"Organic" food is a lie, leading to consumption of toxic chemicals

I felt so disturbed at the blind following of the word "Organic" that I felt compelled to post a thread. Many on here attribute this word to natural and pure health when in fact they are being misled, lied to and even worse damaging their bodies. Why do I have a problem with "Organic"? In most cases it is not SPRAY free food as many think it is. Organic is in some cases literally soaked in chemicals that are proven highly toxic. Copper sulphate and pyrethrum to name a couple. In some cases so much of these "natural" pesticides are used to the extreme to try to keep the produce free of pests that is is bordering on suicide to even consume it. Not only this MANY organic certifications allow doses of regular pesticides in some situations. Organics is a multi-billion dollar machine and you "believers" (typically nice, well intentioned people) are sheep being led to the slaughter. Here are a few articles that may peak your interest:

In addition to the
residues of synthetic pesticides, organic fruits and vegetables may also
have residues of toxic organic pesticides.
Organic pesticides? Yes. The biggest myth of all about the term organic is
that it means pesticide-free. Far from it. Organic farmers are allowed to
use numerous natural poisons as pesticides. These include chemicals like
pyrethrum, a mixture of nerve toxins squeezed from African chrysanthemums.
In 1999, toxicologists with the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) deemed
pyrethrum a "likely human carcinogen" after finally subjecting pyrethrum to
the same rat force-feeding tests that synthetic pesticides are required to
pass. The organic insecticide rotenone, a tropical root extract, is a
neurotoxin that causes symptoms similar to Parkinson's disease when
administered to rats. Rotenone is also one of the most toxic fish poisons
ever found. Copper sulphate, an organic fungicide, is broadly toxic to
living things and can become a permanent soil contaminant. European
regulators recently banned copper-based fungicides because of environmental
concerns. This has caused Europe's organic farmers to worry because they say
they don't have a natural alternative to pesticide-other than letting the
fungi destroy their crops, which isn't a good one.
The big secret of organic foods is that nobody tests for residues of the
pesticides that organic farmers are allowed to use-because the government
has exempted them (in some cases because of decades of apparent safe use and
in others because of apparent low toxicity). Such is the case with
pyrethrum-the one the EPA now thinks is likely to cause cancer.

Another article

www.dailymail.co.uk...

I'm short on time but this only scratches the surface. Please, do the research there is plenty out there which uncover the farce that is organic. Organic has a religious following so this is likely to fall on deaf ears.

That's the problem of 'organic' food.

What is labeled as 'organic' may not be.

Organic is growing the same way our forefathers and mothers did 100 or 200 years ago, not the 'organic' of today with some exceptions- advanced compost teas for example.

Organic is growing it yourself or off a grower you can trust, not buying it from the supermarket.

I believe many problems described in your post can be solved through proper compost brewing/watering inclusion instead of toxic concoctions and predatory insects or Neem oil instead of pyrethrum.

My opinion is that chemical based monoagriculture is worse than any alternative and should be avoided. I think it's best if our society began growing their own food, because food is power.

reply to post by contemplator


And yet option A is clearly more chemical-saturated.

Grow your own. It's the best method.

The problem with the taking the EPAs word for it is that they work for Monsanto.

notice the word "likely" as in "its possible but we don't know for sure" rather than "it will cause cancer"

It comes down to who you trust more, Monsanto or the organic farmers.

I'd wager the very same things could be said about the conventional pesticides used on non-organic crops. - probably worse.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by contemplator

 

And yet option A is clearly more chemical-saturated.

Grow your own. It's the best method.

I don't know, it seems man-made pesticides break down rather quickly in most cases. Copper Sulphates in organic really scares the crap out me.. fluoride has nothing on this stuff!

Originally posted by mnemeth1
The problem with the taking the EPAs word for it

It doesn't take the EPA to know copper sulphate is not something you want to ingest..

reply to post by contemplator


I just posted in the other thread in full

Copper sulfate is being banned in the Eu is used in at most 1/3 of crops labeled Organic, less in the USA.

A major difference between the Copper Sulfate and the chemical pesticides is skin permeability and root uptake... some crops like Corn the copper sulfate never reaches the plant, this is the case with about 80% of crops it never uptakes beyond the root and many plants like corn a shielded by leaves, while the chemical varieties permeate even very thick skinned fruits and vegetables sometimes.

It's also Water soluble, you can wash your food and be fine and you should never not wash anything in terms of fruit and veggies for reasons of germs alone...

Chemicals however have an extremely high ability of passing from root OR skin directly into the produce itself... the plants have no natural ability to filter out these substances from their organism for lack of a better word while a natural element gets blocked from high accumulation at the root structure

There is concern about soil accumulation and a few types of produce, Tomatoes, Grapes and Potatoes have a thin enough skin to permeate slightly, a good peel will free you from the problem... most chemical pesticides get taken right up from the soil directly into the produce itself...

and again... it's being banned anyway

a far as liver disease workers in vineyards who handled it directly took about 15 years to develop liver disease on average

in amounts in your produced given the way plants absorb it if you simply wash and peel your food... your never going to have an issue in your lifetime

it wont be good long term... so they are putting it out of use... no one needs soil with a high content or copper or water...there are serous concerns...

But your not in danger from Organic foods and it's being pahased out anyway

You have a 100% guarantee of absorbing pesticides from non organic... that's 33% vs 100% and.... you can always just find out if your produce that says it's Organic really is and not buy those brands... you can't get away from pesticides in non organic food at all

Your approaching the subject as IF MOST Organic brands use it on crops and the reality is by the numbers MOST DO NOT

Out of the less than a third that currently do...

a High percentage of them...are crops like Corn where you will absorb 0 Copper given the nature of the plant, so the reality is it's allot less than a third you need to be concerned about

An even better thing is...

The only types of food that might be affected with a higher Content particularly tomatoes... are easy to grow your self even in a city

and again... it took 15 years from handling the stuff to affect workers... the use of copper sulfate will be done entirely in 1.3 that time... and most organic produce is fine...

Your giving people the wrong advice,

chemical pesticides mostly pass the root and end up right in the heart of your food and it's in all your food...

reply to post by mopusvindictus


You say copper is bad but not used much and it's being done away with, yet the consumption of it by organic farmers is hitting record highs. So, your chat does not ease my mind whatsoever. You don't mention other "natural" pesticides being used by organic farmers. And..., wow, amazing how man made chemicals absorb into the food but natural ones (being also chemicals) magically avoid absorbtion. I would like to see some proof of this that pyrethrum and other substances have no uptake into the foods. Are you also a homoeopath by any cyhance since you believe in chemical voodoo? Not to mention high yields of organics have been found with synthetic pesticide residue higher than that of regular produce. Organic food is not even close to a silver bullet regarding good health. It should be used with extreme caution. I accept the reality that all food is tainted organic or not, all we can do is weave through the mine field and hope to make it through. I will not pay double for snake oil chemically soaked foods labelled as "natural". I would rather use that money to buy good food and a gym membership, RO water system etc.

I wonder how the crop growers of 100-200-1000-2000 years ago managed to grow without pesticides and chemicals?

I understand they would have lost a fair amount of crops but I'm sure they had natural remedies like using insects to feed off other insects, cats to chase off the birds and so on.

I'd rather farm eau naturale than use chemicals if I had a farm, and worry about losing a bit of crop than poisoning people.

But this is the modern world where money is more important than lives.

Originally posted by DataWraith
I wonder how the crop growers of 100-200-1000-2000 years ago managed to grow without pesticides and chemicals?

I understand they would have lost a fair amount of crops but I'm sure they had natural remedies like using insects to feed off other insects, cats to chase off the birds and so on.

I'd rather farm eau naturale than use chemicals if I had a farm, and worry about losing a bit of crop than poisoning people.

But this is the modern world where money is more important than lives.

Not only do they need more yield but it must 'look pretty', I have seen what fruit and vegetables looked like many many years ago and no one would buy it now it would be chucked in the trash. It must all be like nice pretty pieces of plastic.

reply to post by contemplator


Pyrethrum alone is extremely safe, breaking down in around 2.5 months and leaving no remains in the environment nor permanent contamination of the soil...

There are cases of people being allergic but they are rare and almost universally limited to Pyrethrins or Pyrethrum with PB added to it... both being chemical creations and the equivalent of comparing chewing a coca leaf to smoking crack

I'd add neither of those should be in anything called "organic"

You state that Copper Sulfate is in it's highest use... well of course Organic produce is at an all time high in consumption, so of course it is in highest use...

it still doesn't change the fact that 2/3rds of organic produce DON'T USE IT

Compare Pyrethrum to DDT with a break down of 2.5 months to 15 years on a half life!!!! There is DDT at the north Pole sitting on the ice...


I mean... honestly your comparing an extremely small number of base natural agents that... Half of Organic growers Never use any of .... copper? Chrysanthemum leaves? (Pyrethrum) because the chemical companies put out garbage research to keep in business... hyping an allergic woman in NY or... a natural metal that can't even pass through the root of a plant because it occurs in nature and the plant is built to absorb it a certain way....


There's 7-10 things out there Organic farmers use... they all break down, even the copper sulfate will bind to water or organic material and be gone from the soil in a single turn over if done properly

VS this

6500 chemicals and pesticides in use

I mean...

How can you read research paid for by chemical companies and never even take the time to see who funded the product before you believe... a handful of naturally occurring substances (some in use for 100's of year, some simple elements) will be absorbed into your produce more than 6500 man made chemicals these plants have never encountered in nature before nor has the human body?

Can you even imagine there will be more allergic reactions to Chrysanthemum petals lol... than 6500 engineered chemicals over time? Or a slightly higher amount of copper in your food is worse than the list above?


Your spouting stuff funded by dupont lol and feeding it to people...

The article doesn't even make sense initially... Organic food as a choice has nothing to do with nutrition... people maybe say that but it's about getting rid of as many chemicals as possible...

Not a thing on that list of 6500 breaks down or has a use in limited amounts as the copper does in your body or is organic in anyway....

so it's not "PERFECT" lol.... what is...

Traditionally farmed produce can often have 15-25 of the above chemicals on it all of them saturate some with half lives of 50 years some that don't break down in water almost ALL with the ability to work directly into the food chain by complete 100% absorption of the plant and produce... some won't breakdown if you boil it for days...

I Know exactly what's in the HALF of Organic produce that has Anything at all on it... the other half legitimately has nothing in many cases they use beneficial insects or other methods.... some of it's green house grown and 100% pure for real

vs

6500 man made chemicals

you could spend a lifetime... and never be able to research all 65000 chemicals and determine what they are actually doing to you

I know I'm not allergic to Chrysanthemum and I know I how to peel my potato deep to get the Copper off the surface... and that's all there is...

What your telling people is ... hype put out by chemical companies because people are rejecting them and they want the money

I can't even begin to tell you how far off base you actually are...

take the last word if you want

This is ridiculous on every level

For anyone else

6500 man made chemicals never before encountered in nature in use on EVERY thing you eat non organic 100% of your produce in multi layered use that sometimes simply never break down in the environment

vs Chrysanthemum Petals and Copper in mayyyybe 50% of your produce

You all can decide if Du Pont funds the research against Organic produce or not...

The companies that want to keep pumping out concoctions wish you to keep the in business... this is why there is junk in everything including organic foods and your drinking water, the scariest part is... 2/3 of the chemicals on the list... they don't even no what they do to you, there is no data, they just make it out to the market somehow

Pyrethrum by itself breaks down in 12 hrs lol even pyrthrin itself can't handle temps beyond 120 degrees and breaks down in the human body almost instantly... it can't survive cooking... IT CAN'T CHEMICALLY SURVIVE COOKING lol

vs

Malithion (most common pesticide in California)

Malathion itself is of low toxicity; however, absorption or ingestion into the human body readily results in its metabolism to malaoxon, which is substantially more toxic.[8] Chronic exposure to low levels of malathion have been hypothesized to impair memory, but this is disputed. There is currently no reliable information on adverse health effects of chronic exposure to malathion.[9] Acute exposure to extremely high levels of malathion will cause body-wide symptoms whose intensity will be dependent on the severity of exposure. Possible symptoms include skin and eye irritation, cramps, nausea, diarrhea, excessive sweating, seizures and even death. Most symptoms tend to resolve within several weeks. Malathion present in untreated water is converted to malaoxon during the chlorination phase of water treatment, so malathion should not be used in waters that may be used as a source for drinking water, or any upstream waters.

or the most widely used organophosphate

Chlorpyrifos is a neurotoxin and suspected endocrine disruptor, and it has been associated with asthma,[11] reproductive and developmental toxicity, and acute toxicity. For acute effects, the EPA classifies chlorpyrifos as Class II: moderately toxic. Recent research indicates that children exposed to chlorpyrifos while in the womb have an increased risk of delays in mental and motor development at age 3 and an increased occurrence of pervasive developmental disorders such as ADHD.[12] An earlier study demonstrated a correlation between prenatal chlorpyrifos exposure and lower weight and smaller head circumference at birth.[13] Chlorpyrifos is highly toxic to amphibians, and a recent study by the United States Geological Survey found that its main breakdown product in the environment, chlorpyrifosoxon, is even more toxic to these animals.

and

A body burden study conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found n TCPy—a metabolite specific to chlorpyrifos—in the urine of 91% of people tested.[15] An independent analysis of the CDC data claims that Dow has contributed 80% of the chlorpyrifos body burden of people living in the US.[16] A 2008 study found dramatic drops in the urinary levels of chlorpyrifos metabolites when children switched from conventional to organic diets.

and Diazinon

Diazinon is one of a class of pesticides called organophosphates (OPs), chemicals that were originally developed by the German company I.G. Farben as nerve gases during World World II. Even short-term exposure to diazinon and other OPs can damage the brain and nervous system. Symptoms can range from headaches, nausea, dizziness, and seizures to paralysis, multiple chemical sensitivity syndrome, comas, and death in extreme cases. Pesticide industry studies conducted on laboratory animals show that children are more susceptible to diazinon than are adults. After reviewing thousands of scientific studies--most of which were generated by the pesticide industry--the EPA concluded in June 2000 that all common household uses of diazinon are unsafe.

The three most common in use.


What do they break down into?

breakdown

chlorpyrifos, malathion and diazinon -- are 10 - 100 times more toxic to amphibians than their parent compounds, which are already highly toxic to amphibians,

Test results indicated that chloroxon killed all tadpoles and was at least 100 times more toxic than the lowest concentration of the parent compound chlorpyrifos, which resulted in no mortality. Maloxon was nearly 100 times more toxic than malathion, and diazoxon was about 10 times more toxic than diazinon.

What does Pyrethrum break down into?

In air, all six of the pyrethrins and many of the pyrethroids are broken down or degraded rapidly by sunlight or other compounds found in the atmosphere. Often, they last only 1 or 2 days before being degraded. Rain and snow help remove the pyrethroids from air that are not rapidly degraded. Pyrethrins and pyrethroids are not easily taken up by the roots of plants and vegetation

Pyrethrum breaks down into metabolites in the body and basic organic compounds in the soil


Pick your poison... Dow and Duponts 6500 or the Chrysanthemum petals


[edit on 31-7-2009 by mopusvindictus]

for the people interested in this subject, here we go -

the UK legislation regarding organic foods:

www.naturalengland.gov.uk...

(towards the bottom of the page, PDF files).

I will stay on organic , i know it is not perfect but this is still FAR better to the chemical foods they sell in stores.
I do not want Monosodium Glutamate, pesticied, artifficial fats, aspartane etc . I have the right for a choice, and so you ! enjoy what you think it is right for you !

Bonus point for playing the DDT card lol

Half of Organic growers Never use any

Well great! Here's hoping I spin the barrel and get the right half. By the way Pyrethrum is a neurotoxin.

I do not want Monosodium Glutamate, pesticied, artifficial fats, aspartane etc . I have the right for a choice, and so you ! enjoy what you think it is right for you !

Yeah I avoid all that crap too but I don't have to be "organic" to do it. I am not pro-pesticide, I hate the fact I eat it. What I am trying to get across is that not everything is as it seems with the "organic" market and you could potentially do more harm than good ingesting heavy metals and neurotoxic "natural" substances. And I found one study interesting how "organic" eaters had blood work done and found they had similar levels of pesticides in their body as non organic eaters. They were in shock when given the results.

reply to post by contemplator


yeah I added info


it's a neuro toxin that breaks down in the body into metabolites extremely rapidly and you'd have to build up a massive amount of it in relatively short period of time to have any effects unless you had what amounts to an extremely rare allergy

where as the most widely used organophosphates break down into chemicals that are as much as 100 x more toxic and can remain fat soluble for months even years enters the water table and remains in the environment by proxy for decades

link

The affects of these pesticides are PERMANENT

The organophosphate Diisopropylfluorophosphate (DFP) is a well-known inhibitor of cholinesterases. We have recently observed that neonatal exposure to a single subsymptomal dose of DFP induces permanent alterations in muscarinic cholinergic receptors (MAChRs) and in spontaneous behaviour, in the mice as adults.

brain receptors

More alarming, studies in animals now show that even a single, low-level exposure to certain organophosphates, during particular times of early brain development, can cause permanent changes in brain chemistry as well as changes in behavior, like hyperactivity. Chlorpyrifos (the chemical in the insecticide Dursban), for example, decreases the synthesis of DNA in the developing brain, leading to drops in the number of brain cells. If these findings pertain to humans, it may mean that early childhood exposures to chlorpyrifos can lead to lasting effects on learning, attention, and behavior -- just as were seen with another environmental neurotoxin, lead.

link


There's not even a comparison in terms of toxicity

These are the most widely used chemical pesticides on earth and apparently they are as bad as lead...

There's no permanent chemical binding with Pyrethrum, no entering the water table, no environmental buildup, almost impossible to accumulate in the body you'd need to ingest it raw, it doesn't uptake into plants... The human body eliminates it with no permanent actions...

The worse part is... Insects become immune to these chemicals so we have ruined ourselves to something they adapt to... The Pyrethrum has never in history had a single bug adapt to it... it works

And lol... I know your not into "chemicals" lol

It's just infinitely healthier going Organic... yeah, some stuff really isn't 100% organic, sure... but you have every capacity to read the Name of the company call them and check to see if it's really Organic... you want to eliminate organics with anything at all.... it's doable

Your 100% guaranteed to absorb organophosphates from any non organic food... and they alter your body forever

I agree... don't get me wrong, the Term is sometimes bunk...

But there are good companies out there, greenhouse grown, virtually nothing aside from the 6500 chemicals we've managed to dump in the food chain, but still in far less amounts no matter how you look at it

Not bashing

I get and agree with your main point that not everything organic is organic, but your moving to having a degree of control one way and eliminating very serious poisons...

You might as well not even eat a non organic apple you'd do better to have a cigarette to curb your appetite

I have been to this farm:

Nojoqui Farm

They use no chemicals on their produce.

Instead of killing insects, I take the opposite approach. I encourage beneficial insects to permanently live in our fields. I grow flowering plants that provide food and shelter for the beneficials including assassin bugs, ladybugs, lacewings and minute pirate bugs. Now when I see a few aphids or a worm eating the vegetables, I recognize that as food for ladybugs and lacewings. It's the balance of nature for which I strive.

Most of the time it is best to let nature take its own course. Now and then you may find a hole in our lettuce leaves, but you won't find any chemical residues.

I worked for the company that owns the farm. Their top execs are awful people - nothing new there - but they got the farm right.

Originally posted by DataWraith
I wonder how the crop growers of 100-200-1000-2000 years ago managed to grow without pesticides and chemicals?

I understand they would have lost a fair amount of crops but I'm sure they had natural remedies like using insects to feed off other insects, cats to chase off the birds and so on.

I'd rather farm eau naturale than use chemicals if I had a farm, and worry about losing a bit of crop than poisoning people.

But this is the modern world where money is more important than lives.

Hi Data/
You ask ''How did the crop growers of 100-200-1000-2000 years ago managed to grow without pesticides and chemicals''?
Well, that's easy...There WEREN'T any Chem trails over their clean blue skies, polluting everything in site and causing enviromental disorders and the like!
The genetically Engineered food is probably grown with toxic chemicals that BUGS wont go near them.
Well the CHEM-Trails on the G.E produce just adds that 'Extra flavour', in years to come one's taste buds wil become immune!
Organic is always better.
Once Organic SEEDS become obsolete,
then everyone will be in the hands of the Elite!


ICXC NIKA
helen

Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water here.

The issue is not whether or not Organic is "good" or "bad". The question, and the real topic of this thread, is whether or not you can believe the label.

Truly organic produce, won't have been subjected to pesticides etc. at all.

The only way to get (or at least know you're getting) truly organic produce is to grow it yourself, which we should all be doing anyway.