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CALLING ALL MILITARY! Former and current!

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posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 09:44 AM
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reply to post by cbianchi513
 


That is awesome to hear that you took that step to do that, like always, watch your six.

Yeah, I understand completely where you are coming from, and I can only hope that some other ATS'ers understand that this is not just a definition between the black and white print of the local or even national newspapers, but the lies between the lines where the social structure of our nation is in danger, not because of our citizens raising up in arms, but by the citizens who are legal and law-abiding, gun-toting, Contitutionally aware, who are being set up as the collective "Oswald" of acting our in aggression against their Government.

This is actually kind of silly, if you think about it, that the entire citizenry may in actuality have its Government utilize the template of Oswald as a means to set the entire country up as the patsy that convicts itself.

So, if enough events can happen one after another, then enough tragedies will happen that events will set into motion and a state of "National Emergency" laws will be declared and then Martial Law can be enacted and then citizens who are really and truly in the know of their rights, will be lawfully taken away, because the people behind the scenes walked them right into a trap.

I'm not sure about you, but I for one, know that F.E.M.A. itself, is a civilian equivalency of a military organization, which for those uninformed ATS'ers out there means, that it is a military style organization, acting in a civilian relief capacity in a time of emergency.

So, if an event were to happen, based upon the scenario of emergency and "National Disaster" that laws can be squeaked and eeked to change in their meanings because of the relief effort it takes in order to protect those innocent civilians and citizens caught in the "crossfire" of a "war" in the essence of what a disaster is, because for anyone who has lived through a hurricane, and I have since I live in Florida and I've been through everyone since 1979, it looks just like a war zone. The difference is that instead of bullets and bomb craters you have tree limbs and phone lines.

This is where the regular law and "emergency law" has a subtle shade of gray in that people do not understand that the American President can declare a state of emergency or even a "National Disaster", and out comes F.E.M.A. to the rescue, but to rescue people, you have to first protect them from themselves first, according to the doctrine of emergency law.

Think of it if you will, of a drowning victim, you cannot just jump in and save that victim, because if they panic they can drown you in the process, you have to get behind them and grab them, disarming them for safety purposes of both you and that victim.

It is the same exact way, just defined by various laws into a larger context of a mass group of citizens who are dazed and confused, and not one man or woman drowning, but a large collective group "drowning" via the means of having their houses blown away, roads flooded, and power lines down.

I may talk about violence occasionally, but I know better, it takes a path of least resistance in order to effect that change via the means of using your brain in order to bypass the people bypassing the laws.

Using your brain is the only tool or weapon, that no one can disarm you from, at least not if you're smart and use it properly.

A gun is only a tool, and by itself, cannot kill someone, that trigger has to be pulled in order to release the bullet sitting lodged in the chamber waiting to be fired.

[edit on 31-7-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]




posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 11:27 AM
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I agree whole heartedly with standing up for any order that you feel is not correct or disagree with. As former Military person I am truely insulted on a regular basis by people who would rather spit on me then pick up a weapon and stand beside me to defend the country and rights that they now try to use against me. It is people like them that are uninformed and speading lies about things they now little to nothing about that make other uninformed people stand against us. Regardsless of rank/class or branch of the Military, you as a soldier do have the right to stand against ANY ORDER YOU FEEL IS A DIRECT VIOLATION OF WELL BEING!! You would think that the people spreading these lies would understand that since it is even evident in most Military movies which is probably where they are getting most of their information from anyway!



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 07:01 PM
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I'm sorry to say I think they would obey their commands because I don't think most people view other people as 'their' people hence why the world is full of corruption & sorrow.
I know myself I have no sense of connection with a stranger in the street. I don't see them as 'one of my own'

Here in lies the problem because discussing conspiracy of the gangs (government nations) of the world as a people on this forum for instance - puts us in a gang (group) therefore creates a connection we feel with each other but it's an illusion because we don't really know each other, we don't really care for each other & the saddest fact of all is that this is just our nature.

I could never be a part of the military or police for one simple reason that I'd never abide being told what to do.

Remember for those that are this can't pose a problem. Fire on order, think about it later...perhaps.



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 09:41 PM
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I always was a rogue "troop". As anyone who has been in the military can attest, there is far too much B.S. spread around and perpetuated upon the "men" by those in charge. Especially by the top brass! What I finally had enough of, was the lying, covering up, deceit, cheating of those who were supposed to lead by example. It is in every branch. I know!
I was a crew member aboard a Lt. Generals personal aircraft. I wore a NATO patch on my uniform. I answered only to him, and not Air Force subordinates.
He was the Commander of all Pacific Air Forces at the time...
My eyes were opened to what in hell goes on believe me. It sickened me!

You shut your mouth, and gut it out. You look the other way, lest you be swept up into something you ought not be...like dope, and gold smuggling!
You ignore the whole evil corrupt can of snakes...for that was the only way to survive.

You say nothing about the misappropriation of funds, and do not report waste, fraud and abuse . It could cost you your stripes, and your career.
I was a "Good Guy", because I didn't rock the boat, and didn't name names when the I.G.'s came snooping around. I saw things circled filed and set fire to, as incriminating DD forms burnt from an errant cigarette butt...
I watched as trucks got loaded, and the cargo of "contraband" moved around from hangar to hangar playing a shell game...
I watched as Black C-130's flew in at night, taxied out to the end of the runway, and unloaded bales of "straw" into awaiting step vans, that exited the base via unauthorized exit gates on the perimeter...
I saw cases of Zippo lighters that had sold gold cases made in Taiwan, be loaded up on C147's and sent to the states...
I was aware of huge cargos that were all top flight electronics, that were on the bills of laden as troop equipment and supplies. I saw duffel bags of cash!
It goes on and on. I just looked the other way...and said nothing!
So I was promoted, and rewarded along the way. Hoo Rah!

When I finally decided to jump ship, and go another way...I was asked if I would say anything? Of course I said no! I got my letters of Commendations, and reward points. Hoo Rah!

You guys know the name of this tune...especially if you've been there.
We all "Suck up the gravy" if it benefits us somehow...

The Politicians know of it as well, and are a part of it. Junkets are nothing more than extravagant shopping sprees on the government dime. The whole system stinks to the rafters. I am glad I got out, and never brag about my years serving this nation. Who cares?

Four honorable discharges...have the combined worth of toilet paper. HooRah!

Tell the "New National Service Initiative" to shove it where the sun doesn't shine! Don't waste your time, talent, or life. It isn't worth it!

Create, and run your own business. Keep the money and run! Screw `em.

Because that's what they're going to do to you if you let them! Hoo Rah!!!



posted on Aug, 1 2009 @ 09:13 AM
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reply to post by ManBehindTheMask
 


I Am Going To A Naval Bootcamp August 17th 2009 And All I Know Is The United States Military Was Created To Serve And Protect The American People From All Of Their Foreign Enemies . If We Are Givin An Order That In Sum Way Will Hurt Inocent Americans It Is Our RESPONSIBLITY To Refuse That Order And Report That Person To The Proper Authorities For Giving Such An Order .

At The End Of WW2 , The Nazi Officers That Murderd Holocaust Victums Were Put On Trial , Their Response To These Murders Were " I Was Just Following Orders " You Know What They Got ? THE DEATH SENTENCE .



posted on Aug, 1 2009 @ 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by ProudDominicanAmerican
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

At The End Of WW2 , The Nazi Officers That Murderd Holocaust Victums Were Put On Trial , Their Response To These Murders Were " I Was Just Following Orders " You Know What They Got ? THE DEATH SENTENCE .


Correct... The "Nuremberg syndrome"... All it is, in essence, is an excuse. There is NO acceptable reason to "just follow" an illegal or immoral order.

Active duty members "on the fence" would do well to pay appropriate mind to history. (Why do I find myself continually repeating myself when it comes to history?)

Those that "just follow orders" will get their just desserts, when the smoke clears. They, and their masters will pay for their treachery with their lives, and undoubtably their souls.

What rational, thinking person would want to take that gamble?

I know I can't think of any...



posted on Aug, 1 2009 @ 05:42 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 


Despite the fact I am laughing at your post I am a French Canadian American and my family goes back to France in the second century.

But I am glad I am an American.


We also need to look at the fact that like Silent Weapons, Quiet Wars, much is done in these think tanks where they sit around conjuring up scenarios, so they are probably already figuring everyone of our possible reactions.

I think we should do something they don't suspect and can't stop.

Yeh, no I got nothing, but I do have lots of ideas. Sadly I think our military will believe they are doing what is good for us all and will be lied to, just like iraq, and will be told their families will be spared or harmed if they do not follow orders.
I also think that armed military with no American ties will be most likely and they will have no concern or compassion and no desire to protect freedom.

But, maybe they will all be french and then we can just have some fabulous food, wine and maybe a love fest.



posted on Aug, 1 2009 @ 07:33 PM
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I am tired of the Rotten Nazi Syndrome being used to blame them all.

The Nazi guards at any prison camp, were assigned there, by high command. The German soldier didn't have a choice in the matter. He was given orders, and expected to follow those orders without thinking about it. He didn't have the option of discussing it with his superiors. There wasn't any bargaining about what you did or didn't want to do!

The German military during WW2, was strict and didn't give quarter to wimps.
An infantryman who didn't fight, or follow orders, would be shot by his superior, and made an example of. All German soldiers knew this. There wasn't any doubt in anyone's mind, as to whether or not he had to do as he was told.

All German military men back then were like any other soldier from any nation at war. They wanted to survive it, and be able to go home to their loved ones some day. They wrote letters home to their sweethearts, and parents. They had to be very careful about what they wrote, lest it be read by the censors in Germany. So they were wary of saying too much about anything.

The idea of running off, and deserting your post or duty, was not an option. German men were raised to honor their country, and to honor their family as well. To be a traitor, or deserter, meant death if caught. It would also dishonor your family. The shame put upon the family by the towns people would just about kill the family as well.
Germans were nationalistic. They choose and voted for Adolf Hitler as their Chancellor. His promises of a new era, and new beginning for the German people, was what they wanted to hear. After their defeat in WW1, and the treaties imposed upon them, plus the costs to the nation for reparations to everyone else, and the redrawing of the map, where they lost precious land,
Hitler was their man to turn things around. The ultimate solution was not in that game plan. Hitler wanted the undesirables and non pure German out. He saw them as a cancer eating away at the soul of the German Nation. Since most shop keepers, and bankers were Jews from all over Europe that settled in Germany, they also had a throat hold on the German Economy. It was for this reason, that Hitler incited the German people to push the Jew out.
These Jewish refugees were offered to many other nations, if they wanted to save them, and allow them to live in their country. Nearly everyone turned them away. Even the USA, sent a ship full of Jewish Immigrants from Germany back to Germany, because we didn't want them either. The Washington DC officials knew well, it probably meant their deaths. It did!
The Jew was despised, and not highly thought of in general during the 20th century. This was the reason why they were sent to the camps. To get them out of the way, and to use them as forced labor. ( earn their keep )
Genocide was not the idea behind the camps. It came to that, after there were to many to deal with, for the cost to Germany was to high during the war. No one wanted them, and the German Third Reich didn't want them either. Unfortunately, it sealed their fates.
The soldier guarding the prisoners, was doing his job. I am sure many hated it, but, it was that, or be sent to the Russian front, if he protested...or be shot!
Yes, there are stories of monstrosities being perpetuated against the helpless prisoners...just like at Gitmo. There are always rogues and abusers. Some normally good men became monsters themselves, because of a situation they couldn't mentally handle.
So, when a soldier tells you ; "I was just doing my job!" you can be fairly sure, that is what he was doing. Nothing more, nothing less! They don't stand there thinking to themselves; "Now, how can I get out of this, and get a better position?"
When you are sworn in as a soldier, you are owned! You no longer belong to your family, or even yourself. You are trained, fed, clothed, armed, and sent to a duty station. You are expected to obey your orders.
Stop blaming them for it



[edit on 1-8-2009 by Confused and Dazed!]



posted on Aug, 1 2009 @ 07:41 PM
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reply to post by ManBehindTheMask
 


Of course,

the globalists will be making certain that all such who respond the 'wrong' way

are on the 'first wave' extermination lists.

Nevertheless, this is an issue I'm keenly interested in. I suspect many will feel like . . . toward the watchers and respond anyway.



posted on Aug, 1 2009 @ 08:10 PM
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As a former member of the military, I would just like to say that I have never carried out an order that I disagreed with. That did get me in trouble from time to time, however.



posted on Aug, 1 2009 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by Confused and Dazed!
 


So, to paraphrase a key part of what you said...

Hitler promised "CHANGE" too?

Just checking... Soetoro reference intentional.

Carry on.



posted on Aug, 1 2009 @ 09:51 PM
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reply to post by spiritwomyn
 


My son's wife is French, and while she gets irritated with me at times, she too, can have a bit of a laugh.

These guys in these think tanks are certainly smart. They can calculate tonnage, cartridges, historical averages for anything you wish to anticipate, and they can plan things with fancy words and lies that would make Machiavelli hold his head in shame.

But, once they get out of the comfortable office, where the girls provide the bottled water and coffee, outside the environmentally controlled temperature, outside the narrow spectrum of what they are comfortable with and familiar with, they are worse than useless.

In any other time in world history, the ones doing the current ruling would be either prey, or wiping the asses of the warrior class.

While intelligent, they aren't all that canny.

Give me a knowing, canny man any day over a thousand who are intelligent snobs, who in the field, are as useful as henschitt on a pump handle.



posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 03:07 AM
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No, it's an illegal order. The UCMJ requires me to follow all lawful orders by the officers appointed over me.



posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 10:09 AM
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I am extremely happy that you posted this.

I am a cold war veteran of the US Armed Forces. Like my family and many friends with and before me, we stood up to guard our Republic from Tyranny both outside and inside. I would gladly give up my life in defense of the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights, to secure the dream our founding fathers brought into reality for our people, so that my children and grand children would remain FREE and know what FREEDOM is.

It is unfortunate, that in the early 1990's, the US Military began to transform itself away from protecting and guarding the Republic to becoming and betrayer of the People. They starting giving new recruits a "questionaire" to see if they would "turn against the people" if ordered to. I was appalled at the questionaire when I read it. I know that there is a percentage of our military that will turn against its own people if ordered to do so. The US Military has gone to great lengths to do away with those who would not. It is also noticed that those elected to serve the public trust do not serve the public trust, they serve themselves as power mongers and betrayers of the Republic and its founding principles. They too must ultimately be cleansed from our midst in order to free the Republic from Tyranny.

As I see it, as the world begins to turn into place of ultra evil and hatred against the Republic remains steadfast, I can see revolution coming. We are going to have to remind our brothers and sisters serving in today's military that those in power over them are not their masters, but are their deceivers. They will have to liberate us from them ultimately if we are to remain a Constitutional Republic or succumb to the ultra evil power having influence over the world.

I will stand with my fellow veterans against this tyranny and if it means that our blood be shed in defense of the values we believe in, then so be it. Just remember that blood will be shed on both sides. Our side will ultimately win.

[edit on 8/2/2009 by Evisscerator]

[edit on 8/2/2009 by Evisscerator]



posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 10:28 AM
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The Unfortunate Truth Is That History Repeats Itself And Somewhere In The World There Will Be A Crazy Lunatic In The Military That Will Do Some Crazy # And Kill Thousands Of Innocent People And Drag This Country To War ( If That Person Isnt In The American Military ) . It Could Happen Tomorow , It Could Happen 30 Decades From Now .



posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by ManBehindTheMask
 


ManBehindThe Mask said:




Would you willingly round up people say, who wouldnt take a flu vaccine, and assist local police in arresting said people? If the people rose up against the government, would you stand beside us and help us restore our freedoms? The freedoms we were sworn to protect when we took our oath? Or would you help the government quell the uprising?


Wow, great question. I am former military (US ARMY).

Question 1 - Would I round up people that would not take a flu vaccine?

Answer to question 1 - No, I would hope not. I feel that everyone has a right to make the decision to take any vaccine. However, I am sure that the military would be confronted with the fact that there would more than likely need to be some people quarantined. So, are those the ones we are talking about? How would one decipher who needed the vaccine and who did not? Would one have to take the word of the government?

Question 2 - Would I assist the local police in a round up?

Answer to question 2 - This goes back to the last question. Why would the police need the help of the military? Would this be under martial law? I think this would all depend on the situation at hand.

Question 3 - If the people rose up against the government, would you stand beside us and help us restore our freedoms?

Answer to question 3 - Wow....great question. Al these questions are going to depend on the situation. What if some sect or group that claimed to have the peoples best interest at heart, rose up against the government. If they were totally screwed up, would I be obligated as a soldier to help them rise up against the government if most of their values and beliefs were okay, but there were a key few that were really screwed up? What if the uprising need "quelling"....

I guess all of these questions would all depend on the particular situation that we all find ourselves in. I am a veteran of this country, and I swore to defend it against all enemies....foreign and domestic. I am pro military, and I would hope that all service men and women would have a mind of their own to discern between the hype and what is right.



[edit on 2-8-2009 by desertdreamer]



posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 03:51 PM
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Being former military (20+ years) I have a definite idea of how I think we would respond.

We are charged with guarding the country against all enemies "foreign and domestic". The doesn't mean the countries population. That means crazy people forming plans against the United States.

If it came down to major civil war/unrest/government falls situation I believe our military leaders (Chief of Staff and above) would default to a peace keeping function until the government could be reformed into something more functional.

Think about it, people like me that devote 20 plus years of their life to this country would turn on the people we have served all those years for? And about military being unintelligent drones? We are pushed to get education ALL though our career, I finished 2 college degrees while in the service.

I think the average (not all) military individual is person that loves his/her country and is willing to serve that country (i.e. people)

One poster said he saw corruption widespread in the military. I have seen the opposite, there is some corruption but the fairly honest number of soldiers outweighs the corrupt.

I have asbestos underwear on so if you feel the need to flame me, well go ahead.

mfse650





[edit on 2-8-2009 by mfse650]



posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 05:44 PM
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reply to post by Confused and Dazed!
 


Sounds like a pretty interesting story Confused and Dazed. Have you written any posts on your experiences?



posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 05:47 PM
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One thing people forget is we swore an oath to uphold the Constitution not what one man says.



posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 06:17 PM
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Still don't understand how the military is protecting the civilan population here while fighting an illegal war in Iraq.
Still don't understand how the Kent State event wasn't the military opening fire on civilans.
Still don't understand how people here in U.S. who seriously disagree with the gov't and plan a rebellion are crazy. The Constitution says civil disobedience is a responsibility if the gov't veers into what it has become today.




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