The God Who Wasn't There.

I just finished watching a documentary I came across using the program stumble upon, its titled "The God Who Wasn't There" and its written, directed and filmed by Brian Flemming

This movie's theme is Jesus, well the debunking of Jesus to be specific.
I am not a Christian so this didn't offend me, however if you are Christian, view with caution.

No one likes having there beliefs scrutinized, so please only watch if you are open to the idea that Jesus may not have been, otherwise you may get upset, and that is not my intention with this thread.

For the rest of us agnostic/atheist folks get ready to be stimulated, this documentary touches on some date issues I never knew of before, and reiterates some other well known (if you into studying Christianity) but still important facts.

This video can be viewed in yahoo video in three parts which I will list at the bottom of this post, however the yahoo version has a very annoying website watermark you have to look threw the entire time.

I used a torrent to download a higher quality version, so if your into that, I would say its your best bet.

Here are the links to -The God Who Wasn't There. On yahoo video.
Part 1.
Part 2.
Part 3.

I look forward to reading everyone's feedback.


[edit on 7/27/2009 by Alaskan Man]

If Jesus was real or not isn't even something that matters. It's the understandings he gives and shows - real or not, that was important and the point.

Why is it always things like this, or what people of religion do that are pointed out and debated as "wrong" rather than the understandings and teachings themselves? Can't touch the message, so we shoot the messenger? Isn't that what they do to him?

reply to post by badmedia


You can watch the video and the author will give you his reason.


[edit on 7/27/2009 by Alaskan Man]

reply to post by Alaskan Man


I bow before you, the wonderful film..lol.. I have seen this before. While they do state somethings, that i do not know the answer to, I also know they don't know the answer either..lol.. So its just circles that go nowhere, but to start a trapdoor argument that will get nowhere, but cause more division between people. Don't get me wrong its good up toa few points, but some of their facts were wrong and I think I caught a lie one time. But I am not sure if that was intential or just bad evidence. Anyway, it was fun the first time I saw it, if you would like I would go through the video and post what I saw wrong with it. But its going to take a few days I am sure.

reply to post by TheMythLives


Thanks for the reply.

Yes its far from perfect, however there are several good points made.

I am not sure what lies you caught, but you should re watch it, write them down and then point them out here. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if you knew more on the subject then I, so your feedback on the matter is more then welcome.

I agree with you that this documentary isn't perfect and can just start the same arguments we've heard in the past..... but it is interesting.

Originally posted by Alaskan Man
reply to post by badmedia

 

You can watch the video and the author will give you his reason.

I'll watch it later when I have more time. I'll post some responses since I know the father, and know he is "there"(yes, I realize it sounds crazy to you, and don't expect less than that).

But people look for god and evidence of god "out there", and they are never going to find it, because you are supposed to look inside yourself to find him(hint: you are god in the limited son perspective required for this experience we call life).

reply to post by Alaskan Man


Of course their are good points made..lol.. All of them have good points, but I will go back and watch it and write the lies or inaccuracies down for you and whoever is interested. I love this stuff, especially when I get stumped..lol..

For starters, I appreciate the disclaimer. Whether it was the intent, or not, given the nature of your thread, it seems respectful towards people that believe in Christ. I'm glad you chose to approach it that way, instead of bashing right off the bat.

I'm not to the point yet where I am comfortable questioning all of my beliefs. I know that's shallow of me, but it's my road to hoe, no one else's. I'm making progress thanks to folks like you who will present something to think about, and when I get the courage up, dig a little deeper into.

If I've learned anything since coming here, it's that if I believe something, I should be prepared to really look at it and ask myself why. I'll refer back to this thread when I'm ready to face that portion of my beliefs and I thank you for making it available.

I have watched the first 2 videos and have found absolutely nothing new. I am an ex christian and from my view point this is for beginners who are searching for the truth. That said, perhaps something good will come of this for some.

Originally posted by badmedia


I'll watch it later when I have more time. I'll post some responses since I know the father, and know he is "there"(yes, I realize it sounds crazy to you, and don't expect less than that)

i absolutely do NOT think your crazy, i respect your opinion and don't deny your relationship with whomever.

i have lived long enough to know that i will be 100% sure of something at sometime in my life, to only years later learn that i am 100% wrong. nothing in the universe is set in stone in my opinion.

Your not crazy, you've just had different experiences then me, which leads you to live a different life then me, ending up with your opinions being different then my own, and i have no problem excepting that.

Alright here we go.

Part 1

He states at the beginning, not even 2 minutes in..lol.. That christianity was wrong about the solar system. That is inaccurate, infact the bible stated that:

17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

There is a clue as to what the earth is shaped like:

"And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day."

There was evening and there was morning. Say what? You don't see it? I will show you:

If the author wanted to convey a flat earth then why not just state:

"And there was evening and THEN there was morning. He makes an effort to show that when their is evening there is ALSO morning.

Of course this does not prove that the earth rotated around the sun or that the sun rotated around the earth. But, just because the Christians in Gallileo's time believed that the earth was the one that sat still, we must remember that everyone thought that way..lol.. And just because it was like that does not mean that the "truth" that the earth rotates around the sun was false and that in no way states the bible is wrong. Did I make that clear? If not please feel free to ask..lol.. I hope I made it clear enough.

And then he stated this lie: Charles Manson as a christian..lol.. thats ridiculous manson broke every commandent how was he a christian? Same thing with Pat. And that Dena one was inaccurate as well, she had or has a mental illness, she said God told her to do it so she wouldn't go to jail for much longer and try to get a plea of mental health. A lot of criminals do this as well. And I'm not sure about the howling in the fires of hell, I've never read the book, if their radicals it would not surprise me if they said that..lol... some of them are not all their.

And he's asking these people such a vague question, "Do you know how Christianity spread?" Thats like asking do you know what you were doing before you were born?" I mean we weren't around then..lol..

But if we must know his apostles, helped to spread the word, but thats the only hint I am giving.

And that Paul works doesn't make sense. Because Paul was a committed Jew, he would have been in Jerusalem during the Passover as Jesus would have been. Thus, there is a good possibility that both Jesus and Paul were in Jerusalem at the same time and that Paul even heard Jesus teach. So its very possible Paul met him and even talked to him. Saying that their was no way he knew him is a lie and lack of research.

“He never quotes anything that Jesus is supposed to have said.”

All of his statements like this is are easily debunked. For instance: In 1 Cor 11:24, Paul writes of Jesus that:

“when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” Paul is obviously aware of the Jesus tradition known by the Evangelists (Mark 14:22; Matt 26:26; Luke 22:19). As noted above, there are also a number of passages where Paul shows he is familiar with the sayings of Jesus (1 Cor 7:10; 9:14; 11:1, 2, 20-25; 2 Cor 5:16). Paul is familiar with Pilate and John the Baptist in his speech in Acts 13:25, 28.

Paul new Jesus was a human, because Paul probably met him. And alot of leaders do talk about the early days, its hard finding the ones that actually know what they are talking about..lol..

I will do part 2 and 3 tomorrow.

Originally posted by liveandlearn
I have watched the first 2 videos and have found absolutely nothing new. I am an ex christian and from my view point this is for beginners who are searching for the truth. That said, perhaps something good will come of this for some.

Sorry there was no new info for you, but hey think of it this way, you must be pretty well versed on the subject to be disappointed.

like i said above, there is a lot of information i was already aware of, but there are a few nuggets i had over looked before i found quite interesting, and the presentation is nice.

The quality of the yahoo video is lacking to say the least, i watched the dvd equivalent version, so its seemed well made to me, however i cant help but think it must seem poorly made watching it in the crappy quality it was uploaded in (to yahoo) and i fear people will form opinions on its quality based on that (whoever uploaded used low video and audio quality)

reply to post by KSPigpen


thanks, the disclaimer is meant out of respect.

glad you are enjoyed the vid, and i appreciate your comments.

reply to post by Alaskan Man


Hey Alaskan Man

Just so you know this is absolutely not a criticism of your post. I have just been around this too long and struggled hard for answers.

reply to post by TheMythLives


haha tomorrow is always a day away! thanks for the rebuttal, i have to say IMO some of that is bias interpretation (reefing specifically to your day/night comment) givin the fact that church denied those facts for over a thousand years.

But you always put a lot of thought into your post and this one was a good one so i am giving you a

edited spelling error.

[edit on 7/27/2009 by Alaskan Man]

reply to post by Alaskan Man


Well I woulda thought I was crazy before I had my experience. In fact, I thought I was going crazy for awhile. But I like your response, humble and honest and nothing perverse in it.

I am not a Christian or a fan of Christianity in general. I am a fan of Jesus and I know he speaks truth and I know the source of that truth. But I think Paul is a fake(false prophet, 2nd shepherd that is warned of), so I'm a bit anxious to watch the movie now based on the responses.

[edit on 27-7-2009 by make.changes]

Ok, finished part 1.

The stuff about the earth and sun is just church doctrine. The genesis story is a logical generalization, not exact science.

The entire story of Jesus doesn't mention anything of important about his life. It's about like summing up the matrix as neo wakes up, goes into another world, fights machines and wins. In doing so, it leaves out all the important things.

Jesus or whoever wrote the story was gnostic. That knowledge is there for anyone who seeks it. It is from that seeking that the teachings and understandings spread. Never once was "Jesus" or any such things present with the father, nor were they mentioned ever. Quite the opposite. I was shown that the understandings and such are important, not the messengers/idols. And those who worship "Jesus" are just blind sheep. Being "born again" is not a title, or something you get from a church. It's an actual experience one has.

I gained all my knowledge separate of the bible, but I was amazed when I read Jesus after that experience. He says things that are very deep and true, but one can not really understand what he was saying without being born again.

Paul is a false prophet that forms the religion of Christianity. The reason it never talks about Jesus forming a ministry or such is because he taught the exact opposite. He said to not make yourself into authority figures, and that is one reason I know Paul is false.

Btw, I didn't see it mentioned, but Paul explains his experience in 3 different ways, and each of them are 100% false, as per the bible. Unless he gets the "moses exception", which he does not fit at all.

Numbers 12

6And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

7My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.

All Christians really know is John 3:16, which is what they all quoted. They do not understand at all. They are poor in spirit. But they are not a reflection of Jesus.

Christianity is the "anti-christ" religion. It is in his name, it gained power through Pauls political appeals to authority(against Jesus teachings), it then becomes the authority, and proceeds to kill and torture all those who do not go along. The Christian Church fulfills all the prophecies, and Christians do not even realize it. Those with true understanding are those who actually follow, and they have been and still are persecuted throughout history, not the ones who do such things.

On too part 2.

this is ridiculoius anyone that knew the scriptures could answer any of these question. day and night one side of the earth is day the other side in night. god would have been able to see both. modern day church said the earth is flat, not jesus or the apostles. plus as far as im aware genisis is jewish as far as im aware so by calling christianity a lie you are also calling judaism a lie. jesus was a jew so were the apostles. christianity never should have broken off from judaism to begin with the jews should have believed that he was the messiah. if they had you wouldnt be seeing christianity now would you? but dont misunderstand me jesus died for all of us. and the foundation of christianity is the fact that he died for all of us. so basically all christianit is basically judaism. all of the books in the bible are from jews who were writing the scriptures about the messiah long before he was born as human. so this would have to be a conspiracy long before jesus and we all know that, that did not happen. so you and these movies are from anything legitimate. and

p.s. jesus was not god so that was a horrible name for the movie, hahaha

I tend to look at things like this, overall...


there's something that everyone is essentially trying to find. A center point. This center point can be considered "god", "the source", "nirvana", "total knowledge", WHATEVER you wish to call it... it's at the core of what all of us seek.

it is, in essence, what could be considered "god".


You can look at this all as being a big wheel. That center point that I spoke about is the center of the wheel, the hub. Each possible pathway is a spoke on the wheel. Each of us is on one of those spokes.


Some people find christianity is the spoke for them. Some people islam. Some buddhism, hinduism, tao, science, flying spaghetti monster...

Whatever your own path is, it's what is right for you, and you're on it for a reason.

That does NOT mean that someone else's path is incorrect. They're just on a different spoke than you are. That doesn't make you superior to them... All things are leading to the same place. No spoke is stronger than the other, to be that way, the wheel would be out of balance and we all fall down.



But... in the end... we're all looking for that center. It's all maya, illusion.


It's when people take that illusion seriously that we get into the most trouble


Your path can change at any time, just by turning your head, and seeing the "shinies" on the other side



This video, I guess, could be considered a "shiny!". And just like all things in this illusion we're in, some things will appear absolutely real to some, and totally transparent to others.

That doesn't make the ride any less fun Just means each of us are in a different car on the ride hehe