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Schumacher back into Ferrari cockpit for Massa

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posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 02:20 AM
Now that's a surprise:

Ferrari confirmed today that seven-time world driving champion Michael Schumacher will come out of retirement to complete the Formula One season of Felipe Massa. The Brazilian suffered head injuries in a high-speed crash during qualifying for Sunday's Grand Prix of Hungary.

"Ferrari intends to entrust Michael Schumacher with Felipe Massa's car for as long as the Brazilian driver is not able to race," the Italian team said in a statement.

"Michael Schumacher has shown his willingness, and in the next few days he will undergo a specific program of preparation at the end of which it will be possible to confirm his participation in the championship starting with the European Grand Prix on Aug. 23."

First, I'd like to say that i find it incredible what has happened to Felipe on last Sunday:

in a F1 so technologically advanced, with such budgets, it is litterally unacceptable that a car looses a steel spring (that weighed just under a kilogram, approx 2 pounds) like some jalopy whatsoever: it is also incredible how Felipe has been relatively lucky: i don't want even just try to imagine what would have happened to him if he was struck just a little below

Anyway, FIA launched safety investigation, i know that mistakes happen, but whomever made this mistake has to pay for it.

FIA Safety Commission
FIA President Max Mosley has asked the FIA Safety Commission to prepare a report on the recent debris-related accidents in the FIA Formula One World Championship and FIA Formula Two Championship.
The FIA Safety Commission, which is made up of medical and technical representatives from all areas of motor sport, will submit its report and recommendations to the World Motor Sport Council.
Preliminary findings suggest the helmet being used by Felipe Massa may have played a significant role in limiting the injuries sustained. The FIA 8860 helmet, which took eight years to develop by the FIA and FIA Institute, provides increased protection in all key impact areas.

I wish to Felipe all the best, and I hope he will be back on a F1 as soon as possible.

Back to Schumacher, i find the news very surprising:
he will start on August 23 driving a car that has Kers, slicks and moreover on a track he never drove in before. I wonder what will come out. Best wishes also to the seven-times world champion.

posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 02:48 AM
Wow! Incredible news!!!

I cannot wait to see Schumacher back in the drivers seat. This is almost a dream come true. Thanks for the news Internos!

It's a shame that the circumstances are what they are though.


posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 08:15 AM

Originally posted by internos
Back to Schumacher, i find the news very surprising:
he will start on August 23 driving a car that has Kers, slicks and moreover on a track he never drove in before. I wonder what will come out. Best wishes also to the seven-times world champion.

This will be very interesting. I don't think the slicks will bother him too much since he raced on them for a number of years in F1.
He is such a precise driver that I wouldn't worry so much about making any glaring mistakes but he might be a little slow

posted on Aug, 1 2009 @ 04:54 AM
I bet Lewis Hamilton is really looking forward to plying his trade against Schumi. I've fallen behind with F1 recently, Hamilton hasn't raced against Michael Schumacher before has he?

posted on Aug, 1 2009 @ 05:18 AM

Originally posted by Sed Non Credo
I bet Lewis Hamilton is really looking forward to plying his trade against Schumi. I've fallen behind with F1 recently, Hamilton hasn't raced against Michael Schumacher before has he?

Hamilton has been lackluster this season (except the last race). At his best, he doesn't hold a candle to Schumacher at his best. No one does. This wont really be an accurate assessment of one persons skill pitted against another.


posted on Aug, 1 2009 @ 09:40 AM

Originally posted by InfaRedMan

Hamilton has been lackluster this season (except the last race). At his best, he doesn't hold a candle to Schumacher at his best. No one does. This wont really be an accurate assessment of one persons skill pitted against another.


I agree in part atleast, Schumacher has been in his day near untouchable. Even whilst driving Ferrari's which on the rare occasion where not holding a speed advantage.

Nothing is certain following an absence out for this amount of time, and alongside that the Teams recent performances must be taken into account. Ferrari, alongside McLaren started the season terribly. McLaren have seen promising results early on from modifications they've been rushing through.

That'd leave me thinking Schumacher and Hamilton will be in close competition. If not, dare I say it. Hamilton coming out on top, due to what on recent form seems be the faster car.

Who knows though? this is Schumacher after all.

[edit on 1-8-2009 by Sed Non Credo]

posted on Aug, 4 2009 @ 05:46 AM
Well, it seems that someone isn't very happy to Schumacher testing the news car:

Formula 1 teams to block Michael Schumacher return
Red Bull, Toro Rosso and Williams are attempting to block Michael Schumacher's bid to return to Formula 1 racing as they aim to prevent Schumacher taking any test runs in Ferrari's 2009 car.

Ferrari have written to the other nine teams and the sport's governing body, the FIA, asking for Schumacher's permission to test the Ferrari F60.
Schumacher, who is standing in after Massa was seriously injured at the Hungarian Grand Prix, began his preparations by driving a 2007 Ferrari at the team's Mugello test track on Friday.
But in-season testing with this season's cars is banned under current regulations.
Five members of the Formula One Teams' Association, McLaren, Renault, Toyota, BMW Sauber and Brawn GP - agreed to overlook the rules and give Schumacher and his Italian team the green light.

However with three teams refusing the test drive, as FIA rules dictate, it now looks unlikely the German will get to try the 2009 car.


Especially Frank Williams will be criticized for this, while i can't be unbiased because my blood color is Rosso Ferrari :shk:

I agree that in this case FIA's rules are clear: also Jaime Alguersuari, before his debut in the Hungarian GP was not allowed to test (this is the why of Red Bull and Toro Rosso vetos).
But in the other hand, it doesn't make much sense to keep on testing a two years old car, especially give all the aforementioned changes to the regulations.
But maybe the regulations themselves give an alternative, especially art. 22:

the article 22.1 / a / i reads
a) Track testing shall be considered any track running time undertaken by a competitor entered in the
Championship with the exception of :
i) promotional or demonstration events carried out using tyres provided specifically for this purpose by the appointed supplier ;

Ferrari could take advantage of it, and perform tests disguised as promotional or demonstration events: the quality of the test wont be 100% accurate, but it would work in order to allow the driver to better know the car and get more confident with it.

posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 03:40 AM
Schumacher is a lousy driver. The fact that he can steer a car that is clearly dominate around a track doesn't make him good. When other cars were competitive, he struggled.

He has admitted to attempted murder (of Jaques Villneuve) and has driven other drivers off the track at speed as well. He has threatened to smash other drivers with spanners and came close to following through with that threat on camera.

He shouldn't be allowed back onto a public road, let alone a F1 race track.

posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 05:56 AM
post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions

posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 07:20 PM

Originally posted by Sed Non Credo
reply to post by rnaa

Good attempt at being controversial but any idiot could see straight through that quite laughable post. Congratulations on receiving my award GIFT...

I guess you take exception to my dislike of the Schu. I suppose my opinion in the last sentence could be taken as controversial but the rest is simple fact.

So do you have opinion of your own about where my assessment is in error or do you just like to throw childish tantrums when your personal heros are questioned?

posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 02:21 AM
reply to post by rnaa

In all honesty. He's a German , which for me personally means it is highly unlikely he is a hero of mine. But I'd have to propose my opinion to you that, any F1 fan who doubts Schumacher's past quality is being ignorant of history due to current personal preferences.

His past quality, to me, and many others cannot be questioned. I'm even certain, but cannot prove, that 99% of professionals would agree with my assessment.

posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 02:38 AM
Crap ... I just got a breaking news tweet that MS has called off his return to Formula 1.

"AP: Michael Schumacher says he is calling off Formula 1 comeback."

If I find a source before I fall asleep I'll post it but I'm sure it will be all over the motorsport news soon.

I for one was really looking forward to watching him drive again.

Edit: Here we go ...

Michael Schumacher has called off his return to Formula One due to a neck injury.

"Yesterday evening, I had to inform Ferrari President Luca di Montezemolo and Team Principal Stefano Domenicali that unfortunately I'm not able to step in for Felipe (Massa)," he said on his website.

"I really tried everything to make that temporary comeback possible, however, much to my regret it didn't work out. Unfortunately we did not manage to get a grip on the pain in the neck which occurred after the private test in Mugello, even if medically or therapeutically we tried everything possible.

"I am disappointed to the core. I am awfully sorry for the guys of Ferrari and for all the fans which crossed their fingers for me. I can only repeat that I tried everything that was within my power. All I can do now is to keep my fingers crossed for the whole team for the coming races."

Oh and Ferrari confirms that Luca Badoer will replace Michael Schumacher during the European Grand Prix.

[edit on 11 Aug 2009 by schrodingers dog]

posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 04:20 AM

Originally posted by Sed Non Credo
reply to post by rnaa

In all honesty. He's a German , which for me personally means it is highly unlikely he is a hero of mine. But I'd have to propose my opinion to you that, any F1 fan who doubts Schumacher's past quality is being ignorant of history due to current personal preferences.

His past quality, to me, and many others cannot be questioned. I'm even certain, but cannot prove, that 99% of professionals would agree with my assessment.

I don't think that a professional driver that purposely, and with forethought, crashes into rival driver at race speed is a 'quality' driver. On the contrary, the act is attempted murder and it exposes him as incompetent and "dangerous at any speed".

And I don't think that a professional driver that is so volatile that he threatens another driver with a monkey wrench (or spanner, depending on your mother tongue) because he slowed down in a rainstorm, is a quality driver. On the contrary it exposes him as likely to make rash mistakes and cause accidents when challenged.

That he had a fast car is beyond dispute. That he could steer well is beyond dispute. That he won a lot of poll positions is testimony to that.

But there is more to being a good driver than having a superior car and steering well.

I am glad he isn't coming back.

posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 10:31 AM
Yes, i got the news this morning, thanks for sharing it:
the neck is the most suffering part of the body during a race, a driver who doesn't make specific training to stranghten it would retire after two laps. Go figure what it means for one who suffered some 135mph bike crash hurting that area.
One has to be at 100% and it is obvious that he's not. I'm glad for Luca Badoer, ho's doing a great work for Ferrari since almost ten years. Good Luck.

Just to add my 2 cents to the discussion about his qualities: if Schumacher had for so long time the best car is especially because of him, since he was the REAL reason of the improvements of the car, according to Maranello's engineers themselves: if a driver has not the ability to find out how performances can be improved, you can give to him the fastest car at the start of the season, but after three races the other teams would already be faster than him, THIS is how F1 works: of those presently racing, the only Fernando Alonso has the same level of skills in improving the car, in the recent past, another one was Häkkinen.
You have to improve the performance at least by an average of half second per lap per race unless you want to have the slowest car after some four/five races (given that you have the fastest at the start).
And this can't be done by engineers alone: they need hints, many ones, from the driver; telemetry is NOTHING without a drive able to help to interpretate the data: the more these hints are accurate, the better they can do it. And in order to be accurate, one needs to know how a F1 car works, not just to be able to turn left and right.
Now, what Happened with Villeneuve was widely criticised by the media, I for first can tell you that it was a very unfair act that a champion, a serious professional, should NEVER do, but seriously, to call this

an attempt of murdering sounds a little out of place, doesn't it? They were on full braking at the moment, at the start of the corner: he knew at least some thousands better ways to kill him, if that was actually his purpose: what he wanted to do was to impeed him from overtaking (and possibly send him out of the race, of course), which is in breach of FIA sporting regulations, he was indeed punished and the story ended there. IF it was considered an attempt of killing him, the guy wouldn't have have driven some F1 car anymore, you can bet, these decisions are taken by people ho KNOW everything about the incident, they don't judge just having a look at TV images, they know all data.
But as said, that was some act that left a VERY bad mark on his career, and I personally would have banned him for two season, but that's just my opinion.
The first time he won a World Championship, he was driving a Benetton-Ford B194, powered by a Cosworth RV8, and no, it wasn't the best car that year, it was a car that needed someone VERY skilled onboard, even just in order to stay on track: the constructor's championship was won by Williams-Renault, indeed: but we shouldn't forget that that year Ayrton Senna lost his life in Imola, so we will never know how it would have ended

What a loss BTW, now THAT was the best driver of the modern F1, i have no doubts about it: i would have loved to see the two battling again for years and years.
What i'm just trying to say is that Shumacher started his career on board of karts when he was FOUR, then Formula Ford, Formula König, Formula 3, Formula 3000 and finally he came to F1, when F1 still needed real drivers: he's not a driver who has learned to drive on some bunch of electronic devices, he was a real one, and the proof that he was a champion is written seven times in the list of world champions, many people dislike it, but the list of world champions fortunately is not a matter of opinions, anyway...

As of the end of the 2008 Formula One season, Michael Schumacher holds the following F1 records:

Championship titles: 7 (1994, 1995, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004)
Consecutive titles: 5 (2000–2004)
Race victories: 91
Consecutive wins: 7 (2004, Europe–Hungary)
Wins with one team: 72 (Ferrari)
Wins at same GP: 8 (France)
Wins at different GPs: 22
Longest Time between first and last wins: 14 years, 1 month and 2 days
Second places: 43
Podiums (Top 3): 154
Consecutive podium finishes: 19 (US 2001–Japan 2002)
Points finishes: 190
Consecutive points finishes: 24 (Hungary 2001–Malaysia 2003)
Laps leading: 4741 (22,155 km)[145]
Pole positions: 68
Front row starts: 115
Fastest laps: 76
Doubles (Pole and win): 40
Perfect Score (Pole, fastest lap and win): 22
Championship points: 1,369
Most points in a season for a runner-up: 121 (2006)
Most wins in a season for a runner-up: 7 (2006)
Wins at Indianapolis (any racing class): 5
Wins at Monza (Formula One): 5
Wins in a season: 13 (72%) (2004)
Fastest laps in a season: 10 (2004)
Points scored in a season: 148 (82% of Max available) (2004)
Podium finishes in a season: 17 (100%) (2002)
Championship won with most races left: 6 (2002)
Consecutive years with a win: 15 (1992–2006)
Consecutive days as champion: 1813 (from 8 October 2000 until 25 September 2005)


Not that bad for being some untalented driver whatsoever.

posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 12:12 AM
reply to post by internos

Not that bad for being some untalented driver whatsoever.

Never said he wasn't talented. I acknowledged it.

I said he was not a quality driver or person, not worthy of admiration or respect. An undesirable.

If you or I climb into our car with a plan to go out and run someone off the road and carry out that plan, we should be charged with "assault with intent to commit grievous bodily harm" (or whatever the act is called in your favorite local jurisdiction). If someone in the other car dies, its "premeditated murder" (we planned it before we even got into the car remember).

That a PROFESSIONAL driver does it under race conditions doesn't make it any less premeditated or any less assault with intent, it makes it much worse. That he did it over a couple of championship points makes it all the more heinous. PROFESSIONAL drivers should know what the results of this kind of action can be.

Yes, I understand they were braking, they were slowing from probably 180kph to about 80kph at impact I think. Please don't suggest that getting blindsided at 80kph going around a corner is a trivial event on the track or the street.

And so what if he lost points, the championship, and was suspended? He should have gone to jail, and he shouldn't have gotten a visa to work in foreign countries. People who get busted for a single joint don't get allowed into some of the countries where F1 races are held, his crime was significantly worse.

That nobody died is wonderful, but that doesn't make the Schu a quality driver or person.

posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 04:36 PM
reply to post by rnaa

rnaa, i do respect your view, especially since i'm the same way in many other subject matters, and sport is something that should teach fairness and honesty especially to the younger people who are our future: when that incident happened, many even in Italy were debating about him deserving or not to stay on F1, ME included: as said i would have banned him for two seasons.
Talking about sport, the action was unaccettable, there are NO DOUBTS about it, as well i would have banned a lot of dudes for some seasons, like Hamilton since he didn't see a RED LIGHT while getting out from pits (isn't THAT serious enough, to don't see a red light while getting out from the
pits during a F1 RACE, in your opinion?), or Alonso for crossing the track TWICE after some off roads in Canada, or Raikkonen for hitting Sutil instead of braking coming out from Montecarlo's tunnel;
maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaany examples, i would have many ones

And Culthard, yes Coulthard, for driving so slow (suddenly slowing down, don't forget it, after a corner) in Belgium which could have killed Shumacher who hit him and by coincidence survived, because if one driver is unable to drive at some least speed or to quick change trajectory in F1 no matter the weather, should stay at home :

Shumacher saw Coulthard like you could see a wall after some turn while running very fast with some fast car, and had no chance to do anything: he could die in that crash, fortunately he didn't hit Coulthard's car rear left tyre with his front right one, otherwise... shall i remember you what happened to Gilles Villeneuve with Jochen Mass in Zolder?:

a stupid crash, but a FATAL one: don't try this in any empirical way, but add your speed to the one of the car preceeding you, then, FLY (hence no friction to slow you) and let me know if you enjoyed the result (if you can).
I hope it's clear now why he would have stragled the guy, regardless his purposes, if he could.
If we really want to talk about how to kill another driver, believe me when i say to you that a better way to kill someone (between the two) was the Coulthard's one, NOT to close the way while braking (and being on the external side of the track which is ALWAYS more dangerous and puts automatically you in a much more risky position, just check how the incident ended. Who stopped in the Villeneuve-Schumacher incident)?
Of course it wasn't Coulthard's purpose neither to kill him nor to have any crash, but Schumacher perceived it that way, adrenaline did the rest. And Shumacher was wrong, of course he was.
Now why no one proposed Coulthard's ban then? Because it is simply ABSURD that a driver would want to kill another one, to believe that means to be very far from the world of races, especially Formula 1, but not only F1: NO ONE would ever dream to kill anyone during a race, no matter the category.
If I'm a real racer then I want to beat you, even humiliate you, but ON THE TRACK, not sending you towards some wall to die.
Schumacher's reaction towards Coulthard was wrong, it is the TEAM that should handle these things, the driver should always shut TF up and go straight to get some shower, chill out etc.
But racing gives you some adrenaline that nothing else can: one gets incredibly stupid sometimes, especially if you are in competition for something VERY important.
I'll try to tell you at my best what i mean:
sporting regulations are splitted from technical ones because the two sides are considered independent each from the other: technical regulations can be breached only by the teams,
while the sporting ones can be breached by both, teams and drivers.
When they decided to punish him that way, i thought he deserved at least two years ban, i actually was disgusted by his behavior: so please don't think that i don't see the seriousness of what he did (and what you say),
that would be sad for me.
The only points i was in disagreement with your post were:
"he can steer a car" and "He has admitted to attempted murder (of Jaques Villneuve)" [Jacques Villeneuve]
There's a difference between him being unfair and him as driver; him impeeding some overtaking (unfairly)
and him trying to kill someone: his driver's qualities cannot be discussed, ask to some guy ACTUALLY working in Formula 1
who is Michael Shumacher as a driver: NO ONE will tell you that he's not the best of the last 20 years to say the least.
While his qualities as man of sport are highly questionable and i agree with you, and i have to, because you are right.
We are all humans, have strange reactions, but fortunately just a small percentage of us is actually ready to kill: and no one of those guys that you see racing is ready to, at least, not on the track, NO ONE of them, including the most stupid ones.

[edit on 12/8/2009 by internos]

posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 11:51 AM
reply to post by rnaa

You repeatedly mention 'pro drivers' as if you are putting it in the same context as I did. I said professionals would agree, not professionals would do X Y Z.

Some peoples logic really throws me.

posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 06:17 AM
reply to post by internos

I'm sorry, but trying to put 'blame' or even responsibility on Coultard for the incident in the rain is ABSURD.

First, Schumacher purposely drove into Coultard's back spray.

True, Coultard slowed down as he went around the corner, and hit a slick patch. He was clearly having handling problems and Schumacher would have been aware of it.

Second, and this applies on the track in the same way as it applies on the street, the driver in back has the responsibility. The driver in front does not have eyes in the back of his head, especially with a back spray rooster tail.

In dry conditions, Coultard would have seen Schu in his mirror and raised his hand to indicate he was slowing to let Schu past, but the conditions didn't allow this. If Schu had an ounce of brains he wouldn't have put himself in that position. And to storm the McClaren pit was the height of hypocrisy. Even if the accident was 100% Coultard's 'fault', it wasn't planned before he stepped into the car as was Schumacher's attack on Villeneuve (and yes the fact the Schu's bastardry backfired on him is a great example of karma in action, but hardly punishment for the act).

Coultard has admitted he can understand why Schu was angry, but that still doesn't justify storming the pit. Nor does it mean that Coultard was the culprit.

Sure accidents happen in racing but, without studying the other incidents you quote closely, I don't see any other drivers planning before the race to deliberately run people off the road. Point me to which example you claim the driver planned the 'accident' you describe before the race started, and I'll concede. Hamilton didn't plan to run a red light before the race started, he made a dumb mistake.

There are plenty of aggressive drivers its part of racing. Unassertive drivers don't win races. Jack Brabham didn't mind squeezing opponents into the dirt. But stealing your line on a curve is not the same as planning an 80kph crash before the race starts.

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