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Soldier Takes War Protest to the PM

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posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 09:51 AM
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Soldier Takes War Protest to the PM


BBC NEWS

A serving soldier who is refusing to return to Afghanistan has delivered a letter to the Prime Minister urging him to "bring our soldiers home".

The soldier, who lives in York, faces a preliminary court martial on Monday for refusing to go back to Afghanistan.

The soldier went on: "I don't believe our cause is just. I think it's adversely affecting the Afghan people as well as the British Army and their families.

(visit the link for the full news article)



[edit on 30-7-2009 by Laurauk]




posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 09:51 AM
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Finally a soldier with moralles. I do wonder if the smear machine of the Government will now gointo operation totry and smear this soildeirs name and his service reputation.

I for one thinkhe is right, as a serving Soldier to question the Governements Actions with regards to Afghanistan.

How do other members feel with regars to this. Is he a traitor? Does he have the right to voice his concerns over the Governments Objectives inAfghanistan, with the increase of injuries and deaths our service men and women are facing out there?

BBC NEWS
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 30-7-2009 by Laurauk]



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 09:57 AM
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He took a job, then refused a duty...

Sounds like a scumbag to me, who was just in it for the free cake and kool-aid.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 01:09 PM
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This is great
He is a hero!

those that throws insults to these guys have the exact kind of thinking that war-profiteers want them to have

a nation of blind people!


Originally posted by ninecrimes
He took a job, then refused a duty...

Sounds like a scumbag to me


He's one of the few that ISN'T a scumbag

lol at refused a duty, what a slave mentality
see some people aren't robots and have a mind of their own



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
This is great
He is a hero!

those that throws insults to these guys have the exact kind of thinking that war-profiteers want them to have

a nation of blind people!


Originally posted by ninecrimes
He took a job, then refused a duty...

Sounds like a scumbag to me


He's one of the few that ISN'T a scumbag

lol at refused a duty, what a slave mentality
see some people aren't robots and have a mind of their own


He signed a contract, and is now renegging on the duties he knew he would have to fulfill. To me, he looks like a man who was hoping he'd be able to get all the perks of being a soldier, without actually having to fight any battles.

Whether or not we should be in Afghanistan (or if GB should be) is not the decision of this soldier. He signed up, knew what he was signing up for, and then broke his contract.

Yup, sounds like a real great guy... I'm glad that not all military men & women are like this, otherwise we'd have no army!



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 01:20 PM
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reply to post by ninecrimes
 


He had already been to afghanistan, done his fighting, probably donemore than half of the members in here.

There is alot more than him, who have the same opinion, with regards to afghanistan, at least that soldier has the balls to stand up to those who would rather add his name to the stadistics of those service men or women killed, or injured out there.

Those who sent them out there in the first place, those are the scumbags.

BBC

Link Fixed:



[edit on 30-7-2009 by Laurauk]

[edit on 30-7-2009 by Laurauk]



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by Laurauk
 


Lauruk, I can't get your BBC link to work unfortunately, could you possibly re-try ?

Cheers



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by ninecrimes
Whether or not we should be in Afghanistan (or if GB should be) is not the decision of this soldier. He signed up, knew what he was signing up for, and then broke his contract.

It's not YOUR decision on whether a human being should have a conscious or not.

It's very much the decision of this soldier on whether he should continue fighting an illegal war that is bankrupting this country or not.


Originally posted by ninecrimes
Yup, sounds like a real great guy... I'm glad that not all military men & women are like this, otherwise we'd have no army!


If more men were like this there would be no war
This is why the Vietnam War ended
a large reason of Vietnam war ending was because of GIs that refused to continue to fight an illegal war.

See look at this guy
ninecrimes, he is one of many
not to single you out but just to make an example.

Whenever there's rape, or torture or this or that every one that has been in the military says "It's a soldiers job to refuse to take bad orders"

But when a soldier makes a big decision like refusing to continue to fight an illegal or immoral war then he's a scumbag?

What kind of logic is that?
Defend this ATSers with military experience!

Why should a soldier with a conscious have to continue fighting an immoral war where his camp is part of the bad guys that is both creating more war and bankrupting his country?

Why should he be forced to make rich people richer as the sake of innocent lives, both abroad and in his home-soon to be tent-city-country?



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by Laurauk
reply to post by ninecrimes
 


He had already been to afghanistan, done his fighting, probably donemore than half of the members in here.

There is alot more than him, who have the same opinion, with regards to afghanistan, at least that soldier has the balls to stand up to those who would rather add his name to the stadistics of those service men or women killed, or injured out there.

Those who sent them out there in the first place, those are the scumbags.

[edit on 30-7-2009 by Laurauk]


I'm not saying I agree with the war, I am saying I disagree with this man's contempt for his own country.

Again, HE SIGNED UP, he was not forced to (I assume, please correct me if I'm wrong) join the military.

Furthermore, if he had problems with a specific assignment (let's say, hypothetically, he was ordered to murder a civilian) he could refuse them. But to refuse to ship out to a location where your country is fighting a war, after you signed up to that country's military, is just plain insubordinate and is a breach of contract.

I hope he is punished, imprisoned and made an example. It is not acceptable to have the very men & women sworn to protect us defying the orders of their superiors, without just cause.

So, was he ordered to kill innocents? Was he ordered to hurt someone? Or was he just ordered to fulfill the duties listed in the contract that he signed under his own free will?

I at least hope that this pathetic excuse for a man offers to return any monies received during his time as a "soldier" (he isn't a soldier, he is a coward).



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by ninecrimes
Whether or not we should be in Afghanistan (or if GB should be) is not the decision of this soldier. He signed up, knew what he was signing up for, and then broke his contract.

It's not YOUR decision on whether a human being should have a conscious or not.

It's very much the decision of this soldier on whether he should continue fighting an illegal war that is bankrupting this country or not.


Originally posted by ninecrimes
Yup, sounds like a real great guy... I'm glad that not all military men & women are like this, otherwise we'd have no army!


If more men were like this there would be no war
This is why the Vietnam War ended
a large reason of Vietnam war ending was because of GIs that refused to continue to fight an illegal war.

See look at this guy
ninecrimes, he is one of many
not to single you out but just to make an example.

Whenever there's rape, or torture or this or that every one that has been in the military says "It's a soldiers job to refuse to take bad orders"

But when a soldier makes a big decision like refusing to continue to fight an illegal or immoral war then he's a scumbag?

What kind of logic is that?
Defend this ATSers with military experience!

Why should a soldier with a conscious have to continue fighting an immoral war where his camp is part of the bad guys that is both creating more war and bankrupting his country?

Why should he be forced to make rich people richer as the sake of innocent lives, both abroad and in his home-soon to be tent-city-country?


Are you serious?

Please cite a valid source that claims this man refused an order to rape/murder someone.

And as for "why should he fight"? HE SIGNED UP TO!

[edit on 30-7-2009 by ninecrimes]



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by ninecrimes
I'm not saying I agree with the war, I am saying I disagree with this man's contempt for his own country.

If you want this soldier abroad you agree with the war
either you do or you don't
let me put it simpler
Either you Fully agree or you Fully don't agree



Originally posted by ninecrimes
I hope he is punished, imprisoned and made an example. It is not acceptable to have the very men & women sworn to protect us defying the orders of their superiors, without just cause.

It's because he's sworn to protect his country that he's doing this.
foreign occupation makes america more in danger, not less


Originally posted by ninecrimes
I at least hope that this pathetic excuse for a man offers to return any monies received during his time as a "soldier" (he isn't a soldier, he is a coward).

He's facing a court marshall
he's hardly a coward
and he has to deal with slave thinking like yours

He's very much a soldier!
He's trying to defend his country IN HIS COUNTRY!



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

It's because he's sworn to protect his country that he's doing this.
foreign occupation makes america more in danger, not less


Well, he's from Britain.

But you raise a good point.

These are odd times we live in, where a citizen can do more to defend their country by refusing to join the military as opposed to fighting in the military.

Yes, foreign occupations (such as Afghanistan) make our nations weaker. It has hurt the US economy, and I'm sure it is hurting the British economy. By standing up and refusing orders this particular soldier is doing more to defend his countrymen then any of the soldiers fighting overseas are.

If everyone in the military laid down their arms, the military industrial complex would fall apart.

My signature says it all.



(Also, the link doesn't appear to work, so here is the story from another source.)



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by ninecrimes
I'm not saying I agree with the war, I am saying I disagree with this man's contempt for his own country.

If you want this soldier abroad you agree with the war
either you do or you don't
let me put it simpler
Either you Fully agree or you Fully don't agree



Originally posted by ninecrimes
I hope he is punished, imprisoned and made an example. It is not acceptable to have the very men & women sworn to protect us defying the orders of their superiors, without just cause.

It's because he's sworn to protect his country that he's doing this.
foreign occupation makes america more in danger, not less


Originally posted by ninecrimes
I at least hope that this pathetic excuse for a man offers to return any monies received during his time as a "soldier" (he isn't a soldier, he is a coward).

He's facing a court marshall
he's hardly a coward
and he has to deal with slave thinking like yours

He's very much a soldier!
He's trying to defend his country IN HIS COUNTRY!


Your thinking is so skewed...

You do not have the right to tell anyone how to think- by telling me what I need to think, you are only discrediting yourself as a complete psycho.

This discussion is over. You've put it plainly: you think people should be able to join the Army, consume all the benefits, until they are asked to fight, at which point it is OK for them to say no.

If he didn't want to fight, why did he sign up?

And again, I do not support the war. But thanks for trying to tell me that I do.

I do, however, support my country. If I signed up to fight, fight is what I would do (though because I do not agree with the war, I will not sign up to fight).



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by drwizardphd

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

It's because he's sworn to protect his country that he's doing this.
foreign occupation makes america more in danger, not less


Well, he's from Britain.

But you raise a good point.

These are odd times we live in, where a citizen can do more to defend their country by refusing to join the military as opposed to fighting in the military.

Yes, foreign occupations (such as Afghanistan) make our nations weaker. It has hurt the US economy, and I'm sure it is hurting the British economy. By standing up and refusing orders this particular soldier is doing more to defend his countrymen then any of the soldiers fighting overseas are.

If everyone in the military laid down their arms, the military industrial complex would fall apart.

My signature says it all.



(Also, the link doesn't appear to work, so here is the story from another source.)


Why does everyone ignore the difference between NOT SIGNING UP, and DEFYING ORDERS AFTER SIGNING UP?

They are two VERY different actions.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 02:00 PM
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If I signed up for a job that told me I would be helping out my community but instead I was bankrupting them, making rich people richer and oppressing other communities in the process i'm signing out!

These wars were based on lies.

Pre-emptive war used to mean an act of war!

Blind patriotism will get you knowhere except living under a tent, along with your neighbours and family.

See i'm very pro-choice, I don't mind you thinking this way if it only affected you and your income and health.

But that's not the case, it's harming your own countrymen and foreign nations that mostly only want sovereignty.

There are many traitors amongst the military.
Many that would only fight an enemy abroad not an enemy within.
Some people need to start looking in the mirror.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by ninecrimes

Why does everyone ignore the difference between NOT SIGNING UP, and DEFYING ORDERS AFTER SIGNING UP?

They are two VERY different actions.




"It is my primary concern that the courage and tenacity of my fellow soldiers has become a tool of American foreign policy," he wrote.

"I believe this unethical short-changing of such proud men and women has caused immeasurable suffering not only to families of British service personnel who have been killed and injured, but also to the noble people of Afghanistan."

"I don't believe our cause is just. I think it's adversely affecting the Afghan people as well as the British army and their families. I think it has become part of the problem rather than the solution."



Because if he had never gone there in the first place, he never would have known what it was like. When he signed up for the army, he was probably misled into believing he would be doing a noble deed for his country, protecting, serving and defending his countrymen, and liberating the people of Afghanistan. When he got over there and realized he was just serving corporate interests and destabilizing the region, he realized the error of his ways.

He could likely serve 2 years for this. He is a martyr to the anti-war movement, because he is laying down his arms and saying 'It's not right'. By defying orders he is showing more character and moral integrity than someone who simply follows orders without question.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
If I signed up for a job that told me I would be helping out my community but instead I was bankrupting them, making rich people richer and oppressing other communities in the process i'm signing out!

These wars were based on lies.

Pre-emptive war used to mean an act of war!

Blind patriotism will get you knowhere except living under a tent, along with your neighbours and family.

See i'm very pro-choice, I don't mind you thinking this way if it only affected you and your income and health.

But that's not the case, it's harming your own countrymen and foreign nations that mostly only want sovereignty.

There are many traitors amongst the military.
Many that would only fight an enemy abroad not an enemy within.
Some people need to start looking in the mirror.


Your points are all fine and dandy, except they are only in your head.

He didn't "sign out"... he STAYED IN, collecting all the benefits of being in the Army, until he was called upon for duty, as which point he refused.

Please man, start making more sense. Your points are all so "made up".



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by drwizardphd

Originally posted by ninecrimes

Why does everyone ignore the difference between NOT SIGNING UP, and DEFYING ORDERS AFTER SIGNING UP?

They are two VERY different actions.




"It is my primary concern that the courage and tenacity of my fellow soldiers has become a tool of American foreign policy," he wrote.

"I believe this unethical short-changing of such proud men and women has caused immeasurable suffering not only to families of British service personnel who have been killed and injured, but also to the noble people of Afghanistan."

"I don't believe our cause is just. I think it's adversely affecting the Afghan people as well as the British army and their families. I think it has become part of the problem rather than the solution."



Because if he had never gone there in the first place, he never would have known what it was like. When he signed up for the army, he was probably misled into believing he would be doing a noble deed for his country, protecting, serving and defending his countrymen, and liberating the people of Afghanistan. When he got over there and realized he was just serving corporate interests and destabilizing the region, he realized the error of his ways.

He could likely serve 2 years for this. He is a martyr to the anti-war movement, because he is laying down his arms and saying 'It's not right'. By defying orders he is showing more character and moral integrity than someone who simply follows orders without question.



So, he signed up, did not do proper research, stayed in the organization for years, collecting benefits... then once they wanted him to fulfill his duties (that he SIGNED UP FOR), he quits.

Yup, sounds like a true patriot to me.

He doesn't care about anything except for his own safety.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 02:13 PM
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Did not do proper research?
lol

you do know right that much of the truth only came out AFTER the war began right?



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 02:23 PM
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I have a copy of the Soldiers letter, Wondering if Im allowed to post it here if not, oks remove it mods:




"Dear Mr Brown,

I am writing to you as a serving soldier in the British Army to express my views and concerns on the current conflict in Afghanistan.

It is my primary concern that the courage and tenacity of my fellow soldiers has become a tool of American foreign policy.

I believe this unethical short-changing of such proud men and women has caused immeasurable suffering not only to families of British service personnel who have been killed and injured, but also to the noble people of Afghanistan.

I am not a general nor am I a politician and I cannot claim any mastery of strategy. However, I am a soldier who has served in Afghanistan, which has given me some small insight.

The war in Afghanistan is not reducing the terrorist risk, far from improving Afghan lives it is bringing death and devastation to their country. Britain has no business there.




Oks I have posted half of his letter to th PM anyone wanting to read the whole letter here is the link:

Letter To PM

[edit on 30-7-2009 by Laurauk]



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