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Freemason 32nd Degree Ritual

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posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
You know, its true that guys like me and MrNecros do a better job recruiting for the Masons than you guys do for yourselves.

Look at all the 18 year old kids we've got clamoring over this place. They believe US, they suck up to you. Perfect system, even they know they can't trust a word out of your mouth until they are your 'Brothers'.

The only way we can expect an honest answer is for someone who has undergone both degrees to come forward. If there is no such person, we will take MrNecros word for it, because he has MUCH less reason to lie, and DENY than any Freemason.



And what has that got to do with this?


Freemason 32nd Degree Ritual

As documented in Charles T McClenachan's "Book of the Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry (1884)"
For all the "32nd degree masons" (yeah right...) who frequent this BBS.
All other folk equally welcome.


You know? The topic?




posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by MrNECROS
How can there be LOTs of Differences if they both use the same "Tracing Board"?


Because they teach the SAME BASIC LESSONS in a very DIFFERENT WAY. What's so freaking hard to understand about that? The so-called "Camp" in the 32nd Degree of the NMJ is BARELY mentioned. The crux of the degree focuses on Constans (remember HIM?) In the SJ the "Camp" (tracing board) forms almost the ENTIRE Degree. In the NMJ the description of the camp takes up 4 small pages, in the SJ it takes up a couple of DOZEN large pages. It might further interest you to know that the current version of the 32nd degree of the Northern Masonic Jurisdiction does not even have a PICTURE of the tracing-board in it.
I'll say this one more time (although I don't know why I'm wasting my precious time with you.) The degrees of the NMJ have CONSTANTLY been revised. For some reason it's the opinion of the keepers of those degrees that modernizing them improves them. As I stated once before, one of the degrees (the 22nd *I think*) focuses on the 4 Chaplains who gave up their life vests to save others in WWI. There's NO SUCH degree in the SJ or any other Supreme Council. The degree title in the NMJ is the same and the basic lesson taught is the same, but the DEGREE is VASTLY DIFFERENT.



A tracing board is the "map of the degree"


Well...not exactly but it's of little significance here anyway. Besides if I thoroughly explained what a Tracing Board is, I doubt you could or WOULD understand it.



- if a ritual is significantly different it would have to have a significantly different Tracing Board.


Not when the basic lessons taught are the same, but presented in a very different manner. Try this on for size, the 32nd Degree ritual of the NMJ consists of 14 pages (5" x 8"). The 32nd Degree ritual of the SJ consists of 94 pages (8 1/2" x 11") Sounds like the NMJ did some chopping doesn't it?



Nope I'm afraid you are just making this up as you go along,


Thanks for calling me a liar. I wish I could call you what I think you are, but I'd get moderated! Besides I'm not making this up as I go along, you, with your complete lack of knowledge and understanding of the Ancient & Accepted Rite (sometimes called "Scottish) are making up YOUR nonsense as YOU go along....and not very well at that.



besides this is "The Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite" - it is uniform in most respects, hense why it is "Accepted."


Think so? Let me throw THIS at you. In the US the organizational structure of the SJ & NMJ are divided differently. In the SJ the four "bodies" of the Rite consist of the 4-14 degrees (Lodge of Perfection) 15-18 Degrees (Chapter Rose Croix) 19-30th Degrees (Council of Kadosh) 31&32 Degrees (Consistory--MASTERS of the Royal Secret) In the NMJ the four bodies are: 4-14 (Lodge of Perfection...same as SJ) 15&16 Degrees (Council of Princes of Jerusalem) 17 & 18 Degrees (Chapter Rose Croix) 19-32 degrees (Consistory, SUBLIME PRINCES of the Royal Secret) In the US, Canada, Mexico and other places, ANY Master Mason in good standing is eligible for membership and will upon petitioning receive the 4th - 32nd Degrees inclusive. Most of them are "communicated" and not conferred. the only degrees that are REQUIRED to be conferred in entirety are the 4th , 14th, 18th, 30th and 32nd. If he works hard for the Rite in the SJ he MIGHT someday become a Knight Commander of the Court of Honor (KCCH) The KCCH doesn't exist in the NMJ. If he works hard as a KCCH he MIGHT become a 33rd someday and all officers of the Supreme Council (in both jurisdictions) are 33rds.
In other parts of the world, ONLY CHRISTIANS are admitted to the Scottish Rite. In some areas (the United Kingdom for example) one receives the 4th - 17th by title only and has the 18th Conferred upon him. If he works his butt off, he MIGHT receive the 30th someday and will likely NEVER receive the 31st & 32nd Degrees. 33rds are the officers of the Supreme Council only. So they confer (upon some) the 18th, 30th, 31st, 32nd and 33rd. I'm not even certain they HAVE full rituals for the other degrees, although they likely do....in a dusty old book in the vault somewhere.

So much for your silly theory of why it's called "Accepted" huh? That didn't even make sense. But wait, coming from you, why would it?



Anyway, as it stands at the moment your current BS is thus:
This is ...ummmm...not the Ancient Accepted Scotish Rite because ....ummmm...we have said so 30-40 times and we keep saying so....and you can't know what it is because it's really a Satanic Ritual ....ummm no its not....ahhhhh...you are an idiot...etc....etc...


I never said anything of the sort. You're the one spouting BS. And I've got to wonder why. Could it be because you have a copy of a very old (and good) Scottish Rite book that's NO SECRET and NEVER WAS but you're trying to pawn it off on the ignorant as such and those of us in the know are calling your hand on it.



Anyway if you feel like having a bit of a peek at all the hocus pocus mumbo jumbo that your worshipful masters get up to when you're not around, feel free to download the full work and have a good old read.


For the 10th time, I'VE READ IT. I have THREE copies of McClenachan's book!!!!! and several other similar ones from earlier and later than CTM's version. I have ALL the rituals of the NMJ and SJ as well as the full rituals of several other Supreme Councils (including some of the "clandestine" and "irregular" versions like the various Cerneau Councils and the old Supereme Council of Louisiana. Can you not read?????

Besides, when it all boils down to it, what business is any of it to you? You're not a Mason and by the grace of God you never will be. Why don't you stick your nose in something that's actually YOUR business and leave the Masons business alone?


[edit on 18-3-2005 by senrak]

[edit on 18-3-2005 by senrak]

[edit on 18-3-2005 by senrak]



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 01:00 AM
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Originally posted by akilles
The only way we can expect an honest answer is for someone who has undergone both degrees to come forward. If there is no such person, we will take MrNecros word for it, because he has MUCH less reason to lie, and DENY than any Freemason.



Actually MrsNECROS has proven herself to be very much AGAINST freemasonry and therefore has EVERY reason to lie. Besides, her outrageous claims are just simply not believable by anyone with half a brain. We have no reason to lie because we are sticking up for our fraternity as well as our honor.

Besides, all of our answers have always been VERY consistent and very thorough. Either we're all HEAVILY trained to lie about the fraternity, or we're telling the truth.



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 01:06 AM
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akilles, if your gonna hang with necros ya might want to keep an eye
on your toilet. I hear strange things happen to them when hes around.



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 01:17 AM
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The logical statement being:

MrNecros has much less motive to lie than any member of any Ancient and Accepted group, who's only obligation is to provide a friendly exterior to those inquisitive enough to look deeper.

You Masons, talk about how there is 92 pages to the ritual. Who gives a damn, it all comes down to a whisper in your ear, and a light bulb in your brain, if you hadn't figured it out already.

abaddon



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 01:48 AM
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Senrak - have you actually read the pages I've posted?
The 32nd Degree begins with an introduction to all the officers present in "The Camp" - each officer is represented in the tracing board by a flag or banner which in turn represent the morality of the 14 significant degrees borne by the Jewel of each ritual.
Constans is finally being allowed into the innermost circle and the right to wear the armor of the order but must consider the whole of his Masonic training in order to complete his vigil then he will be given "the Royal Secret."

These elements (as well as all the other major components of the rite) are all in the tracing board and are explained in the book I have made available + are cross-referenced by the Dutch site.

By the way, you've got your BS in a real tangle saying that the Northern Jurisdiction doesn’t have a tracing board of “The Camp” – it’s on the front of a 32nd Degree Apron, the point that started this thread in the first place…ummm you have read this thread haven’t you?



[edit on 19-3-2005 by MrNECROS]



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 01:54 AM
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Originally posted by akilles
MrNecros has much less motive to lie than any member of any Ancient and Accepted group, who's only obligation is to provide a friendly exterior to those inquisitive enough to look deeper.


Like I said before, all of our answers have always been VERY consistent and very thorough. Either we're all HEAVILY trained to lie about the fraternity, or we're telling the truth.

You have stated MANY times that we, as low level masons, dont know what the fraternity REALLY is about. We think it's just a friendly fraternity that teaches us morals, but we're really following our master's evil plans.

Now you're saying we know what's up, and are lying to cover for the evil deeds of the fraternity.

You've completely contradicted yourself. NOW who's lying?



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 05:17 AM
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Originally posted by akilles


MrNecros has much less motive to lie than any member of any Ancient and Accepted group, who's only obligation is to provide a friendly exterior to those inquisitive enough to look deeper.




MrNecros is an out an out liar. For the past year or so he has been accusing Freemasonry of devil-worshipping, whilst all the while hiding the fact that he is a self proclaimed Satanist.
His credibility rating is zero.



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 05:47 AM
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Originally posted by MrNECROS
Senrak - have you actually read the pages I've posted?


I hate to admit it, but Yes. I've read your posts.



The 32nd Degree begins with an introduction to all the officers present in "The Camp" - each officer is represented in the tracing board by a flag or banner which in turn represent the morality of the 14 significant degrees borne by the Jewel of each ritual.


Yes. The 1884 version that you have. Right. The 2004 version is not like that. (Even though your dilusioned mind is convinced it is) The current NMJ version begins with the allegory of Constans, who represents, figuratively, every Freemason. Constans is caught between self-interest and his call to duty. The Engineer (I don't believe your 1884 version HAS an officer called that) explains the symbolic "Camp" to Constans (the Candidate for the degree) in 3 1/2 short pages, then the Allegory of Constans continues, with Constans going on his journey to duty and ultimately receiving the "Royal Secret" None (did you understand that, NONE) of the Flags and Pennons are mentioned AT ALL ! ! ! At ALL. They've dropped that. There's none of that business about "Sir Knight, thou are now in form and semblance, and by declaration...etc. etc." All that's been changed.

By the way, in case you're not smart enough to know this, in your Monitor (The Book of the Ancient & Accepted Scottish Rite) do you see all those blank areas that have * * * * * * * * * in them? That's where paragraphs of esoteric text are omitted. Only the full ritual has the full text in it. That's why you see no Obligation. You see the text that says "Sir Knight, if you have in good faith assumed the obligations . . ." That's where the obligation is then administered, but not printed in any Monitor. Sorry.



Constans is finally being allowed into the innermost circle and the right to wear the armor of the order but must consider the whole of his Masonic training in order to complete his vigil then he will be given "the Royal Secret."


Wow. You got something right. Bravo! That's still the basic teaching of the degree, without the Templary twist any more....



These elements (as well as all the other major components of the rite) are all in the tracing board and are explained in the book I have made available + are cross-referenced by the Dutch site.


You're hung up on that tracing board (I LIKE that tracing board, by the way) but the Dutch site includes the 1981 version of the ritual, not the 2004 version. It's been bastardized yet again I'm sad to say.

In fact, the version I have mentions the following revisions (It explains each one in short detail, but I'm not inclined to type all that out right now) This will give you an idea how many times the NMJ has revised it.

Earliest version: 1783 (The Royal Secret, which was then the 25th Degree of the Rite of Perfection---the highest degree of the Rite at that time)

1801 Version (Charleston Supreme Council, now the Southern Jurisdiction)

1866-67 (Major revision at the "Union" which solidified the NMJ)

1875 (Major revision)

1877 (Optional use ritual)

1911-12 (Tentative Ritual, later adopted as official)

1916 ("After a brief ritualistic opening, there is a Ceremonial Section with a CONDENSED SYMBOLISM OF THE CAMP representing Scottish Rite Bodies and not the INDIVIDUAL DEGREES (emphasis mine...THERE'S that change Mrs. Necros)

1934 (No substantial change)

1950 (A few minor changes)

1978 (Modernized language...no "Thee, Thou, etc."

1981 (Major revision and abbreviation)

2004 (Major revision)

So you can see (well thinking people can see) that the 1884 version would have been quite different than what's being used today.



By the way, you've got your BS in a real tangle saying that the Northern Jurisdiction doesn’t have a tracing board of “The Camp” – it’s on the front of a 32nd Degree Apron, the point that started this thread in the first place…ummm you have read this thread haven’t you?


I NEVER said they DIDN'T. I said it's NO LONGER IN THE FREAKING RITUAL. The symbols remain much the same. The Ritual DOESN'T What's hard to understand about that?

Speaking of Aprons...ask for a show of hands of how many 32nd Degree Masons HAVE a 32nd Degree Apron? Likely very few. We don't wear them. They're shown in the degree along with the cordon & Sash, etc. and their meaning is explained, but that's it. We don't get hung up on stuff like that the way you apparently do. Strange fascination you have there...particularly with tracing-boards.



[edit on 19-3-2005 by senrak]



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 08:49 AM
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[

MrNecros is an out an out liar. For the past year or so he has been accusing Freemasonry of devil-worshipping, whilst all the while hiding the fact that he is a self proclaimed Satanist.
His credibility rating is zero.


Mr Necross is a person who hates Freemasons and Freemasonry. I suspect that we will never know why he has the perfidic contempt for Freemasons. It might be because he was 'blackballed' from becoming a Freemason. It might be that he feels Freemasons destroyed his toilet. He might also have a belief that Freemasons are part of the so called World conspiracy. I am sure that he will tell us why.

Brother Gerard O'Donnell SC



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 08:49 AM
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[

MrNecros is an out an out liar. For the past year or so he has been accusing Freemasonry of devil-worshipping, whilst all the while hiding the fact that he is a self proclaimed Satanist.
His credibility rating is zero.


Mr Necross is a person who hates Freemasons and Freemasonry. I suspect that we will never know why he has the perfidic contempt for Freemasons. It might be because he was 'blackballed' from becoming a Freemason. It might be that he feels Freemasons destroyed his toilet. He might also have a belief that Freemasons are part of the so called World conspiracy. I am sure that he will tell us why.

Brother Gerard O'Donnell SC



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 09:00 AM
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Wow Gerard - where is all this obsession with Satanism coming from?

I am not a Satanist, self-proclaimed or otherwise although during the latter part of my attempted "Initiation" I told a bunch of people I was to see what their reaction would be and it was "interesting."

Maybe you've been having words with them down the pub?
I put their website logo as my desktop wallpaper and bought a T-Shirt saying TEAM SATAN 666 and strangely enough that seemed to be enough to convince them!
Having said that, they didn't seem too bothered by the prospect of me being a LaVey Satanist, (“It will be an interesting addition.”)

In the end they *finally* figured out I was taking the piss but resisted the temptation to tell me to FARK OFF (which I REALLY wanted by that stage) and insinuated that I would have to join an affiliated French Lodge because I was an atheist.
So I started another piss-take of "But I'm English - We HATE the French!"
Which again, they strangely, took seriously.
This was all after I had verbally told these people "I do not wish to become a Freemason" at least once, maybe twice; obviously they didn't think I was sufficiently educated as to what it was in order that I could make my mind up so early on.

Anyway feel free to bang on about me being a Satanist all you want – I couldn’t give a rats @rse.


[edit on 19-3-2005 by MrNECROS]



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 09:16 AM
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So Senerak, according to your last post- we are to take it then that Freemasonary is completely arbitrary, the rituals are meaningless and provide NO moral guidance whatsoever with no relation to the "works" that have gone before and its just about wearing pretty costumes with intricate symbolism that none of you actually understand?


Actually according to GadFly that’s about right.



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 09:51 AM
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Originally posted by MrNECROS
So Senerak, according to your last post- we are to take it then that Freemasonary is completely arbitrary, the rituals are meaningless and provide NO moral guidance whatsoever with no relation to the "works" that have gone before and its just about wearing pretty costumes with intricate symbolism that none of you actually understand?


Nope. You're the one telling THAT lie. The Scottish Rite controls and governs itself and has the right to do WHATEVER it pleases with it's rituals (4th - 33rd Degrees) whether you like it or not (or whether the general membership likes it or not for that matter) The same moral lessons are taught throughout the Scottish Rite degrees....just the words and ceremonies used to teach them have been modified (in the case of the NMJ VASTLY) throughout the years. The WHOLE point of the matter is, Chas. T. McClenachan's book contains partial (FAR FROM COMPLETE) texts of what used to be the rituals of the NMJ. Some of the text is still fairly accurate, some is now completely different. In every degree, however, the moral lessons intended to be taught remain the same. CTM's book is an excellent piece of Masonic history. But it's not some super-secret, highly-guarded book like you claim. Anyone with some $ could buy it back then and anyone who wants to do a search on Advanced Book Exchange or some similar used book seller site can buy it today.

Pretty plain and simple. I'd think even YOU could understand something simple.

[edit on 19-3-2005 by senrak]



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 10:41 AM
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Mr. Necros - you claim to be "Fighting the Evil Free-Masons" via your Lunatic Postings. Yet anyone can see that you hold a Grudge & are Posting Pure Propaganda! You are making all of these little silly arguments that DON'T MEAN ANYTHING! It has already been stated that Masons Don't Eat Babies - Don't Worship Satan & are Not Really Reptilians! Yet you Persist! Do you mind telling us just what is so "Evil" about the
Free-Masons again? From your Delusional Postings I would say that YOU are the one with a Thing for Evil! Your Personal Website ( www.drevil666.com... ) is a Joke you say - how are we supposed to know? Are you sure that YOU are not the "Evil Satanist" here Mr. Necros? It is either that - or you just simply have MENTAL PROBLEMS!


[edit on 19-3-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 19-3-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 10:51 AM
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Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
Mr. Necros - you claim to be "Fighting the Evil Free-Masons" via your Lunatic Postings. Yet anyone can see that you hold a Grudge & are Posting Pure Propaganda! You are making all of these little silly arguments that DON'T MEAN ANYTHING. It has already been stated the Mason Don't Eat Babies - Don't Worship Satan & are not Really Reptilians! Yet you Persist! Do you mind telling us just what is so "Evil" about the
Free-Masons again? From your Delusional Postings I would say that YOU are the one with a Thing for Evil! Your Personal Website () is a Joke you say - how are we supposed to know? Are you sure that YOU are not the Satanist here Mr. Necros?


I don't think Mrs Necros is smart enough to do any of those things. I think she's a miserable lonely person who derives pleasure out of causing trouble and spreading lies about people she's never even met and knows NOTHING about. I wish she'd dig up an old Odd Fellows book from the 19th Century and tell us how evil THEY are. Their ritual hasn't changed much, except now (in the USA anyway) they allow women to be full members. Talk about "Odd Fellows"



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by akilles
A completely different ritual with a completely different meaning.


A completely different ritual, yes. As for a different meaning, I would say yes also, but that is only my personal opinion.


So you have undergone both?


No; I'm a member of the Southern Jurisdiction, and thus have received the Pike version of the 32°.


So Zoroastrians were in no way involved with sacrifice? (I know it was trendy, I want to know if they did it or not)


No, and Zoroastrians are still around; especially in Iran where they are called Parsis, but they suffer systematic persecution by the Shi'ites.

Zoroastrians follow the teachings of the Persian Prophet Zarathustra (Latinized as "Zoroaster"). The religion has many parallels to Christianity; in fact, the priesthood of the Zoroastrians are called Magi, and it was a band of these clerics who visited the Christ Child with gifts in the Gospel of Matthew.

Theologically, the Zoroastrians believe in One Good and Eternal God, whom in the Zend language they call Ahura Mazda which roughly translates into "Benevolent Creator". They also believe in a supernatural being of evil whom they call Ahriman, which is roughly parallel to the Christian devil. On the day of judgement, Ahura Mazda will imprison Ahriman for eternity, and establish a kingdom of the blessed.

The Holy Book of Zoroastrianism is the Zend Avesta, and can be read here:

www.ishwar.com...



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 11:04 AM
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Originally posted by MrNECROS
In utter desperation to try to convince yourself that the ritual as published in "The Book Of Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite Freemasonry (1888)" is NOT the real macoy


lol, I don't have to "convince myself"; I'm officer in the degree, and have a large part of the ritual memorized. And chances are I've been conferring the degree before you've even heard of it.



you now claim that the real thing is a Satanic Ritual calling upon the Aryan ancesters in Madam Blavatsky style!


And yet another lie from Necros; I've claimed no such thing. I've simply pointed out that the degree gives the history and philosophy of Zoroastrianism, along with the more primitive beliefs that they derived from, namely, the pre-Hindu ancient Aryans. The Rig Veda itself states that the Aryans were the fathers of the Vedas, so I'm at a complete loss as to why you want to argue about it. Simply put, it's something everyone already knows. Your arguments are similar to an attempt to convince us that the grass is blue and the sky is green.



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 11:05 AM
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Originally posted by MrNECROS
In utter desperation to try to convince yourself that the ritual as published in "The Book Of Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite Freemasonry (1888)" is NOT the real macoy


lol, I don't have to "convince myself"; I'm officer in the degree, and have a large part of the ritual memorized. And chances are I've been conferring the degree before you've even heard of it.



you now claim that the real thing is a Satanic Ritual calling upon the Aryan ancesters in Madam Blavatsky style!


And yet another lie from Necros; I've claimed no such thing. I've simply pointed out that the degree gives the history and philosophy of Zoroastrianism, along with the more primitive beliefs that they derived from, namely, the pre-Hindu ancient Aryans. The Rig Veda itself states that the Aryans were the fathers of the Vedas, so I'm at a complete loss as to why you want to argue about it. Simply put, it's something everyone already knows. Your arguments are similar to an attempt to convince us that the grass is blue and the sky is green.



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 04:33 PM
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Once a man goes the Scottish Rite Does he meet in a different place than that of the Blue Lodge or is he just toating around all those degrees on his belt, while continuing to meet in the Blue Lodge? I know the Shriners have a seperate meeting but am not sure about the scottish Rite or york Rite for that matter. I was thinking I will one day travel by way of the Scottish Rite but have not made up my mind yet.




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