I "know" nothing. And neither do you.

Originally posted by mckyle
There is no knowlege. And I know that for a fact!!!

Flippancy aside.....
Kudos to the OP for a thought-provoking thread

I think that whether we know we know, or know we don't, is based purely on perception.

So therefore knowledge is fluid.


P.s. S&F for a refreshingly cerebral thread

[edit on 29-7-2009 by mckyle]

This is exactly what my thread is about, if this provoked your thought, especially the way you say it did, go read my thread.

An explanation of what we know, while we know nothing.

sorry for previous post - haven't done it before and the instructions are almost non existent.

This whole thread is just metaphysical mumbo jumbo - we are what we are or maybe we are not what we are, but in either case so what? And we have four pages of respondents slobbering over the original post! Come on guys and gals, get real....

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

reply to post by VitalOverdose

Socrates was a great thinker but this argument is just mental masterbation.

I love to hear you say it - please say it again - please :-)

I am not someone who would know -I admit up front

it's been pointed out to me by people who probably DO know that Socrates never actually said any such thing

while I love hearing people question Socrates out loud and in public - I think it would be a really useful thing if someone could clear this up once and for all

did he say it - or didn't he?

doesn't take away from the OP's point - I don't know how you could take anything away from that

but - it would still be interesting to know

this doesn't come from a lack of respect for Socrates - by the way - I think he would be one of the first to support the question

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


Well...yeah, I also find your reasoning pretty funny.
I guess thats good, that way we all laugh.


Observation: If that was really your point (that whoever claims to know something is delusional) I'm pretty serious with my point (that you are basically giving up on the quest of knowledge).

But who cares about knowledge, right?
Lets keep laughing!

reply to post by Sarah Silverman

can someone here please make my parakeet human

would if I could - it couldn't hurt

oh - please tell me you really are Sarah

I'm just going to pretend - even if you're not

See all those people on the ground
Wasting time
I try to hold it all inside
But just for tonight
The top of the world
Sitting here wishing
The things I’ve become
That something is missing
Maybe I…
But what do I know


And now it seems that I have found
Nothing at all
I want to hear your voice out loud
Slow it down, slow it down
Without it all
I’m choking on nothing
It’s clear in my head
And I’m screaming for something
Knowing nothing is better than knowing it all

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


I gotta say, you are a pretty funny dude.
I love your signature too.
You are now my friend.

[edit on 29-7-2009 by Geladinhu]

Musician John Nolan (original Rhythm guitarist of Taking Back Sunday, and now front man of Straylight Run) summed it up best with his song, 'It's For the Best'

The more I learn, the more I can't understand.

Good thread OP, I enjoyed your thoughts and those who piped in as well.

-Sliadon

It's always something you can think about. Great thread! I keep trying to find answers for myself, but none of them are reliable, I cannot know that they are true and substantial. S&F

I could also add a line from a Bob Dylan song: 'I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now'. Or even the well known french saying 'Plus ca change plus ces la meme chose'.
But I still think it's metaphysical gobblydegook...

reply to post by Sliadon

reply to post by ah...dehavilland


Once you look past his hard Heroin and Cocaine struggles, you will see Bob Dylan had many great songs which spoke wisdom beyond many of his contemporaries.

"With God on Our Side"

Oh my name it is nothin'
My age it means less
The country I come from
Is called the Midwest
I's taught and brought up there
The laws to abide
And that land that I live in
Has God on its side.

Oh the history books tell it
They tell it so well
The cavalries charged
The Indians fell
The cavalries charged
The Indians died
Oh the country was young
With God on its side.

Oh the Spanish-American
War had its day
And the Civil War too
Was soon laid away
And the names of the heroes
I's made to memorize
With guns in their hands
And God on their side.

Oh the First World War, boys
It came and it went.
The reason for fighting
I never got straight
But I learned to accept it
Accept it with pride
For you don't count the dead
When God's on your side.

When the Second World War
Came to an end
We forgave the Germans
And we were friends
Though they murdered six million
In the ovens they fried
The Germans now too
Have God on their side.

I've learned to hate Russians
All through my whole life
If another war starts
It's them we must fight
To hate them and fear them
To run and to hide
And accept it all bravely
With God on my side.

But now we got weapons
Of the chemical dust
If fire them we're forced to
Then fire them we must
One push of the button
And a shot the world wide
And you never ask questions
When God's on your side.

In a many dark hour
I've been thinkin' about this
That Jesus Christ
Was betrayed by a kiss
But I can't think for you
You'll have to decide
Whether Judas Iscariot
Had God on his side.

So now as I'm leavin'
I'm weary as hell
The confusion I'm feelin'
Ain't no tongue can tell
The words fill my head
And fall to the floor
If God's on our side
He'll stop the next war.

sorry for the length... I included the entirety of the song to show people not familiar with his music the lyrical progression of it.

-Sliadon

reply to post by Geladinhu


I already miss Sarah :-(

I think she made a very valuable contribution

and - it was also funny

:-)

was the point lost in the humor maybe?

after all - we're really only discussing how ignorant we all are - right?

and how ignorant we are of the true scope of our ignorance...

seems like a parakeet would be able to keep up

leaning back in the direction of serious - I think it's fine to wonder - and entertain the idea that it's possible we don't really know anything

I don't think it's fine to insist on it

and I think the words certainty and knowing are not the same words

yes, I know - semantics

but - it's why we have so many words - different words mean different things - it's why they're useful

or - they could be

(none of this is meant for you Geladinhu - and you're my friend too - but not JUST because you think I'm funny)

:-)


[edit on 7/29/2009 by Spiramirabilis]

I KNOW i love my babies
Allways will!

thank you, I am familiar with that song. In fact I have been a Dylan fan since the mid 60s and have all of his records/books/films. He is, in my opinion, the greatest poet of the 20th century. But I think we are getting a bit off topic.
But I appreciate the reply.


reply to post by Sliadon

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

But, really, what is life but paradox.

i know this for an absolute, and no one can argue.life is a paradox
in a big way.

life is a death sentence

Bob Dylan

is a genius

[edit on 29-7-2009 by randyvs]

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”
-Socrates

Main Entry: 1know
Pronunciation: \ˈnō\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): knew \ˈnü also ˈnyü\ ; known \ˈnōn\ ; know·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English cnāwan; akin to Old High German bichnāan to recognize, Latin gnoscere, noscere to come to know, Greek gignōskein
Date: before 12th century
transitive verb
1 a (1): to perceive directly : have direct cognition of (2): to have understanding of (3): to recognize the nature of : discern b (1): to recognize as being the same as something previously known (2): to be acquainted or familiar with (3): to have experience of
2 a: to be aware of the truth or factuality of : be convinced or certain of b: to have a practical understanding of
3archaic : to have sexual intercourse with
intransitive verb
1: to have knowledge
2: to be or become cognizant —sometimes used interjectionally with you especially as a filler in informal speech
— know·able \ˈnō-ə-bəl\ adjective
— know·er \ˈnō-ər\ noun
— know from : to have knowledge of

SOURCE:know @ merriam-Webster.com
Seriously, you believe you "know" something. But none of us truly "know" anything. And it is when we delude ourselves into believing and stop questioning something that we believe we know anything. Think of everything that mankind has convinced himself that he "knew" through out history. How much of that has been proven incorrect? How can you justify believing yourself somehow better than they? Are you somhow less failable and beyond them? Our senses can be tricked. And we can trick ourselves and if we let them others can trick us.

Just something to consider. A great number of possibilities believed to be impossible can only be dismissed with the incredulity of a peson who has deluded themselves they know *or others they have faith in to "know"* all that is within the realm of "possible".

[edit on 28-7-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

now, the paradox is, to say this and to state factually or authoratively (you, or socrates) , then you are violating your own pithy saying, making it worthless.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”
-Socrates

Main Entry: 1know
Pronunciation: \ˈnō\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): knew \ˈnü also ˈnyü\ ; known \ˈnōn\ ; know·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English cnāwan; akin to Old High German bichnāan to recognize, Latin gnoscere, noscere to come to know, Greek gignōskein
Date: before 12th century
transitive verb
1 a (1): to perceive directly : have direct cognition of (2): to have understanding of (3): to recognize the nature of : discern b (1): to recognize as being the same as something previously known (2): to be acquainted or familiar with (3): to have experience of
2 a: to be aware of the truth or factuality of : be convinced or certain of b: to have a practical understanding of
3archaic : to have sexual intercourse with
intransitive verb
1: to have knowledge
2: to be or become cognizant —sometimes used interjectionally with you especially as a filler in informal speech
— know·able \ˈnō-ə-bəl\ adjective
— know·er \ˈnō-ər\ noun
— know from : to have knowledge of

SOURCE:know @ merriam-Webster.com
Seriously, you believe you "know" something. But none of us truly "know" anything. And it is when we delude ourselves into believing and stop questioning something that we believe we know anything. Think of everything that mankind has convinced himself that he "knew" through out history. How much of that has been proven incorrect? How can you justify believing yourself somehow better than they? Are you somhow less failable and beyond them? Our senses can be tricked. And we can trick ourselves and if we let them others can trick us.

Just something to consider. A great number of possibilities believed to be impossible can only be dismissed with the incredulity of a peson who has deluded themselves they know *or others they have faith in to "know"* all that is within the realm of "possible".

[edit on 28-7-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

There is no greater wisdom than this!!!! I think that so many of our problems would cease to exist if people would accept that we only know what we have been told, which mean you really know nothing!

Embrace Ignorance and stop depending on Hope!

the ancients were the ancients.

now, is now.

we know a great deal of things.

Your average person has an incredible education level when compared to someone even only a few hundred years ago. A noble of the 16th century would have a hard time competing with the vast knowledge by comparison that a 6th grader possesses for instance.

if we , well...waste so much time ruminating on what is real what is not real, we will miss out on the chance to do the real work of being. That is, fetching wood and carrying water.

100 years from now, none of us will be known to anyone most likely right?

agreed. notice my signature.