Faster Than Light Messages

I mentioned this in another topic, and just wanted to get another opinion.

First take a look at this image;

Image you have a string that is pulled tight, or maybe even made of solid steel, that is 1 light year long ( ). YOU are on the left end of the string, and someone else is on the right end of the string. If YOU pulled the string to the left, and at the exact same time you turned the flash light on, wouldn't the person on the right end of the string notice the string move before the light reaches him?

In this case, a chain reaction would happen in the atoms of the string which moves faster than light. Right? That would mean Einstein is wrong, and "information" can travel faster than light.

I was also thinking about quantum entanglement. When two particles are made at the same time, they both are "linked" together and no matter how far apart the particles are, they would both move exactly the same, and share the same "information". Wouldn't all of this be easily explained by saying that both objects are actually ONE object?

For example, the string in the image above... If it was a solid material that didn't bend, or flex, or stretch, every time you moved the left end of the string, the right end of the string would move with it. Correct? So if you could make the middle of the string invisible, and only see the ends of the string, it would appear like two separate objects that move at the same exact time (sharing information faster than light), just like quantum entanglement. Right?

Let me know what you think...

[edit on 30-7-2009 by ALLis0NE]

wouldn't light still travel faster? The vibration at such a distance would never reach the end so this isnt a realistic theory but hypothetically i could see how the vibration may be perceived as faster...its difficult for our brains to process how fast traveling at the speed of light really is...

A string one light year long would be Sooooooooo Heavvvvvy...

If made from any physical material, it would be elastic over that distance. It would stretch, and no information would be propagated at FTL speed to the opposite end. Modulate the string acoustically, and even sonic vibrations (much slower than FTL) would be damped out elastically. Send an electrical signal (if conductive) or lightbeam (if optical fiber) and still, no FTL.

Maxwell's equations do seem to allow FTL EM waves, moving from the future to the past. Probably just bad math.

To sum up: impossible, due to elasticity.

Hmm, really gets the mind thinking about such things. Sometimes its better not to ask questions.

Previous posts explain some things well. We cannot even begin to imagine how fast the speed of light really is. Also the elasticity as one said, could interfere with the "tug". But if you want to imagine that the string of iron or whatever cannot be affected, then who knows. Maybe so.

Fun idea though.

reply to post by Chakotay


This test could be scaled down, the effect would just be easier to see if it was 1 light year long.

You could test this with 1 foot long solid piece of wire or string.

The point is, wouldn't ONE solid object that moves as a whole be able to transfer information from one point to the next faster than light can?

Light would have to travel from point A to point B, yet the solid object is already at point A and point B, at the same time. So any movement at point A would be nearly instant movement at point B, right?

That would mean I could send information from point A to point B faster than light could.

I had to comment, because I asked a physics professor about this recently.

According to him, when you tug on a string, the reason the opposite end of the string moves is that the electric field between each atom of the string is communicating with the next atom.

Electric fields propogate at the speed of light, and no faster.

Therefore, you cannot make a material so inelastic as to propogate a message faster than the speed of light.

It makes sense to me.

that makes sense to me as well!

So even the common transition of that data on the string essentially goes at the same speed the flash of light would be going

reply to post by ALLis0NE


Sorry. I wish it could.　Even diamond-carbon thread or neutronium would not be free from elasticity losses. While the objects around us seem solid, they are not. They are assemblages of electromagnetic elements suspended in mostly empty free space, and seem solid enough when relatively small. But they act like wet spaghetti when scaled up.

See aeroelasticity for a discussion.

Keep thinking and communicating, though. You have an original and brilliant mind.

hmm interesting, but even the most brittle/tough materials show elasticity even if its so tiny it cannot be registered on a stress/strain graph....over those distances though, which are just unfathomanable to the human mind, it would build up, id imagine diamond would act like a 10m piece of string.

Interesting idea but it will still obey the laws of physics.

You see there is a cool thing called RELATIVITY that will prevent what you claim. Also you must frame this conundrum properly to see what will happen if you could create a string of steel 1 light year long.

What you are discussing is speed from point A to Point B.

Imagine two observers at the opposite ends, one on Earth (point A) and another at the one light-year mark (point B).

Imagine the the observer on Earth pushes the string at say 10km/hour while turning on a flash light.

Here is what will happen:

Observer A will notice the light leave at 300,000km/second and will see the string move at 10km/hour AS OBSERVED FROM POINT A.

Observer B will see the light travelling towards him at 300,000km/s (assuming he/she can tell the specific light coming from Earth lol) and the string move at 10km/h AS OBSERVED FROM POINT B.

This is due to relativity and the principle of causality (an action (on the string) will produce a effect (it moving 10km/h, as it is PHYSICALLY CONNECTED FROM A TO B))

Therefore the string does not move faster than light.

If you are referring to entaglement (the coupling of atoms so that even if they are a universe apart will still be able to communicate instantly), that is a totally different phenomenon that has nothing to do with physical attachment.

Hope this helps!

reply to post by ALLis0NE


Quantum entanglement proves information travels faster than the speed of light and also that we are all made of the same universal something. The universe is a hologram.

[edit on 1-8-2009 by Holographic]