ABUSE CRISIS: International Red Cross: Up to 90% of Iraq Detainees are Mistakes!

Shedding new light on the abuse scandal rocking Washington and the World, a report from the International Committee of the Red Cross indicates abuse of Iraqi prisoners by American soldiers was not "individual acts" but widespread. The ICRC confirmed the authenticity of a 24-page document published by the Wall Street Journal saying the abuses were primarily during the interrogation stage. However, if nearly nine out of ten arrests were mistakes, a lot of innocent Iraqi's learned about sadism the hard way. apnews.myway.com "Arresting authorities entered houses usually after dark, breaking down doors, waking up residents roughly, yelling orders, forcing family members into one room under military guard while searching the rest of the house and further breaking doors, cabinets and other property," the report said. "Sometimes they arrested all adult males present in a house, including elderly, handicapped or sick people," it said. "Treatment often included pushing people around, insulting, taking aim with rifles, punching and kicking and striking with rifles." In related news.... Lawyers say charged soldier is scapegoat An attorney for an Army reservist shown in photographs smiling and gesturing at naked Iraqi prisoners said Monday that she is taking the fall for military shortcomings that include a lack of troops. Denver lawyers defend Lynndie England "They have to have someone to blame, and basically she is at the bottom of the pecking order, and so she gets the blame," Zapor told The Denver Post. A scandal "perfect storm" is brewing not seen since the Iran Contra scandal. We have widely documented stories of rampant abuse on detainees in Iraq, combined with lawyers defending the abusive soldiers who are focused on revealing how the military leadership is part of the problem. The damage of this scandal could travel wide, and deep. What do our members think? [Edited on 10-5-2004 by SkepticOverlord]

I would assume that some of the people in detention are there by mistake, being caught up in a sweep or someother such police action. But, again, if these allegations are true, that 90% are in fact, mistakenly detained then we have yet another scandal to work out. Heads will shortly roll at the pentagon, I think.

[Edited on 10-5-2004 by observer]

In reference to the "Related News" pieces...

Someone who puts another human being on a leash and giggles about it, and does the sorts of things this person does is a psychopath and does not deserve to wear a uniform. Yes, we seem to be finding a lot of inadequacies a lot higher up then her. Yes, those things need to be worked on. We need to find out what the hell is going on there. But we also need to view the pictures at face value. A decent person does not do what she did, let alone do it and proudly pose for smiling pictures while doing it. She is unfit for duty, and rather than whine about blame shifting her lawyers should concentrate on what SHE did.

Originally posted by Djarums A decent person does not do what she did, let alone do it and proudly pose for smiling pictures while doing it. She is unfit for duty

I agree with you completely. No excuse of "lack of training" will cut the mustard in this case. Civilized people simply do not do these things. On the other hand... Professional soldiers seek to aspire to ideals of honor, dignity, and respect. At what point did our nation's hierarchy of professional soldiers and their commanders so utterly break down that the volume of abuse being discussed could have happened? This is our question.

That definitely is the big question. Growing up when I was going into college and a lot of people I knew were joining the military you could see a common thing in them when they came home. They had been instilled with a certain sense of honor. The honor that I saw in friends and acquaintences of mine was an honor that sure as hell wouldn't allow them to do acts like those depicted. I wish I knew what went wrong.

"Arresting authorities entered houses usually after dark, breaking down doors, waking up residents roughly, yelling orders, forcing family members into one room under military guard while searching the rest of the house and further breaking doors, cabinets and other property," the report said.

That sound like everyday thing here in USA, they do that here all the time, but instead of the military is mostly the police follow by the FBI. And lets dont forget the beatings on the streets once in a while.

and have several other ATS'ers, these abuses were part of standard "interrogation" procedure. I suspect the CIA, or whomever is responsible for carrying out these operations, realizes several things:

1. Our Iraqi intelligence is very poor. Therefore, to increase effectiveness, we have to probabilistically interrogate the Irai population. This means randomly kidnapping portions of the population over time to ensure a wide enough "spread." This is why 93% of the detainees were "mistakes."

2. Interrogation techniques are aimed at extracting legit information as fast as possible. The best way to do this is to shame the men. This includes (mass) rape, creating an environment of extreme fear, humiliation by women and so forth.

It is simpler to assume that Ms. England was following standard procedure than it is to assume a bunch of rouge soldiers were having fun. Brutal interrogation techniques are not new. Systemized brutality as a tool is certainly not new.

So what this means is that while these soldiers should be court-martialed, we should find the elements in the CIA that implemented this program and fire them. They have failed in all measures:

1. That the photos were released proves that their security was a crock of #.

2. Their inept contingency planning shows us they don't know what the hell they're doing.

3. The above two points prove that they simply aren't doing their job. Period.

The Red Cross says that these "procedures" are standard: story.news.yahoo.com...

You want someone to fall? Look to the inept CIA/Milatary interrogation planners. These are the idiots shaming the U.S.A.


[Edited on 10-5-2004 by ktprktpr]

I would like to know the answers to these questions:

Who took the photos and why?
Why did the abusers agree to be photographed?
What was the relationship of the whistleblower to the abusers?
What has now happened to the whistleblower?
By what exact route did the photos get exposed?
Were the photos officially sent to military or civilian authorities before being sent to the media?
Which media first published this issue and why?

I would like to know if there is published information which answers the above questions, and if the info that has been published comes from a reliable or suspect source. In other words, is this scandal as straightforward as it appears?

If you don't have any facts to answer these questions, then I'd be very interested in hearing your creative fantasies- just please label it as fantasy.... or if fact then please give source.