How long have we really been on this planet? Or how many times?

www.hecklerspray.com...

Text Blue

Forgive me if this has already been posted but i searched and couldn't find any reference to this particular story.

I have read most of the books that a guy called "Colin Wilson" has written, very informative and open minded analysis of all things weird and wonderful. This story was mentioned in one of those books so i did a bit of digging and found the site that i have linked above.
A mine in Oklahoma where a solid, immaculately finished concrete wall was unearthed in a coal seam dated to 286 million years ago? And it appears to be completely accepted as something that was actually found, at least judging by the amount of different references to the finding that are out there to be found.
286 million years makes me think that either there is something wrong with our carbon dating processes or we have been here for far longer than we have ever been told or led to believe.
This is my first thread and i do not intend to write reams on the subject, i have posted to find out what others think, or know of this subject (i know that as part of a far larger whole topic, this has been covered to varying degrees).
It definetely does make me wonder whether the Wachowski brothers had seen stories like this one before writing the Matrix.
Also this links in (with so many things) very well with something else i have been studying lately which is the Temple of Karnak in Abodes, Egypt. This is where there are hieroglyphics superbly depicting a helicopter, tank, aeroplane and what looks like Thunderbird Two ( if you guys remember that!!).
I feel like i am rambling on a bit but this information, or just one verifiable find, opens the door to so many questions and hopefully brings us undeniably closer to many solutions and a much, much bigger picture.

286 million years makes me think that either there is something wrong with our carbon dating processes or we have been here for far longer than we have ever been told or led to believe.

Hey, how you doing ?

What do you think about it realy ? I heard they found a cave with some evidence that revealed something cool, but was completely sealed of from the public, I wonder why ? !

I have seen some 'debunk' of the choppers in Karnak, gave me good laugh!

Let me hear more of you thoughts on this !!

There is no doubt in my mind that whether or not the dating is wrong, the evidence suggests a time of high technology in the distant past that even surpassed our own in many ways, its a really stunningly intruiging subject that never fails to amaze me.

Just check out the Klerksdorp spheres, allegedly 2.8 BILLION Years old.
www.forbiddenhistory.info.../26

reply to post by ChemBreather


Hi Chem breather, this sort of thing enthralls me and the reason i havent written a lot about it is because i was half thinking that, with it being my first real thread, it might get taken off or i would be advised that i've done something wrong and look a complete jerk.
I've been reading a lot about a couple of subjects recently, interlinked i believe. The designs at Abodes being the first one which i find linked to the Sanskrit writings which the Chinese found and sent to India to be translated/deciphered.
These Sanskrit "teachings" are said to include instructions on how to build a spaceship of some sort and, consequently, the Chinese are said to be utilising them as part of their space program. (that last sentence makes me self conscious when i type it as it may be a bridge too far).
Abodes is well documented and seeing as there is an almost identical "plaque" somewhere else in Egypt with the same depictions i tend to find it all very convincing.
When i first read of the wall found by miners i think i kind of accepted it and kept skim-reading the page i found it on, not realising the depth of meaning it relates to. It is absolutely huge, immense and probably too big to contemplate initially.
The negative thought i have in relation to this is that the coal seam is said to be around 286 million years old, how is that possible? I have thought about this subject for a great while whilst reading, and after reading, Colin Wilson's book in which it was mentioned. That length of time is unfathomable to me, 286,000,000 years? It goes against everything we have been taught, all that work i did as a 5 year old reading books about dinosaurs, tectonic plates, ice ages, the ascent of man, Darwinism, creationism and so on and so on....
I want to write lots more but i have to be careful as i'm at work.

Originally posted by Outlawstar
There is no doubt in my mind that whether or not the dating is wrong, the evidence suggests a time of high technology in the distant past that even surpassed our own in many ways, its a really stunningly intruiging subject that never fails to amaze me.

Just check out the Klerksdorp spheres, allegedly 2.8 BILLION Years old.
www.forbiddenhistory.info.../26

Swiss watch found in 400-year-old tomb

Archeologists in China are baffled after finding a tiny Swiss watch in a 400-year-old tomb.

So, they found an Swizz watch-ring 400 years old. ?
An axe 1.6 mill. years old ?? so , what happend to millions and millions of years ??

I do not doubt the earth can have been here some billion years, and animals some million years, but I think there is some kind of a barrier around the time of where us homo-drivecars came into play....

But, this might help you understand why things dont add up..
- THE EVOLUTION DECEIT -

In brief, Darwin’s fiasco had started even at the name he gave to his book; although he was supposed to write about the “origin of species”, he had not included even one factual mechanism to explain this “origin.

However during the time of Darwin, nobody noticed the inadequacy of the theory because of the lack of knowledge in biology. In time, as more data were accumulated, the contradictory nature of Darwin’s theory became apparent, yet it was skilfully kept hidden. Moreover, Darwin’s original words were revised. For instance, unaware of the certain genetic distinctions among the species Darwin said that he thought that a branch of the bear species were feeding increasingly on animals living in water and eventually their mouth structure had a larger shape with time; then he stated some of these bears turned out to be whales and he saw no difficulty in realising this.

Despite the contradictory nature of Darwin’s theory, it was widely adopted since it brought a sort of explanation to fill in the big gap of naturalism and secular order in its broader sense. A group of scientists voluntarily took upon themselves to be the promoters of the theory. The most well-known among them was Thomas Huxley, who was called with the nickname of “the bulldog of Darwin”. Thomas Huxley, whose ardent advocacy of Darwinism was the single factor most responsible for its rapid acceptance, attracted the attention of the whole world to evolution by the famous “Oxford discussion” he had with Oxford bishop Samuel Wilberforce in 1860.

Edit for grammar, I could seriously make a book of funny words with all my hasty typo's ..


[edit on 28/7/2009 by ChemBreather]

Great site, and an awesome find...personally I'm not down with the time traveler theory. (what time traveler would bring a vase back? :lol I AM however down with the "Stargate" plotline that had ancients here way back when.

It's highly probable that we've only been here the once and that there haven't been any long ago versions of 'humanity' that somehow reached or surpassed our technology. These conclusions are dependent on the evidence of multiple interconnected areas of science.

We've got fossil evidence of lifeforms all the way back to prokaryotes 3.7 billion years ago. We've got atmospheric changes recorded in sedimentary rock, ice cores etc that show how organic life altered the composition of our air. We've got the evidence of evolution along time periods that can be cross-referenced to climatic conditions and luminescence dating techniques.

We've got a fossil record of humans and our ancestors. Again, this can be referenced to our impacts on environment, wildlife and the traces we leave everywhere we go...soil pits, potsherds, hearths, rock art etc.

Well...some will say that *perhaps, maybe, what if* a flood or cataclysm reduced a great advanced technology and we had to start again.... No evidence! None of the above (soil pits etc) are extant. The mystery advanced race so favored by a few people must have been OCD when it came to be tidy. They've left nothing. For any culture to rise to the point of 'advanced civilization' they'd need to develop agriculture, form into sedentary societies, develop into villages with trade connections to other villages. Then evolve into towns, cities, territories, counties, countries, nations etc. All of these would be connected through trade and migration.

Basically, that's a lot of human activity without any traces. We've found human remains in the Sahara, on top of the Andes, buried beneath Italian ports and dredged from the North Sea. All of them have been dated within the time period we've evolved in. In ice cores, there's clear evidence of the growth in human population...increased pollution in the atmosphere. Roman Empire, Industrial Revolution and the 40s and 50s A-Bomb tests...all recorded. Tree rings are referenced to ice cores and confirm dates, climate and pollution levels...

The 'helicopter glyphs'' in the Abydos Temple aren't technological features of a bronze age civilization. The vast majority of objects claimed on websites and in books (Cremo, Daniken, Sitchin etc etc) are fictional, misidentified or, even worse, misrepresented deliberately. The Kleksdorp Spheres have been proven to be geological in origin for decades, but still the same people drag 'em out to sell seats, tickets, books, dvds etc. Underlying much of it is an ill-fated attempt to throw away the Theory of Evolution and replace it with a creation myth.It sounds absurd, but it's true

reply to post by davedat2


How long have we been here?
DNA and fossil evidence indicates that modern man (homosapians, Latin, "wise man" or "knowing man") originated in East Africa around 200,000 years ago.
I tend to agree with this answer to your first question. Fossil evidence is a world-wide resource and by comparing many variables from all over the world, we can predict the age of many things with surprising accuracy. And by using our DNA and the knowledge we have about how things evolve and how genes work, we can see how old our DNA 'must' be. And surprise surprise, it's around EXACTLY what our fossil evidence tells us.

Or how many times?
As a species, just this once. As a civilisation, evidence is plenty, we are definately NOT the first and maybe not even the most advanced.
Massive tectonic movement can force whole continents thousands of feet below ground. If the continent of, say, Asia was forced thousands of feet below ground, how much evidence of their existence would be left?
No cities, no great wall, no castles, no land. If there is land there, it's Europe. That tectonic plate has moved over asia and forced it undercrust. Not without damage to Europe either, safe to say the earthquake would more than destroy any richter scale.
Plenty of evidence of this type of scenario occuring in the past exists.

However long you feel you've been on this planet. if you feel old and wise, then obviously long enough.. If you feel naive and enthusiastic, you probably have a long way to go... And if we've "reincarnated" so many times, you're still different now as a human than you were as a turtle or whatever, that's probably why you don't remember... Don't worry 'bout these things, about your life, about which life your in, or for how long... Just embrace it and enjoy it while you can!

[edit on 28-7-2009 by Crying-Lightning]

Originally posted by midnightbrigade
Great site, and an awesome find...personally I'm not down with the time traveler theory. (what time traveler would bring a vase back? :lol

I AM however down with the "Stargate" plotline that had ancients here way back when.

In that case, check this !
This isn't about stargates, but it tend to show the Ancients knew about the black hole in the center of the milkyway, and I saw just last night on discovery about the 'monster in the milkyway'.
Looks like all Nasa and these people are doing, is re-discovering old news.

The Cross at Henday , France

What happened when Dr. LaViolette gave his lecture at the second ‘Awakening Gaia’ conference in May 1997 was the final link in the chain of evidence that I had been building slowly. While I had asked Paul to talk about his theories from his book, Beyond the Big Bang, he wanted, instead, to lecture about his new book, Earth Under Fire. I relented to this even though I had never seen his new book. Over the course of the next two and a half hour lecture Dr. LaViolette answered many of the last problems posed by the mystery of the Cross at Hendaye. Using empirical scientific evidence Dr. LaViollete revealed that there was a periodic explosion from the center of the galaxy depositing iridium on the surface of our planet. Showing us ice samples taken from Greenland, he revealed how these iridium deposits fall in 26,000-year layers suggesting that the pulse from the center of the galaxy is somehow linked to the precession of the equinoxes. He showed how the stinger of the constellation Scorpio and the arrow of the constellation Sagittarius were pointing at the center of the galaxy. He unveiled the fact that the vast amount of iridium coming from the explosion of the center of the galaxy would eventually coat the surface of the sun and cause it to explode like a T-Tauri Star.

This fact not only explained Fulcanelli’s enigmatic phrase ‘double cataclysm’ but also explained the angry sun face on the pedestal. I was limp by the time the lecture ended. Jirka and I sprang out of our seats running up to LaViolette asking him questions about alchemy and Fulcanelli. But LaViolette knew little about alchemy and nothing about Fulcanelli.
I now knew that the star on the pedestal of the Cross, which sits behind the sun, was the symbol for the explosion from the center of the galaxy. I also knew that the center of the galaxy is the dark sun of the occult, the dark goddess of mythology and was probably the basis for the myth of Isis, who bore our sun as her son. The mythologies of Egypt, India and Tibet began to make more sense to me also as I placed them in the context of four ages, the precession of the equinoxes and the disaster from the center of the galaxy.

Jirka became so excited about LaViolette’s lecture and the information conveyed that he immediately paid Dr. LaViolette a sum of money and told me to begin writing a documentary based on LaViolette’s book ‘Earth Under Fire’. I would Produce and Direct the film and we would make it available to the world so that everyone would know about this incredible information. Excited, I retired to my mountain house and spent the summer of 1997 writing and rewriting the screenplay for Earth Under Fire.

reply to post by ChemBreather

So, they found an Swizz watch-ring 400 years old. ?

An axe 1.6 mill. years old ?? so , what happend to millions and millions of years ??

I do not doubt the earth can have been here some billion years, and animals some million years, but I think there is some kind of a barrier around the time of where us homo-drivecars came into play.... But, this might help you understand why things dont add up..

- THE EVOLUTION DECEIT -

The Swiss watch turned out to be a hoax IIRC. The 'axe' was a misidentification or a hoax. Pretty much the only references to the Malaysian axe are found on Creationist websites. More interesting are the genuine articles...400 000 year old wooden spears and 500 000 year old stone tools (Kapchurin Formation).

Naturally, creationists (of any religion) don't like the idea behind Evolution...apparently none of the suggested gods created life and then let it evolve. The books are very specific that humans and animals were created as they exist now

Check the provenance of websites and try and guess their agenda. A creationist site will ALWAYS throw in 'anomalies' that a closer inspection reveals don't exist. These people know this already which makes them both liar and deceiver. Tut tut! The site you linked in attempt to criticize and/or undermine Evolution is a typical example...look at the source...Harun Yah ha: An Invitation to the Truth One of their goals is to remove the teaching of Evolution from education and unite Turkey and the Middle East under Islam to isolate Israel and change Europe to Islam...WTF?! I know guys don't read links on ATS, but I at least read up on the ones that I link!

Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by ChemBreather

 

So, they found an Swizz watch-ring 400 years old. ?

An axe 1.6 mill. years old ?? so , what happend to millions and millions of years ??

I do not doubt the earth can have been here some billion years, and animals some million years, but I think there is some kind of a barrier around the time of where us homo-drivecars came into play.... But, this might help you understand why things dont add up..

- THE EVOLUTION DECEIT -

The Swiss watch turned out to be a hoax IIRC. The 'axe' was a misidentification or a hoax. Pretty much the only references to the Malaysian axe are found on Creationist websites. More interesting are the genuine articles...400 000 year old wooden spears and 500 000 year old stone tools (Kapchurin Formation).

Naturally, creationists (of any religion) don't like the idea behind Evolution...apparently none of the suggested gods created life and then let it evolve. The books are very specific that humans and animals were created as they exist now

Check the provenance of websites and try and guess their agenda. A creationist site will ALWAYS throw in 'anomalies' that a closer inspection reveals don't exist. These people know this already which makes them both liar and deceiver. Tut tut! The site you linked in attempt to criticize and/or undermine Evolution is a typical example...look at the source...Harun Yah ha: An Invitation to the Truth One of their goals is to remove the teaching of Evolution from education and unite Turkey and the Middle East under Islam to isolate Israel and change Europe to Islam...WTF?! I know guys don't read links on ATS, but I at least read up on the ones that I link!

I know there are lots of miss info out there, and the evo theory I think is one of them.
I hope it gets out of the schools too, just the words millions of years make me laugh, and typical evo dudes, all that say something or any thing that points away from loving illuminati's work of rediculing christianity by trying to make us feel like garbage and inferior beings, like a filthy monkey, shouldn't be taught in school, unless that is the agenda all along..?

And that cross is in france, there are pictures of it on the site.
And I dont know if you have done as much research on it as he has done..


And what is up with source ? it must have aname , and I dont put much credit to .gov sites, as Govt. are full of lies and criminal activities.

davedat,

I have often wondered the same thing(s) that you do regarding the possible true age of human civilization as well as the possibility of past iterations of the same.

The truth is being hidden from us by TPTB and those 'of knowledge' that don't want to admit that they have been so far off base for all of these years.

The potential is mind-boggling to say the very least. We could potentially be only the latest version of mankind, with one or more previous attempts.

I also have a thread on this subject, for your reference...
above top secret thread

reply to post by ChemBreather
I posted after your Cross link. I don't see how much the Cross is evidence of extra-intelligent ancients? If I only read the English websites, I'd believe it's a mystery indication of Fulcanelli and alchemy. Weidner describes a 'mysterious and unknown alchemist' building the cross. BS. The guy is historically well known...Weidner's research is lame. Check the sources. French cross...read French....

In 1598, Hendaye got to build his own church and separated from that of Urrugne. Permission was granted by Bishop Bertrand of Etchaux:

Hendaye

Regarding ToE, fair enough...believe what you like about it being misinfo or whatever...but I think you misunderstand the definition ToE doesn't ridicule Christianity or any other religion. Maybe some proponents do...but that's like saying all Christians are like GW Bush. Catholicism and Protestantism have accepted the Theory of Evolution a long time back.

I don't like to speculate, but sometimes it is fun. This thread seems to be developing with two distinct ideas.

One is the idea that we have possibly been here more than once, dating a long time back.

The second is the modern proof that we haven't.

What about the possibility that the past inhabitants were not humans? Maybe they weren't originally from Earth at all. I don't know much about this possibility, but the lack of human physical advancement dating to some of the older times seems to point that us, as we know "Us", wasn't there.

Could it be possible that a highly advanced race visited this planet without the need for some of the things that would leave tell-tell reminders of there evolution into technological life? This could tie in great with some of Sitchin's theories of the Annunaki.

[edit on 28-7-2009 by esteay812]

reply to post by esteay812


Esteay, my favourite theory and one that i don't think can be disproved, only discussed.

If i can take a couple of things for granted to enable me to reply in the form i would like to then let us say that there IS a wall more than 2 miles below the earths surface in Oklahoma and "objects" HAVE been found that predate all prior evidence of man's evidential existence on Earth. (more than anything, these are things i want to believe but i always cringe when posters on ATS categorically state that something is not possible, they were still prescribing leeches for all ailments 300 years ago and they thought they knew it all then).
For those of you who find this assumption too incredulous then i suggest an exit stage left would be in order, explain the Dogon Tribe in Africa and their undoubted, complex knowledge of the Sirrius B star. This very well known piece of information cannot be questioned, "we" were aware of their knowledge before "we" were aware that their knowledge was, in fact, true.
I understand your problem though, you just cant order up undeniable proof of that kind at the click of your fingers.Shame.

Too assume these artifacts, or objects exist is to question everything we have ever been taught. Colin Wilson, the author i mentioned in the OP, explains the complexities of attempting to promote a new theory which has anything controversial to say in regards of Egypt and/or Egyptology. Egyptologists are extraordinary creatures who have been studying a version of what they believe to be the truth about their chosen subject for many years. They believe what they have learned to be the absolute, unequivocal truth on all matters Egyptian, it cannot be questioned, nor maligned as "everyone" knows they are learned in all matters relating to, and regarding, Egypt.
But surely, only in so far as we understand the information they have studied to be true?
What if we consider everything, and i mean everything, to be fallible or at least to have the potential for fallibility? We surely have to "cover ourselves" a hell of a lot during even normal conversation then don't we?

Phrases like; "if he is to be believed..."
"if that is true..."
"let us say for the sake of argument that ...." would have to be slotted in to all sentences just so that we are not sued because we said something we wholeheartedly believed to be true at the time.

I hope you are following me here. The point i am trying to make is that we only really know what we are told or taught and if that information comes with a verbal guarantee of authenticity and truth, we still shouldn't lose the ability to question it. It has seeemed to me over recent years that the longer something believed on a widespread basis, the longer it will take to debunk when evidence of it's "groundlessness" comes to light.

Apply this to whatever you want to that you fear to be believed wrongly, religion, governments, space travel, ufos, etc. Maybe i am wrong but wouldn't it make sense that the longer a lie, knowingly or not, is believed for and is perpetuated then the longer it will take for people to see the truth once their eyes are opened and the evidence becomes apparent?
I am pretty sure that when a lie has been in existence for a certain period of time and the amount of people spreading it reaches a certain quantity then that lie grows wings and flies around the world itself, self perpetuating itself and spreading it's wrongful word to anyone who will listen.
How many of us have actually studied egyptology at university?
How many of us have our own opinions about the pyramids, sphinx, Abodes, Egyptians and all things Egyptian?
What percentage of those thoughts coincide and corrrealate?

reply to post by esteay812


Maybe thats because i have posted on ATS and i would hope that visitors to this site have the advantage of open mindedness and higher than average intelligence and so would view a subject through their own eyes, unencumbered by any one outsider's viewpoint or so called "teachings".
Still, there are an awful lot of people out there who will believe whatever they are told by whoever wants to tell them, generally.

My own personal thoughts start somewhere along the lines of Human Beings, as a race, being far more of a "sensitive" people maybe as few as 10,000 years ago. Our minds were our main tools then and were much more attuned to the world we live in, telepathy, remote viewing, astral projection may have been the rule and not the exception. We didnt live mundane lives, we were not at the beckon call of clocks, trains, cars, planes, work schedules and deadlines. We lived natural lives, eating what we caught, (there were not a lot of vegetarians around, so im told) and actually communicating with our fellow humans, not through the medium of keyboards.
I believe we had most, if not all of the abilities we strive for and whose existence we debate today, slowly losing those attributes as our lifestyles changed and we lost the need for "natural" means.
I think there is no knowing how long we have been here for certain although i am definetely not ruling out the possibilities i have mentioned before, something or someone has put us here, on this planet, with the means to feed and clothe ourselves, raise, protect and help ourselves, but also to progress, grow and teach ourselves. Unfortunately we have also always had the ability to harm ourselves and others. We are also sentient and understand right from wrong but seem to be being controlled, whether it is from places like the White House or led by visitors to this planet.

This world seems to be perfect, perfectly aligned and balanced. Right and wrong, good and bad, ying and yang, whatever you want to call it, it is here and all in proportion. Somebody helped us get this far because we are pretty useless ourselves. Thats not to say we couldnt have gotten this far, just that someone always seems to screw up the good intentions of another in this world.
Maybe we have had numerous attempts to progress and get it right, maybe we have been unlucky in the past, maybe we cant "win" and the cards are stacked against us. Is it possible that we are some gigantic science experiment and are being studied and seen as a source of amusement?

Whatever reason we have for being here none of us can be absolutely sure about many things and why would we want to be when there are so many possibilities out there, each with a multitude of questions waiting to be asked and answered?

reply to post by davedat2


How long have we really been on this planet? Or how many times?

According to certain old scriptures, this is the FIFTH civilization of man on this planet. Since every time the older civilization ends there is a cataclysm that wipes the slate clean there is nothing to be found save for odd enigmas in coal or other places like the scalpels found in a 5000 year old grave...

Me personally... this is my eight incarnation on Earth... I am told that I have one more to go before I can move off this rock and go 'out there'

Can I prove it? Not likely online but you just asked the question. On the civilization I do have evidence I will present some time soon...

There is a buried city in the Himalyas, the city is mostly under a glacier but it is that city that gave life to the legend of Shangri La. If I recall it is from the third civilization, but will have to check

Atlantis was the previous one. You will not find Atlantis in one spot as it was scattered over many spots, just like our modern world is today

However this is the first time there have been so many people. In the past they were wiser and kept that under control...

But in the end what does it matter? They are all gone with barely a trace other than some out of place artifacts and legends...

One day we too will follow that path into obscurity... all it would take is another ice age to scour the land, another asteroid like the one they think took out the Dinos, another flood like the religious people claim, another cataclysm that created the Himalayan mountains and pushed that ancient city high above sea level

And all our accomplishments, all our art, all our history... will become nothing but legend for the next time...

Maybe if we can get a colony off world this time we might survive...

But then that too 'may' have happened before The 'ark' may in deed have been a spaceship...


Sumerians believed that the universe consisted of a flat disk enclosed by a tin dome. The Sumerian afterlife involved a descent into a gloomy netherworld to spend eternity in a wretched existence as a Gidim (ghost).


Noah's Ark The Star Lost...







[edit on 29-7-2009 by zorgon]

reply to post by zorgon


not to sound sycophantic but i feel graced to have a contribution on my first thread from you, Zorgon. It feels like the more posts the thread receives the more substantial and vindicated my original thought is.

Certain elements of what you have written ring true in relation to other topics and subjects i have read about on ATS.

thanks for the comments all of you have posted so far, they have led to me having my second "eureka" moment but that will have to be researched properly before i start the notoriously difficult "second thread".

Well use some of what I said as search on google...

I need sleep now





[edit on 29-7-2009 by zorgon]