural born citizens.

If you well and truly believe this is true, it shouldnt take you too long to show me this directly from the constitution in the links above.

SG

Have a beer with me now....

EXAMPLE: A man is born in Germany and moves to the United States. He follows the law and becomes a naturalized citizen. He is not a natural born citizen and he utilizes an artificial post-birth process to become a naturalized citizen. He is NATURALIZED.

EXAMPLE: A pregnant woman, who is a citizen of another country, crosses the border into the United States and gives birth. Her child is a US citizen by birth -- NATIVE BORN. The child might possibly also be a citizen of the other country if the other country has a law that recognizes the child of one of their citizens and bestows citizenship to that child even if born on foreign soil.

If you have a US Citizen Mother who travels to another country and gives birth to you then you can be a FOREIGN BORN CITIZEN of the United States. You might possibly also be a citizen of that other country. This is the NATIVE BORN situation in another country.

The NATIVE BORN situation allows for dual allegiance and that is precisely why the writers of the US Constitution did not use the phrase BORN CITIZEN or the phrase NATIVE BORN CITIZEN when demanding the characteristics of the President. They insisted that the President be a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN.

Let me spell this out for you illogicals in the interwebs.

IT IS POSSIBLE, in a manner similar to the way in which a MOTHER'S country will confer citizenship to her child newly born on foreign soil, that a country could exist that would confer citizenship to a FATHER'S child even if born in a foreign country.

AND BECAUSE OF THIS, it was deemed necessary to include the phrase NATURAL BORN in the Constitution. This is the only way to have a President with allegiance ONLY to The United States Of America. When the MOTHER is a US Citizen ONLY & the FATHER is a US Citizen ONLY & the child is born on US soil then you have the TRIFECTA! The ultimate pure form NATURAL BORN CITIZEN with allegiance to no other country. This was demanded by the writers of the Constitution!!! I WANT THE CONSTITUTION TO BE ADHERED TO WHEN EMPOWERING A PERSON WITH THE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT!!!!

Obama is not legally holding the office. He is a usurper. The Democrats know this and they are attacking the Constitution. The Republicans know this and they are waiting for the right moment.

NATURAL BORN don't mean you naturally came through the narrow gate!

It means you were born to two naturals.

Look up ''natural''. It means ''begotten''. A natural US mother -- a daughter of the United States, and a natural US father -- a son of the United States, create a NATURAL BORN child birthed on United States soil. A test tube baby could be a natural born child.

Originally posted by THX-1138
EXAMPLE: A pregnant woman, who is a citizen of another country, crosses the border into the United States and gives birth. Her child is a US citizen by birth -- NATIVE BORN. The child might possibly also be a citizen of the other country if the other country has a law that recognizes the child of one of their citizens and bestows citizenship to that child even if born on foreign soil.

Obama was born on US soil to a US citizen. Birthers are yet to provide solid proof he was born off US soil to make this case.

Obama is not legally holding the office. He is a usurper. The Democrats know this and they are attacking the Constitution.

Attacking the constitution? the fringers continously ignore the constitution when they argue. I'll ask you like Iv asked every other birther here. where in the constitution does it specifically say both parents need to be US citizens in order for children born on soil to become natural borns.

Where? I want a reference directly from the constitution. If "we are attacking the constitution for believing he is eligible" prove to us directly from the constitution.

I already provided 3 links to the constitution above. It shouldnt take you too long... Mr "constitutionalist".

Originally posted by THX-1138
Look up ''natural''. It means ''begotten''. A natural US mother -- a daughter of the United States, and a natural US father -- a son of the United States, create a NATURAL BORN child birthed on United States soil. A test tube baby could be a natural born child.

Where in the constitution does it say this? Reference us please.

Southern Guardian, get over it. You are babbling about stuff that the rest of us have moved well beyond. We are talking about being a natural born citizen. We are not talking about where he was born. That birth certificate, though it is fake, is a red herring. It is a distraction.

You ask, ''where in the constitution does it specifically say both parents need to be US citizens in order for children born on soil to become natural borns. '' and the answer is in the part that says NATURAL BORN. Don't you get it? I don't know how you can be hung up on this. The Constitution is not a dictionary. It is a set of rules. The people that wrote the Constitution used English words to convey ideas to people that read English. I don't know how you can miss it.