Originally posted by MrNECROS
If the ritual as I have posted it is not the REAL thing, then why is its regalia and tracing board ("The Camp") EXACTLY the same as the one on a REAL apron?

I’ve already answered this question on this same thread (more than once). I realize that you and logic are not the best of friends, so I will direct this proposition to the other readers:

Why would a Mason (in this case, Brother Charles T. McClenachan, 33°) publish rituals to which he has vowed to keep private? If he had done this, wouldn’t he have been expelled?
The answer, of course, is yes. Had McClenachan published the ritual as used, he would be guilty of unmasonic conduct, and excommunicated from the Fraternity, which he was not.
McClenachan published an earlier version of the ritual for the purpose of study. Pike did the same thing in publishing his “Magnum Opus”, which contains the pre-revised ritual of the Southern Jurisdiction. Comparing Pike’s work to McClenachan’s will show many similarities.
The Rev. Jonathan Blanchard also published a series of rituals in a book called “Scotch Rite Masonry Illustrated”, which contains the ritual used by the Cernaeu Supreme Council in New York (an irregular Scottish Rite organization that was at one time in rivalry with the two regular American Supreme Councils). There are also similarities in these rituals to the ones published by Pike and McClenachan.
Pike also published an early version of the 33° ritual, in a book titled “Old Cahier of the 33°”. All of these books are available from Kessinger and Barnes & Noble, if anyone is interested.
Descriptions of the degree rituals currently in use in the Southern Jurisdiction can be found in Dr. Rex Hutchens’ “A Bridge To Light”. These descriptions concern the 1871 Standard Pike Ritual, which is worked by the Southern Jurisdiction, both American Prince Hall Councils with modification, and several foreign Supreme Councils (but not the Supreme Councils of England and Wales, Scotland, or Australia, who use the traditional chivalric theme degrees).

Fiat Lvx.


[Edited on 24-5-2004 by Masonic Light]

In the category of "Most Futile Attempts to Enlighten the Obstinate Troll" its...*envelope opens*... Masonic Light, in a landside! *ML accepts the Award (A Golden Keyboard with Wear Proof Keys and a copy of Mirthful Me's "How To Translate The Mindless Rants of the Inane [subtitled: Understanding MrNECROS]" thunderous applause erupts, let the party begin. You are indeed a man of virtue ML, I have long since directed my efforts elsewhere, your patience on the "Rough Ashlar" that is impervious to "Good and Square Work" is without peer; I salute you sir!







[Edited on 24-5-2004 by Mirthful Me]

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
In the category of "Most Futile Attempts to Enlighten the Obstinate Troll" its...*envelope opens*... Masonic Light, in a landside!

BWAHAHAHA!

And again you fail to answer a question that should be obvious even to a child.
You HAVE NOT posted a reply to this very straightforward question but to call you a liar is unnecessary.

Let me get this right, you are now claiming that Charles T McClenechan's “Book of the Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite (1884)” is a fake?

Which still does not explain (sigh...again...), if the ritual as I have posted it is not the REAL thing, then why is its regalia and tracing board ("The Camp") EXACTLY the same as the one on a REAL apron?

igh>... I'm a sucker for punishment, I have no doubt, but here we go:

The reason that the diagram of the camp is the same as that on the apron is because the guy who wrote the Cerneau Rite had already read the correct 32nd degree ritual, and stole the diagram from it. Simple? Yes, but the truth. It is no different than if I snuck into your house, Mr. Necros, and marked down the position of the furniture. Then, I could write a ritual where you sacrificed babies (all to the greater good of www.freemasonrywatch.org, no doubt), after drawing a diagram of the present arrangement of furniture in your living room, then telling where the baby manacles, the baby torture devices, and the itsy-bitsy baby devil altar should go. Doesn't mean you actually sacrifice babies, Mr. Necros... just means I saw your living room.

If it Walks like a mason , shoot it.
If it Talks like a Mason , shoot it.
If it Looks like a Mason, shoot it.

If it walks like a Duck, shoot it, it could turn out to be a Mason.

Originally posted by MrNECROS
And again you fail to answer a question that should be obvious even to a child.
You HAVE NOT posted a reply to this very straightforward question but to call you a liar is unnecessary.

Let me get this right, you are now claiming that Charles T McClenechan's “Book of the Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite (1884)” is a fake?

Which still does not explain (sigh...again...), if the ritual as I have posted it is not the REAL thing, then why is its regalia and tracing board ("The Camp") EXACTLY the same as the one on a REAL apron?

Did he call the man a liar? OR did he say that similar to Pike McClenechan published PREVIOUSLY USED RITUALS. They are real in the sense that they exist and were at one point but are not real in the sense that they are no longer the rituals used by masonry. Going with AK's analogy if you threw away your couch and I stole it smeered it with blood and took pictures of it posting them on the internet saying you sacrifice small boys to the greater good of freemasonrywatch.org it DOES NOT MEAN that the couch is currently yours. It used to be yours and looks exactly like yours, but is not now. SAME THING.

Open those eyes of yours and let some truth shine in.

Vir Fidelis

This is getting ridiculous, the Cernaeu Rite (which doesn’t actually exist as far as I’m aware) was originally in this message thread said to be an old English rite that has some minor similarities to the Scottish Rite.
Now it appears that whomever wrote it owned a time machine and managed to jump forward to after the reformation by Pike so he could steal the design and paste it into the rite which is suddenly no longer located in England but now has its Supreme council in New York.
None of this explains why the book repeatedly refers to the rite as the Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite (like, its written on the top of every second page for a start) and also describes the entire structure of the Northern US Supreme Council and all processes used in Lodges of this Rite in 1884.

Oh hang on – you just admitted that you’re forbidden to tell people what the rites contain – so I guess the whole story about the laurel wreath and the caps etc is ********
The usual Masonic disinformation nonsense continues.

Incidentally a big thank you to “Mirthful Me” for his unwitting compliment in referring to me as a “Rough Ashlar.”
Have a read of the 14th Degree – Perfect & Sublime Master Elect to find out what “The Rough Ashlar” actually refers to.

I haven’t finished posting all the pages of this work yet – don’t worry I’ve almost completed the editing now, raw scanning was completed about a month ago.
There is now also a 35MB zip of 600 1200x1600 4 colour GIFs which I can’t fit on my personal web space but if anyone knows where I can place it for public FTP access before my proper site gets up and running please let me know.
These can be printed directly for a full paper copy of the book in commercial resolution.

Originally posted by MrNECROS
This is getting ridiculous, the Cernaeu Rite (which doesn’t actually exist as far as I’m aware) was originally in this message thread said to be an old English rite that has some minor similarities to the Scottish Rite.

No. The Cerneau Rite was founded by Joseph Cerneau, a French member of the Rite of Perfection, who had moved to Jamaica and illegally began conferring degrees which he called “Scottish Rite” throughout the Caribbean and southern US, especially in the French-speaking areas of Louisiana. After Cerneau’s death, his Rite moved northward, and established a Supreme Council of the 33° in New York City, which began chartering spurious Scottish Rite bodies.
The Sublime Scotch Lodge of Charleston, which was the legitimate Supreme Council of the 33°, then chartered a new Supreme Council in NYC to combat the irregularities of the Cerneau Scottish Rite. This was the birth of the Supreme Council, 33°, Northern Jurisdiction, and its Charter is legitimate, having issued from the Grand Orient of Charleston.

50 years later, when Pike became Grand Commander of the Charleston Council, he succeeded in eliminating Cerneauism in the Southern Jurisdiction by “healing” the Cerneau Scottish Rite Masons, making them regular. In turn, the former Cerneauists agreed to recognize no other Scottish Rite authority than the Charleston Council. The Supreme Council of NY followed suit, and the schism was healed nationwide. Only then, was Cerneauism exported to England.

The Cerneauists used rituals written by Joseph Cerneau, based on the original Rite of Perfection, and were published during the US Civil War by Jonathan Blanchard in the book called “Scotch Rite Masonry Illustrated”. There are still small Cerneau Lodges in existence in Jamaica and the UK. They never used the Pike Ritual, which is limited to the Southern Jurisdiction USA (including Taiwan), as well as the Phillipines and Japan, who had later adopted the Pike work, although they are not under the obedience of the Charleston Council.

Now it appears that whomever wrote it owned a time machine and managed to jump forward to after the reformation by Pike so he could steal the design and paste it into the rite which is suddenly no longer located in England but now has its Supreme council in New York.

No, it appears you are unable to understand English, in which case I will begin writing in Pig Latin if it would help you.

None of this explains why the book repeatedly refers to the rite as the Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite (like, its written on the top of every second page for a start) and also describes the entire structure of the Northern US Supreme Council and all processes used in Lodges of this Rite in 1884.

That has already been explained on this thread (more than once).

Oh hang on – you just admitted that you’re forbidden to tell people what the rites contain – so I guess the whole story about the laurel wreath and the caps etc is ********
The usual Masonic disinformation nonsense continues.

The only disinformation we’ve seen on this thread has came from you. Any readers of this message are recommended to read the entire thing in order to see the documented lies that keep being spewed by this “Mr. Necros”.

Fiat Lvx.

Can you guys stop snipping at each other please

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Incidentally a big thank you to “Mirthful Me” for his unwitting compliment in referring to me as a “Rough Ashlar.”
Have a read of the 14th Degree – Perfect & Sublime Master Elect to find out what “The Rough Ashlar” actually refers to.

For some one who claims to have been a Master Mason your familiarity of the Degrees and Lectures are sorely lacking. In the First Degree Lecture we are thus informed: "By the Rough Ashlar we are reminded of our rude and imperfect state by nature". Nothing unwittingly done here MrNECROS, I am quite aware to the references I make, and to your inept attempts to discredit and misinform.

ML, we have spoken before via u2u re, a 'cheat card' for the initiation to a Lodge. (U.K.)
I haven't posted it because of your knowledge. It's a jpg of the original, which i have.

To the snippy ones...
"You have to crawl before you can walk"
Sanc'.

Why don't you join and find out for real rather than speculate?

maybe this all stems from him being rejected for membership. Kinda like the
stories of Philip le Bel and the Templars.

Originally posted by sanctum
ML, we have spoken before via u2u re, a 'cheat card' for the initiation to a Lodge. (U.K.)
I haven't posted it because of your knowledge. It's a jpg of the original, which i have.

I remember speaking with you, but I'm not sure what you a mean about a cheat card. Nor do the UK Lodges work in the Scottish Rite; there are three or four clandestine Lodges in the UK that work in Cerneau, but to my knowledge, they are all French-speaking.

Fiat Lvx.

I remember speaking with you, but I'm not sure what you a mean about a cheat card. Nor do the UK Lodges work in the Scottish Rite; there are three or four clandestine Lodges in the UK that work in Cerneau, but to my knowledge, they are all French-speaking.
Fiat Lvx.

MasonicLight,

Cerneauism also exists today in the form of the irregular "Supreme Council of Louisiana" which confers the 1st-33rd Degrees. It's a small group but very active. I have a full set of their rituals and they're pretty impressive. They're quite different in places from Jonathan Blanchard's "Scotch-Rite Masonry, Illustrated." BTW, since this thread had changed to "Cerneauism" If you're interested in such things I'm currently working on a book that is supposed to be printed by Lost Word Books/Anchor Communications (i.e. Mike Poll) that deals with the Cerneau group that sprang up in New York in the 1880's under the direction of William H. Peckham. It's commonly called the Cerneau-Peckham Supreme Council. I'm writing a brief history of the organization (because it was short-lived) and reprinting it's 4th - 32nd Degree Rituals (which contain some "Pike" influence.)

-Senrak

Senrak,

Thanks, I look forward to reading your book. I had no idea that there were still Cerneau bodies active in Louisiana, although I'm of course familiar with Brother Poll's positions on Pike on Cerneau.

Fiat Lvx.

I think by "cheat card" he means the little card that we give to new brethren that has the questions and answers required before he can go on to the next degree.

We give them this because they can't have a ritual book until they've done the Third.

Ah, ok. Here, nothing is allowed to be written, and both the Ritual and Catechism can be communicated only verbally.

Fiat Lvx.