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Demonization of the Truther's Movement by the Lapdog News Media

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posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 12:49 AM
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Originally posted by prepare4it777
reply to post by Taxi-Driver
 


Ohhhh ok I understand. You mean out of control fires like the Windsor Tower that burned a heck of a heck of a heck of a lot longer (18 to 20 times longer then the wtc and at proven hotter temperatures and left the entire steal structure still standing?

www.youtube.com...

Right. Next please:lol



EXACTLY Like the Windsor! Well, the steel parts anyway.

Ya see what they don't tell you is that the bottom 2/3 section and rear-ward core of the Windsor was concrete.Which apparantly is less suseptible to uncontrolled, hot fires.(actually the video you posted says the steel parts failing, and falling was the concrete, it was just the opposite)

See:





Fire and giant airplane holes ripped through these suckers were probably not a real good combo in this particular scenario. And no concrete cores to back it up.






[edit on 30-7-2009 by Taxi-Driver]




posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 02:05 AM
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reply to post by jthomas
 


You live in a bubble and are apparently unable to think outside of it at all. I don't say this as an issue of you being right or wrong, simply that you have so little ability to empathize with others, you really have no idea at all why any of us here question the validity of the official account of what happened on 9/11.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 03:56 AM
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reply to post by Taxi-Driver
 


Please? Are you kidding me? The fire you referred to above burned for hours, and still no failure. You're grasping for straws. And the design was no where near as resilient as the Twin Towers, which only burned for minutes.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 04:28 AM
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reply to post by HothSnake
 


These replies sound like people hanging from a cliff with a muddy ledge just screaming and struggling to hang on.

Really weird. Well what can you say about the last less then 20% of Americans that believe the official story according to the CNN poll. They live in denial


[edit on 30-7-2009 by prepare4it777]



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 06:45 AM
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Originally posted by prepare4it777
reply to post by jthomas
 


Actually with the CNN poll pointing to 84% of the American public in agreement with Charlie Sheen that there is a government cover up of the 9/11 events, that would in essence make the debunkers the actual tin foil hat wearing, denial based minority, and not the other way around.


Facts by polls, eh?

Gosh, why bother with an investigation?



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 06:51 AM
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Originally posted by HothSnake
reply to post by jthomas
 





I am quite capable. But why should I waste my time when it is already on record that you have been firmly debunked and you refuse to acknowledge it? Or when you indicate you are clueless about the subject matter?


Did you even make it past the first page? I knew that you would read the first page of ten and then claim that the debunkers won, but seeing that you are illiterate, then we are all just waisting our time here. They debunked nothing.. They did what you are doing here and called names, while providing nothing but pseudo science delivered up by the government. Clearly, you nor your counterpart are capable of anything but ad hom logical fallacy.


You love engaging in "ad hom logical fallacies" as a matter of course. Gosh.



Oh yeah, that was what the NIST report and the MIT report both claimed.


Then you should be able to point to the statements that "two relatively small Jet fuel fires" caused the collapses of the towers and the towers were "concrete reinforced structures."

But you can't because no one claimed that.

Poor kid.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by prepare4it777
Actually with the CNN poll pointing to 84% of the American public in agreement with Charlie Sheen that there is a government cover up of the 9/11 events, that would in essence make the debunkers the actual tin foil hat wearing, denial based minority, and not the other way around.


On the contrary, I am one of those 84% believing there was a gov't coverup, namely, the concealment of just how badly the gov't was slipping on banana peels during the 9/11 attack and how it missed opportunities to prevent it. Seeing how badly the gov't was slipping on banana peels from simply handing out water bottles to hurricane victims in New Orleans, it's blatantly obvious there's more incompetence behind the 9/11 attack than what was reported, as well. If there was an intelligence memo warning of the attack that was misplaced and sitting underneath a pizza box in someone's office somehere, I'd want to know who that dope was.

Thus, you "inside job" people do NOT represent us 84% of people, and I would appreciate it if you'd stop pretending that you do, thank you very much.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by jthomas

Truthers always get angry when they have to face the fact that denial is denial is denial, no matter what the subject matter is. You all get upset when other forms of denial are mentioned - like Holocaust denial - and immediately protest that "you are getting lumped with Holocaust Deniers" and "we don't deny the Holocaust, you Nazis!!"



A lot of these issues are covered here:

drsanity.blogspot.com...

Of particular importance to the subject of 9/11 Deniers is:

"In history of denial, the philosophy of postmodernism which burst on the human scene about half a century ago, is probably the most recently developed denial strategy. It is usually resorted to when "intellectualization" and "rationalization" fail to convince others that one is "reality-based". It is at that point in the discussion that reality (and truth) are then abandoned with alacrity for the typical rhetorical tactics of postmodernism."

More here:

drsanity.blogspot.com...

drsanity.blogspot.com...

drsanity.blogspot.com...


In short, it illustrates the fact that 9/11 Deniers have convinced virtually no one that their views about 9/11 is correct, and so, must go "all in" in their gamble.

In the end, it's all a psychological problem.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by GoodOlDave
 





On the contrary, I am one of those 84% believing there was a gov't coverup, namely, the concealment of just how badly the gov't was slipping on banana peels during the 9/11 attack and how it missed opportunities to prevent it. Seeing how badly the gov't was slipping on banana peels from simply handing out water bottles to hurricane victims in New Orleans, it's blatantly obvious there's more incompetence behind the 9/11 attack than what was reported, as well. If there was an intelligence memo warning of the attack that was misplaced and sitting underneath a pizza box in someone's office somehere, I'd want to know who that dope was.


I find it highly unlikely that our government is quite that stupid or imcompitent, especially when you find that the supposed comspirators were meeting with government officials days before the attacks, and were recieving money and other resources from them.

I think that it is more of a ruse than anything else, much like a conn game, such as the Nigerian 419 advance fee scam. They pretend to be innocent bumbling idiots, while robbing you blind.

I hear this argument all of the time, and frankly I find it silly. "Our government is just too incompitent to pull something like this off. They can't even handle Social Security." It's much more likely that you are just an easy mark.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by GoodOlDave
 


Actually maybe you should look at the poll before you make remarks like that. The poll was taken in reference to Charlie Sheens questioning of a government cover-up and inside job which is what us truthers have been saying.

You thinking that this memo was lying under pizza boxxes is a joke. I can't remember the guys name but he laughed out loud at the story of the journalist who found an Osama Bin Laden and interviewed him saying he was planning something for the U.S. when military had been searchig for him for years. He laughed at the absurdity of the event and stated that the government was planning something big within 6 months. Then 9/11, 2 months later the guy is shot in his house by the state police after confirming his earlier statements. It has also been proven Osamam met with CIA in the hospital. A million other facts to go along with those few.

Don't try and say truthers don't make up any part of the 84%, if anything we belong there way before deniers like you with your absurd excuses for the government involvement being documents under pizza boxxes. The odds of all the coincidences happening with the military and Norad and everything else that day is about as possible as 5 royal flushes by the same person in a row without cheating.

[edit on 30-7-2009 by prepare4it777]



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by jthomas

Originally posted by prepare4it777
reply to post by jthomas
 


Actually with the CNN poll pointing to 84% of the American public in agreement with Charlie Sheen that there is a government cover up of the 9/11 events, that would in essence make the debunkers the actual tin foil hat wearing, denial based minority, and not the other way around.


Facts by polls, eh?

Gosh, why bother with an investigation?




Denial of scientific evidence, eh?

Gosh, why even bother with posting here?



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 04:16 PM
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reply to post by Joey Canoli
 


You debunkers are a miserable lot, let me tell you. Now it's a psychological problem, eh? The only people that are hopelessly delusional within their denial is the debunker's movement, as indicated by this thread. You deny what your own eyes have seen. You deny everything that your government hasn't told you. Not a single one of you has offered me a single bit of evidence, or even a cogent argument. Instead you offer us nothing but ad hom logical fallacy, such as the above statement by you, which is indicative of a movement desperate and devoid of argument. You keep saying that we are desperate, but your cheap lawyer's tricks, and refusal to answer a simple question, show that you are the ones that are, in fact, desperate.

By using the logic of the above quote, then I guess that you are a Nazi, a Soviet, and a North Korean, since you use their propaganda tactics in order to silence your enemies, i.e., you know that you have nothing with which to defend your arguments, so you resort to logical fallacies and cheap lawyer's tricks in order to conn the public into believing your bantor, while trying to slander your opponents without addressing their arguments... Quite pathetic indeed.


And if you want to know about the psychology of denial, it is this:

The psychosocial dynamic of the human being has developed denial as a defense mechanism against painful truths that are either too horrific or fantastic for it to assimilate. Under certain circumstances, human beings will deny their reality, even in the face of overwhelming evidence. Truly, we see what we want to see, and not necessarily what is actually there. For instance, how many mothers have been unwilling to admit the horrible crimes of their children, despite the evidence that is apparent? How many of your friends seem to be stuck in a Left/Right paradigm that has them voting a certain party line despite the overwhelming evidence that both sides are working for the same financiers? The more terrible or fantastic the nature of reality, the more our conscious minds deny it. Based on our limited experience, we construct our own world view paradigm, which even when clearly incorrect under the particular circumstance, is often defended beyond all reason. We must learn to think outside of our proverbial little box. We must run counter to the misinformed masses that proclaim, "If ignorance is bliss, tis' folly to be wise."

If you hadn't seen it with your own eyes, and if your government didn't brainwash you into believing it, would you even have believed the events of September 11th could have ever taken place? If someone had told you what would happen on that day before it happened, what would your reaction have been? If you answer with anything other than denial, then you're lying. You would've called whatever person suggested it a crazy lunatic, and promptly ignored them. Yet you believe the official story BS, why? There is no other reason other than the fact that your government told you so... anything else and you're lying, period. Once you come to grips with this reality, then everything else falls into place, and your arguments for OS fall apart. You're a stooge fooled by an overzealous government. The fact of the matter is that the events on that day are so fantastical that it defies all commonsense to believe that some dirt poor arabs in caves could have pulled it off all by themselves... Think about it.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by HothSnake
reply to post by Taxi-Driver
 


Please? Are you kidding me? The fire you referred to above burned for hours, and still no failure.


You don't see a massive steel failure in this picture?



The concrete core remained, the steel only portion of the Windsor Madrid failed horribly. And began failing well before the fire was extinguished.

Why can you not realize that the people telling you the tale of the Windsor Tower ( comparing to the WTC) are framing the story to exclude the concrete core?



You're grasping for straws.


Are you saying that NOW you don't like the comparison?


And the design was no where near as resilient as the Twin Towers, which only burned for minutes.


What was the flight number of the 767 that ripped through several floors of the Windsor again? Do you feel that might have done some damage? resiliently-wise?

We can clearly see the effects of large fires on steel structure. And while steel has many advantages, such as weight and pliability, one of the weaknesses is exposure to extreme heat. Therin lies the comparison of the different structures.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by Taxi-Driver
reply to post by Taxi-Driver
 



We can clearly see the effects of large fires on steel structure. And while steel has many advantages, such as weight and pliability, one of the weaknesses is exposure to extreme heat. Therin lies the comparison of the different structures.


Extreme heat

whatreallyhappened.com...

By the way, jet fuel doesn't get as hot as kerosine. Why do furnaces not melt which are made of steel.

The Windsor Tower burned from 18 to 20 hours, and still stood. Nothing you say can take away from that one fact alone.

The WTC was an oxygen starved fire not burning near as hot as the Windsor Tower which the color of the fire has already been proven to be true. How could the Windsor Tower burning for 18X as long at higher temperatures still stand and the WTC burning at lower temperatures for only around an hour not? The melting point of steel is around 2400 F which the fires even at the point of impact when they were hottest never reached, and that is a proven fact.




[edit on 30-7-2009 by prepare4it777]



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 05:42 PM
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reply to post by HothSnake
 


You know in the past we would have a bad guy call in a fire or any number of other things to get our attention elsewhere while they robbed the bank.

That’s what these guys are here doing, there are men that think its ok to have sex with little boys (nambla), something that would be infinitely more disturbing and wrong than 9/11 truth even if 9/11 truth were wrong and just a bunch of crazy people yet I can assure you these so called debunkers are not out there fighting the nambla people, they are here hounding your every move and it seems that in every forum its the same.

Their mission is to waste your time, don’t let them win.
Anyone who was within a mile of ground zero knows there was more to it and while there are hundreds if not thousands on ATS alone that could help with the NYCCAN movement which recently suffered a setback because a corrupt city clerk decided that the law does not matter when it comes to the 9/11 families and first responders.

Ask yourself why would anyone in their right mind knock down an effort spearheaded by the 9/11 families to get some real answers?

Truth does not fear investigation and by the words of Lee Hamilton the 9/11 commission was a failure.

I am of the thought that the hard times are just beginning for this country, she treats those who serve her in good faith and honor like garbage but rewards murder, graft and criminal behavior with a lot of money and power.

Take my advice and prepare for the difficult road ahead, know that many of you did your best and help out with the NYCCAN movement as best you can.

Don’t waste your time with losers on the net; many of them are paid to argue with you, each post you reply with keeps them in business.

If you see that they are not responding to common sense move on.


I thank all of you who day after day try and wake the world to what happened at ground zero.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 06:02 PM
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reply to post by samhouston1886
 


God Bless man, I pass out DVD's to those I know and Pastors who are unaware due to the lack of MSM blackout.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 06:05 PM
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reply to post by Taxi-Driver
 



Even if you ignore everything that has to do with the alleged CD this still stinks to high heaven, I know you have been here for a long time telling these kids they are crazy.

I can tell you that they know in their hearts for many different reasons that something is fishy when it comes to 9/11 when you tell them that they are wrong, crazy of any of the other cute names you debunkers like to use, they don’t get angry, they get sad because they know that the average American who no longer likes to read and has an attention span of less than 15 minutes will swallow what you say as fact.

You should respect the rights of those who are not satisfied with the lies we have been given but you don’t.
Even if there is only one person left affected by this tragedy they should get the truth regardless of how you feel about it.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 06:13 PM
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reply to post by prepare4it777
 


Bless you too, dont give up the fight.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 07:42 PM
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Originally posted by HothSnake

Now it's a psychological problem, eh?



The evidence points that way.

The TM is in the vaaast minority. There is no denying this. But you do.

Virtually no qualified professionals are impressed by your evidence. There is no denying this. But you do.

The press would love to skewer Bush. There is no denying this. But you do.

There is plenty of evidence that backs the OS. There is no denying this. But you do.


And I'm sorry if this rocks your world, but I have some doubts about nuances of the OS. But they don't have any impact on the 19 hijackers > 4 planes > 3 Buildings > fire > buildings fall down.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by jprophet420

Denial of scientific evidence, eh?


We're still waiting for your evidence.

Cat got your tongue?



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